Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
... LastLast
  1. #81
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Gen-OT College of Shitposting
    Posts
    20,562
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Only if you don’t know how to design the object and safety features...
    Let me know when you find anyone that can build something to be 100% safe with 100% redundancy in case of a failure (which wouldn't be needed, because the design was 100% perfect!) and if you do find them, let me know if they're available to hire, my workplace is looking for someone like that to cut maintenance costs down to 0 in the plant.

    Good luck!

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Are the main feasibility issues the underground/aboveground vacuum? I would expect that as far as the toughest of the many technological challenges. The financial/practical issues being the nontechnical challenge.
    That's one of them. Plenty of other practical questions like if it will be more cost-effective to use than traditional/high-speed rail, especially since it's largely looking to be used for passenger transportation right now which limits its utility.

    It's big, fancy, shiny, exciting sounding tech. But as with a lot of big, fancy, shiny, exciting sounding tech a lot of the time we're so mystified and amazed by it that we never bother asking whether it serves a meaningful purpose and/or is seriously worth the investment compared to existing technologies or alternatives.

    I keep going back to it, but the Juicero is kinda the thing. It was supposed to "revolutionize" the consumer juice market, with fancy tech to let you control it remotely, automatically stop it from juicing things that had been flagged by the FDA etc. etc. etc. etc.

    When folks finally got their hands on it, it was a joke. It didn't juice anything, it squeezed a package of juice that you purchased. And you could get roughly as much juice out of the package by hand as the 5 ton press (whatever the weight was) in a less time as it was slow as hell.

    I'm not saying this is as bad as the Juicero, which was kinda a transparently awful idea from the get-go. But it's a similar vein of, "More and fancier sounding tech doesn't mean something is actually better."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I have - several times.
    I'm actually trying to find the post or something on the internet about it but can't for some reason.

    https://www.metro-magazine.com/10112...loop-standards

    That's the best I can turn up but doesn't seem to be it?

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I keep going back to it, but the Juicero is kinda the thing.
    I had never heard of the thing, but now I am amazed after a bit of reading - who thought it would ever be necessary?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I had never heard of the thing, but now I am amazed after a bit of reading - who thought it would ever be necessary?
    VC's that throw money at anything with enough buzzwords you tell them about during a game of ultimate frisbee.

  5. #85
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,265
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's one of them. Plenty of other practical questions like if it will be more cost-effective to use than traditional/high-speed rail, especially since it's largely looking to be used for passenger transportation right now which limits its utility.

    It's big, fancy, shiny, exciting sounding tech. But as with a lot of big, fancy, shiny, exciting sounding tech a lot of the time we're so mystified and amazed by it that we never bother asking whether it serves a meaningful purpose and/or is seriously worth the investment compared to existing technologies or alternatives.

    I keep going back to it, but the Juicero is kinda the thing. It was supposed to "revolutionize" the consumer juice market, with fancy tech to let you control it remotely, automatically stop it from juicing things that had been flagged by the FDA etc. etc. etc. etc.

    When folks finally got their hands on it, it was a joke. It didn't juice anything, it squeezed a package of juice that you purchased. And you could get roughly as much juice out of the package by hand as the 5 ton press (whatever the weight was) in a less time as it was slow as hell.

    I'm not saying this is as bad as the Juicero, which was kinda a transparently awful idea from the get-go. But it's a similar vein of, "More and fancier sounding tech doesn't mean something is actually better."
    I had to look it up since you mentioned Juicero again. Hysterical and obvious flop - I love the part where it turned out people could just squeeze the packet themselves. Also the expiration date issue....

    I definitely get the criticism of hype around the Hyperloop being the newest transportation shiny new thing to get behind. I'm absolutely open to the idea that it eventually won't work - and those of you that have suggested it might end up as a modernized maglev seem to be on the right track of the "when this doesn't work out" camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm actually trying to find the post or something on the internet about it but can't for some reason.

    https://www.metro-magazine.com/10112...loop-standards

    That's the best I can turn up but doesn't seem to be it?
    Thanks for finding that. Hopefully other posters who are perpetually confused about total global involvement can find a new hobby to bitch about.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I had never heard of the thing, but now I am amazed after a bit of reading - who thought it would ever be necessary?
    Especially at $400 a pop. Holy shit.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Thanks for finding that. Hopefully other posters who are perpetually confused about total global involvement can find a new hobby to bitch about.
    Except that's not what this is, it's companies in those countries working together to create joint standards (a la USB standards etc.). That's not additional investment from the countries from what I can tell.

  7. #87
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,265
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Except that's not what this is, it's companies in those countries working together to create joint standards (a la USB standards etc.). That's not additional investment from the countries from what I can tell.
    You're right - I didn't mean to phrase it like that was the list of ongoing projects. Sorry about that. I just mean there is great international interest in this project, with several municipalities (in various forms) working on various stages. The kind of work you linked is demonstrative of those ongoing projects.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    What safety features? What happens if there's a fire? What if someone has a heart attack en-route?

    How are you going to ensure the safety of the occupants once some random shooter depressurises the entire loop?

    Please teach us, professor.
    You mean when a random shooter pressurizes the loop? A fire is dealt with like all fires, with a fire extinguisher. What happens when someone has a heart attack on any train that’s en route? Please, explain how any of these questions are complicated...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Let me know when you find anyone that can build something to be 100% safe with 100% redundancy in case of a failure (which wouldn't be needed, because the design was 100% perfect!) and if you do find them, let me know if they're available to hire, my workplace is looking for someone like that to cut maintenance costs down to 0 in the plant.

    Good luck!
    Great! So we’re agreed that it only needs to be as safe as other forms of high speed travel. Glad we’re on the same page that safety isn’t the limiting factor.

  9. #89
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Gen-OT College of Shitposting
    Posts
    20,562
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Great! So we’re agreed that it only needs to be as safe as other forms of high speed travel. Glad we’re on the same page that safety isn’t the limiting factor.
    You're deliberately missing the point that it has more points of failure due to needing to be in a vacuum.

    I can develop a car that's powered by blowing up TNT behind it, and add a bunch of safety features, but it wouldn't change the basic fact that's it'd be inherently less safe than a normal car

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    You're deliberately missing the point that it has more points of failure due to needing to be in a vacuum.

    I can develop a car that's powered by blowing up TNT behind it, and add a bunch of safety features, but it wouldn't change the basic fact that's it'd be inherently less safe than a normal car
    No, it doesn’t have more points of failure than an airplane. It may have a few more than a standard train, but none of them are insurmountable. Or even remotely similar to your silly example.

  11. #91
    I remember watching a video on how this thing was never going to happen, it does have many points of failure, a single hole in the tube will pretty much kill everyone riding a 'tube'. you have probably 100s of miles of exposed tube that is open to pretty much anyone. 100s of miles of temperature differentiation where parts of the tube expand and contract more or less than other parts. yeah its literally a pipe dream that this will ever be safe. all it would take is for someone to shoot a hole in the side of the thing and you have air travelling up that pipe with the same force as a brick wall.

    like in a traditional train, if something happens ahead a long the track, a second train can stop or divert, to avoid it, but in this hyperloop if a breach happens, you're fucked even if you were 20 miles away.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2021-03-04 at 02:47 AM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You mean when a random shooter pressurizes the loop? A fire is dealt with like all fires, with a fire extinguisher. What happens when someone has a heart attack on any train that’s en route? Please, explain how any of these questions are complicated...
    Have you actually seen the Hyperloop before? It's not like your standard train track. If the pod bursts on fire, and you're in it... how are you going to extinguish that flame without passing out from the smoke first? How are going to get out of the pod, in a very small and dark tunnel, to do so... it barely fits the capsule? How is the ambulance going to get fast and hazard-free access to the tunnel itself if it's sealed and up high on a support column? Every minute counts with someone having a heart attack. What if there's another medical emergency, like someone having a seizure? This article goes into depth a little more.

    Didn't see any emergency exits in the plan nor the prototype. How will an emergency exit even work if the entire system is in a near vacuum? These are all engineering challenges that make this system pretty much impractical. It's a death trap. Hell, you haven't even addressed the issue of a random shooter. Do you know what happens when there's a bullet-size hole breach in a system like that. I'll let you steam on that one for a little if you think that isn't so complicated to solve...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    No, it doesn’t have more points of failure than an airplane. It may have a few more than a standard train, but none of them are insurmountable. Or even remotely similar to your silly example.
    I hope to god you're not in charge of building or designing bridges, aircraft, etc

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I have - several times when you've asked previously.
    You're lying and anyone who can search your posts on the subject can see that.

    Your emotional state regarding Musk is entirely relevant - we only have to look at your ridiculous posting history to see you only come out of the woodwork.

    I'm not saying the questions are irrational and hysterical - I'm saying YOU are irrational and hysterical - because you're just blinded by your emotionally based hatred for Musk. It's pathetic. And then to call me a liar...this is why no one takes you seriously. I mean...you can't even read an avatar correctly.
    Wasting your time to dig up my posting history to point-score (the link doesn't even work, great job Sherlock), I mean look how you're reacting to people who are negative about the Hyperloop. It's not just me you're being childish towards.

    Oh sweetie...really? You've been telling us that it might go from a Hyperloop to a maglev construct if the technical issues aren't worked out in the near future. Please link that for us - we'll wait.
    No, we've been telling you from the start that the initial vision and design is just not practical. Not from an engineering standpoint. Not from an economical one.
    Last edited by Fargus; 2021-03-04 at 02:51 AM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerplank View Post
    And?

    An exhibition of an incredibly impractical concept that still isn't transporting anyone... not sure how this is threadworthy. Btw, the idea of a Hyperloop has been around for over a century already.
    BUT Elon smokes weed so hes obv awsome populist megabrain and he talks to bro jogan haha look at me imsosmart

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Wasting your time to dig up my posting history to point-score (the link doesn't even work, great job Sherlock), I mean look how you're reacting to people who are negative about the Hyperloop. It's not just me you're being childish towards.
    And almost two years ago in a previous thread he claimed that Hyperloop was "under construction" in several places.

    In reality it was either tests or just planned for the future.
    The only firm date for actual construction was that HyperloopTT (not Virgin Hyperloop) should have started construction of its first commercial system Q3 2019. Has it? (Originally it was a commercial system - now it seems to be a "prototype" which can mean anything.)

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Thanks for proving my point - the solar roads aren't in a museum because they won't work

    [...]

    Because all those engineers and companies and cities and countries don't know what you know?
    Well he have companies here in Germany that build solar roadways, we have cities paying for them, at least one i know of has been build (a bycicle roadway), it doesn't produce energy, has massive overheating problems and is constantly broken.
    Just because companies and cities are involved doesn't mean it's not nonsense.
    Last edited by Yriel; 2021-03-05 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Forgot a "not" in the last sentance that totally reversed my intended statement.

  16. #96
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    6,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Security checks at airports are needed due to the risk and publicity of an exploding bomb. Saying that it's not needed for a new high speed train in vacuum seems like hubris.
    I'm not a security or risk assessment expert, I'm just comparing operating a Hyperloop to operating a regular railway. Why don't regular trains require any hassle?
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  17. #97
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    CormLand
    Posts
    1,309
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    the subway was invented decades before musk was even born. did you just fall asleep in basic history class when they discussed new york's extensive subway construction in the late 1800's and early 1900's?
    No I just made a good joke in a thread where most people can't see beyond the current week and have an aditude of "if we can't do it now, well never be able to."
    Driving on Sunshine.

    PM for Tesla referral code.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    I'm not a security or risk assessment expert, I'm just comparing operating a Hyperloop to operating a regular railway. Why don't regular trains require any hassle?
    Partially historical reasons and partially due to a good risk assessment. Since energy increases as velocity squared higher speed naturally imply higher risks - i.e. tripling the velocity (as hyped compared to regular bullet trains) almost increases the energy tenfold and energy kills, and a near vacuum is an additional risk factor.
    (And many trains run considerably slower, and thus with less energy.)

    If the new idea is to run them underground that adds other/additional safety considerations - we know how to reduce that risk for existing trains, but that adds a costly infrastructure and the new tunnel-digging ideas by Musk seems to skip those.

    Note that there have been a number of terrorism attacks against trains - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ailway_systems - but not sufficient to take major precautions in most countries compared to the number of daily commuters. However, Hyperloop is a new mode of transportation, so I would expect some extra attention.

    Additionally a similar check for trains as for airplanes would increase the cost and time considerably (someone needs to check everyone), and wouldn't substantially reduce the risk since that would lead to large crowds that terrorists could attack - by placing sarin gas containers or similar stuff in the queue area as in the Tokyo subway attack.

  19. #99
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    6,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Partially historical reasons and partially due to a good risk assessment. Since energy increases as velocity squared higher speed naturally imply higher risks - i.e. tripling the velocity (as hyped compared to regular bullet trains) almost increases the energy tenfold and energy kills, and a near vacuum is an additional risk factor.
    (And many trains run considerably slower, and thus with less energy.)

    If the new idea is to run them underground that adds other/additional safety considerations - we know how to reduce that risk for existing trains, but that adds a costly infrastructure and the new tunnel-digging ideas by Musk seems to skip those.

    Note that there have been a number of terrorism attacks against trains - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ailway_systems - but not sufficient to take major precautions in most countries compared to the number of daily commuters. However, Hyperloop is a new mode of transportation, so I would expect some extra attention.

    Additionally a similar check for trains as for airplanes would increase the cost and time considerably (someone needs to check everyone), and wouldn't substantially reduce the risk since that would lead to large crowds that terrorists could attack - by placing sarin gas containers or similar stuff in the queue area as in the Tokyo subway attack.
    Considering all this would you say security checks would be lessened for Hyperloop as it becomes more common and widespread, or would it remain as a constant element? I'd wager a Hyperloop ticket would already be pricier than a regular train ticket, so they might be able to bump it up even further as much as security infrastructure requires.

    It's just that a large part of Hyperloop's attractiveness is that it is able to take people to places fast, making it less of a big deal to live elsewhere than the city your employment is at. If it's essentially just an alternative to air travel without much improvement to convenience and time-saving then I don't see much point in it, other than perhaps lowering pollution (assuming Hyperloop's construction and operation would pollute less, of course).
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  20. #100
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,265
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    You're lying and anyone who can search your posts on the subject can see that.
    The irony.

    Wasting your time to dig up my posting history to point-score (the link doesn't even work, great job Sherlock), I mean look how you're reacting to people who are negative about the Hyperloop. It's not just me you're being childish towards.
    So you can't even find evidence of your own claims? How hysterically fucking typical of all your posts. Your pathetic attempts to hide your emotional based reactions re Musk are laughable. If you'd even bothered to read this thread you'd see I'm addressing legitimate criticism about the hyperloop - you even linked one and then childishly mocked me - and agreeing with those criticisms. What you fail to understand, at even the most basic level, is that it's you who have a problem with all things Musk - and your Haters-Gonna-Hate Club just keeps on posting emotional rants with zero logic and no real point.

    No, we've been telling you from the start that the initial vision and design is just not practical. Not from an engineering standpoint. Not from an economical one.
    You haven't. Not once. You said it wasn't feasible - which is a different word, in case you're still so confused you don't understand simple english. I know it's tough to go back an look at your own posts, but when you figure it out, you'll see how wrong you've always been.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Well he have companies here in Germany that build solar roadways, we have cities paying for them, at least one i know of has been build (a bycicle roadway), it doesn't produce energy, has massive overheating problems and is constantly broken.
    Just because companies and cities are involved doesn't mean it's nonsense.
    (this is meant in all kindness, without sarcasm - in case it sounds - just fyi)
    So help me out here, you seem to be disagreeing with my premise, but he last line in your post seems to be saying the opposite, that you agree with me. I am guessing that english is not your first language, and I'm not criticizing you at all here, but did you mean for your last sentence to end: "...doesn't mean it's not nonsense."? Bolded/underlined added by me.

    I'm going on the premise that's what you meant - apologies ahead of time if you did not.

    I can't entirely disagree with your point here - even though my position throughout has been that since so many companies/municipalities are working on these projects there must be an inherent legitimacy to it, just by virtue of numbers. They could all be wrong, and the project might not come to fruition - that is true. I still maintain, however, given that so many groups are working on Hyperloop, they must at least believe that it's technically feasible, otherwise they wouldn't have started in the first place.

    Although, in a fit of intellectual honesty, Skylab went up without them knowing how to bring it down. They thought they would figure it out, but they didn't. Crash landing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    And almost two years ago in a previous thread he claimed that Hyperloop was "under construction" in several places.

    In reality it was either tests or just planned for the future.
    The only firm date for actual construction was that HyperloopTT (not Virgin Hyperloop) should have started construction of its first commercial system Q3 2019. Has it? (Originally it was a commercial system - now it seems to be a "prototype" which can mean anything.)
    You two should get a room. I love that your entire ridiculous disagreement with my premise was the phrase "under construction". Seriously, let us know the date, we'll send flowers and a nice serving bowl.

    Would you prefer the term "under development"?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •