Who do you think is the best villain in Warcraft?

[Daws001]

#1. Azshara. Before she was revealed, I just found her mystery and lore very interesting. Also, her BfA animated short was so damn good.

#2 Deathwing. Again, love the lore, how he (and Azshara) rocked Azeroth, and I was really into the Aspects and how he became corrupted.

[Elyiandris]

Kil'jaeden, Azshara and old school deathwing are my favorites.

[Garretdejiko]

Arthas, easlily

Garrosh

the only villain they wrote from scratch and didn't overdo (unless they bring him back this expansion, then cancel this comment)

I mean, the Afterlives: Revendreth video is a strong hint for his comeback

[Zuben]

Arthas, considering the material I'm familiar with. I can't be bothered with audio dramas.

I feel like giving an honorable mention to a second tier villain: Elisande. I loved the Suramar campaign and she was the perfect villain for it. Gul'dan was the devil behind the curtain, sure, but that wasn't apparent until the final steps. Elisande was the face of our opposition, and with Thalyssra as the protagonist it even felt personal.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The Thunder King. Between his voice acting, his boss fight, his area Isle of Thunder and his story, he's the villain I've cared most about. And he was a 1-patch wonder.

Arthas was a Saturday Cartoon villain throughout the leveling experience.

Garrosh was one I did care about, but in the end we didn't get to finish him off.

And the old gods are best when they stay in the shadows. Hope they'll never make us fight one ever again.

[Triceron]

Ner'zhul's never been a chad. The guy needed Arthas to do shit. And afterward, Arthas fucked up his soul. Even in WC2, Ner'Zhul got fucked over by Kil'Jaeden. He's a fuckin moron. Always has been.

He puppetted Arthas' every move, and the canon at rhe time was a merged being.

They retconned this to Arthas taking over the personality for Wrath of the Lich King.

[TheFirstOnes]

He puppetted Arthas' every move, and the canon at rhe time was a merged being.

They retconned this to Arthas taking over the personality for Wrath of the Lich King.

They still were merged throughout Wrath. It's just that Arthas took over the LK as a whole once he basically made Ner'zhul's spirit his submissive bitch.

- - - Updated - - -

Definitely Arthas. I might be a little biased because I started Warcraft with WC3 (and Arthas was a fairly major character for pretty much all of Reign of Chaos/Frozen Throne, aside from the bonus campaigns), but the whole Scourge story was one reason I loved Classic WoW so much.

Also he was a pretty proper villain in Wrath of the Lich King, compared to Illidan in BC. BC was my favorite expansion, and I like Illidan, but he had almost no real presence in the expansion (aside from one "COME GET IT SON" zone yell in Shadowmoon Valley, if I remember right) aside from his actual encounter in Black Temple. Then in Wrath of the Lich King, we have Arthas in our faces mocking us, taunting us, actually stepping in to slow us down a couple of times, reminding us that he is indeed the Big Bad of the expansion, etc, every step of the way from 70-80.

Illidan also wasn't the main antagonist of TBC. This is a common misconception people have, and I understand why tbh. But the main and final antagonist was Kil'Jaeden.

- - - Updated - - -

#1. Azshara. Before she was revealed, I just found her mystery and lore very interesting. Also, her BfA animated short was so damn good.

#2 Deathwing. Again, love the lore, how he (and Azshara) rocked Azeroth, and I was really into the Aspects and how he became corrupted.

Funny how N'Zoth's 2 main champions are among your favorite Villains...

But not N'Zoth himself. Makes sense. Fuck 8.3.

- - - Updated - - -

The Thunder King. Between his voice acting, his boss fight, his area Isle of Thunder and his story, he's the villain I've cared most about. And he was a 1-patch wonder.

Arthas was a Saturday Cartoon villain throughout the leveling experience.

Garrosh was one I did care about, but in the end we didn't get to finish him off.

And the old gods are best when they stay in the shadows. Hope they'll never make us fight one ever again.

Old Gods suck.

[Triceron]

They still were merged throughout Wrath. It's just that Arthas took over the LK as a whole once he basically made Ner'zhul's spirit his submissive bitch.

Yeah, that was a retcon made specifically for wrath.

There were no separate personalities once they were merged. The Devs at the time of Warcraft 3 TFT said there was only one personality, one entity left from the merge.

Christie Golden retconned this in the Arthas novel, making it so Arthas 'battled' Ner'zhul and eventually came out as the dominant personality. That wasn't what originally happened, this was all added after and changed. Ner'zhul had _always_ been the Lich King and would have continued to be until the changes introduced around the time of Wrath.

That was the whole point of my post. Ner'zhul was the master all up until the very moment they introduced the Lich King back into WoW, and they did so conveniently by making Arthas the dominant personality even though they specifically outlined that the two were one (literally even says so in the cinematic when Arthas first puts on the Helmet)

From Wowpedia -

There has been a debate in some areas of the Warcraft community as to what exactly happened when Arthas and Ner'zhul merged.

When asked, "What's the truth about the new Lich King?", Chris Metzen replied: "Arthas and Ner'zhul have become a perfect fusion of one being - Arthas' personality and body with Ner'zhul's wisdom, experience, power and EVIL."[citation needed]

On the official forums, CM Bornakk made the following statement in response to the question "Who is the Lich King?":

17. Re: Who is the Lich King? | 2007-11-27 by Bornakk | Original link:
Before Arthas donned the Lich King's armor, it was the spirit of the former Orc Shaman Ner'zhul whose soul was attached to the armor and then imprisoned (physically) inside the Frozen Throne. Now Arthas and Ner'zhul's spirit are one and together they are the Lich King.

What Christie and the Wrath team did was a retcon, and this is pretty much explained through Blizzard devs throughout and after Wrath.

A Twitter chat from early 2010 suggested Ner'zhul's story was not over:

Q. Will Ner'zhul appear at any point in 3.3 or the near future?
A. Well, he is a chunk of the Lich King now. But if you mean will he appear as an orc, we're not ready to tell his story just yet. We have a lot of stories left to tell, but his is a good one.[72]

On the official forums, CM Crygil made the following statement in response to a claim that Arthas "erased" Ner'zhul upon merging with him (at the end of The Frozen Throne):

He didn't actually erase the persona of Ner'zhul. In point of fact, these two beings merged to make up what was collectively known as "The Lich King".[73]

Subsequently, the following was stated by Chris Metzen at a BlizzCon 2010 lore panel:

Q. I have a question regarding the storyline of Ner'zhul: is he finished, or what's going on with that?
A. "Yes. Yeah, Ner'zhul is done. He served us well in that capacity, but really the Lich King idea... really has the ultimate expression, you know, as Arthas or whatever. Ner'zhul's done."[74]

As I said, they completely sidelined Ner'zhul as a character and *made him a bitch*. It wasn't that he was one, it's that they put him in that position purposefully to push Arthas up since he was the face of the game, the main character everyone loved and hated. Ner'zhul was supposed to be the Palpatine of Warcraft, but he got Snoked instead.

[TheFirstOnes]

True. But the Legion and Zovaal are built different.

[Danuel]

Orc dude from Ragefire chasm!

[Thelxi]

Jaina .

[shise]

Sargeras. Although he is more than that.

[Aresk]

I've always like Kil'jaeden as the mastermind, manipulating others to accomplish his aims.

For straight-up evil, Gul'dan was always fun.

But if I were to go with overall, Illidan. He unapologetically gets away with every bad thing he does just because he finds a way of making himself useful and then leaving before anyone remembers to hold him responsible.

[Niter]

I wish Blizzard would develop the story before developing the game, and that they didn't try to answer all questions. The best 'new lore' Warcraft has is in Pandaria. Everything else stemmed from Warcraft 3 and books from around that era.

Think about it: the Titans were once very mysterious, so everything we uncovered felt special. The Old Gods were a threat from the past, but have been mostly underutilised, with BfA being so ridiculous that Sylvanas felt more like a threat than N'zoth. C'thun and Yogg were not at their full power, they were still in a weaker state, but managed to mess everything up so much more than N'zoth.

Cataclysm didn't feel like 'the Deathwing expansion'. He wasn't involved enough, and he was never developed enough in-game. He was just another crazy dragon. I'd wager that Ragnaros was more popular.

Azshara was a joke.

The Jailer and whoever and the edgy 'Shadow Lords' or whatever don't quite fit. In a way, it feels like the kind of threat that the Titans should be in charge of, not mortals from Azeroth. If the Jailer dies by the hands of the 'heroes', then calling the characters 'hero' or 'champion' is ridiculous, as they should become like a central position in a religion, or praised so much more than any other hero ever. They could claim to be Azeroth Emperors and people would revere them as deities of some sort.

Even the Legion, from an all-mighty menacing threat, getting even Argus to fight us, still got beaten and, funnily enough, it cost us nothing after that botched Broken Shore scenarion.

That's why the only possible answers here are Nerzhul, Garrosh and Lei-shen. To me, Lich King Arthas is Nerzhul, Nerzhul is Arthas and both are the Lich King as a single entity. No retcon will change that. And he's got the best sidekick ever! Kelthuzad is great.

[Tyrannica]

UPD. I knew that people would talk about Arthas, although I do not understand what is special about him. He's really chrismatic (only thanks to his voice acting) and has a decent design (typical Dark Lord), but otherwise his story is just the story of Darth Vader.

The best Villain has to be charismatic, Joker or Darth Vader it does not matter. KJ = nobody really cares. Just an Eredar(Spacegoat that got corrupted), not even true demonic. He is nothing special i am afraid.

Just compare him with Sargeras...nothing makes sense. He is just an bootlicker and underling and that was well portrayed in legion, that said he had some potential still in TBC's Sunwell. He was bigger and more powerful and dared to question Sargera's absolute rule over the legion.(but how so as spacegoat?)

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, to understand Arthas = best Villain you have to play WC3 and its expansion.

In WoW he was only good portrayed in the intro cinematic and last boss fight in ICC, maybe death knight intro too.

But 2 things:

He seems to look a bit goofy with that helmet on his head at all times, in wc3 he has no helmet.

In wc3 despite beeing just an Death Knight with limited powers - he seemed to have more personal success in what he was doing(and seemingly higher kill rate in murdering famous people)

[Rhlor]

nzoth was a great villain a lot of the problems we see throughout the game is his fault. how they ended up bfa was garbage

[Unlimited Power]

Probably Garrosh in my opinion. The voice acting really helped sell the character. Patrick Seitz really did an excellent job on that.

[Shadowferal]

Arthas comparison to Darth Vader...? Okay. This is bad? It's a favorable comparison.

[Itisamuh]

Gul'dan...

[Houle]

Yeah, that was a retcon made specifically for wrath.

There were no separate personalities once they were merged. The Devs at the time of Warcraft 3 TFT said there was only one personality, one entity left from the merge.

Christie Golden retconned this in the Arthas novel, making it so Arthas 'battled' Ner'zhul and eventually came out as the dominant personality. That wasn't what originally happened, this was all added after and changed. Ner'zhul had _always_ been the Lich King and would have continued to be until the changes introduced around the time of Wrath.

That was the whole point of my post. Ner'zhul was the master all up until the very moment they introduced the Lich King back into WoW, and they did so conveniently by making Arthas the dominant personality even though they specifically outlined that the two were one (literally even says so in the cinematic when Arthas first puts on the Helmet)

From Wowpedia -




What Christie and the Wrath team did was a retcon, and this is pretty much explained through Blizzard devs throughout and after Wrath.





As I said, they completely sidelined Ner'zhul as a character and *made him a bitch*. It wasn't that he was one, it's that they put him in that position purposefully to push Arthas up since he was the face of the game, the main character everyone loved and hated. Ner'zhul was supposed to be the Palpatine of Warcraft, but he got Snoked instead.

damn, havent seen this explained so thoroughly in a long time, good job
next time somebody needs to hear this ill just copy this post.