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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I agree, that it's tech of future, but it doesn't mean, we shouldn't start trying. At least on something trivial one, like 2D games. Of course client can be optimized to be semi-thin, like simulating scrolling background and sprites without streaming them every frame. But it would increase botting threat.
    Botting will stay either way. The most common bot is the screenreading type. Its much easier to write than one that injects itself into the game for simple things like fishing bots. I think endgame is ML based bots that will be undetectable because you can run them on external hardware and just pass the input. Theres no counterplay against that outside perhaps statistical behaviour analysis.

  2. #102
    Stood in the Fire Valette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittahsmash View Post
    -snip-
    Oh I see. Thanks for educating me. I personally like ffxiv's approach better, that they try to keep the general public from having the story spoiled. Gave patch days a much bigger community feel in my eyes. Like we were all logging on and experiencing the story together.

  3. #103
    Except wow is doing fine. It may not fit your personal definition of an MMORPG that you conjured in your head but it still is an mmorpg anyway.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    Botting will stay either way. The most common bot is the screenreading type. Its much easier to write than one that injects itself into the game for simple things like fishing bots. I think endgame is ML based bots that will be undetectable because you can run them on external hardware and just pass the input. Theres no counterplay against that outside perhaps statistical behaviour analysis.
    If botting isn't problem, then some optimizations could be done. Overall it's better to simply make client thin streaming one, because it would be universal. Because all that is needed - video and input support, every browser has now. But it would be less optimal. Of course something VNC/RDP-like would be more optimal, but it would complicate things. And something like SNES emulator would be super-optimal, but I'm not even sure, if it would bring some benefits and won't be exactly the same thik game client, we have now.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    WoW is no longer an MMORPG technically, it's more a glorified lobby with instanced content to do. Matchmaking is almost fully automated. No doubt that in the future, more stuff will get automated matchmaking. Such as arena and perhaps normal to heroic raid difficulty.

    And the other MMORPG's that come out, are too scared to innovate or adress the elephant in the room:

    Datamining.

    You see, the reason why World of Warcraft felt so beloved in our hearts was because we didn't have much information about the game during that time. We had to explore, we didn't have a wiki to say which areas were useful to go into. We just saw a cool tower and we felt the need to explore.
    Right now, tons and tons of people just datamine every little bit of information available in the game before it can even reach live at some point and putting that all into a wiki. Theorycrafting it to death as a result. It's impossible for a game to have any secrets that the community has to work towards discovering.
    MMORPG's are community driven, or atleast they should be. Nowadays, Blizzard artificially creates group content. Most of the players we encounter, we won't see again. Everything's phased or instanced. "WORLD" of warcraft, but most of the shit is phased/instanced, ironically.

    Blizzard does not want the community to ever interact with eachother, unless it's at a high end level. Like mythic raiding. Most of the game is easily soloable thanks to automatic matchmaking, or the content being nihil or easy to complete that you don't need a group for it. (looking at you old raids)

    And yes, a part of it is to blame with Blizzard still catering to E-sports and mythic raiders.
    There is literally no reason to venture out into the world if you don't care about "MOUNTS, MOGS AND CHEEVOS". Once you get past a certain point of Ilvl, WQs become obsolete to do. Aswell as profession gear and the rest of the "world content".

    Because ofcourse, if you had to go out and farm rep, let's say for an enchant on your gear that would boost your powerlevel, Mythic or high end players would complain they had to do said content and it would get datamined and put up on WoWhead for all to see anyway. So what's the point of adding such stuff in the first place?

    Blizzard let WoWhead have too much influence on the game. There's no adventure or sense of exploration. No myths or legends. It's all datamined and put up on WoWhead. Player's don't need to interact with eachother anymore. They no longer need to ask eachother for help.

    MMORPG's are just doomed to fail at this point.
    Pretty bad take if you ask me

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Yep. I had finally gotten to the point where I was exasperated with WoW's insistence that the best content and rewards remain locked behind manual grouping in (at Mythic) extremely difficult raids. And then I discovered STO where the only limits to my ability to participate in content and receive the best "gear" in the game involved just playing the game as casually or intently as I desired. I queue for a TFO and literally am in the group content seconds later and it's not like the harder queues (advanced and elite) award better gear ... just more of the things that I can get by running Normal.

    And I found it has a dedicated and very decently sized playerbase such that I'm playing around other people constantly.

    That said, I still somewhat enjoy retail WoW when I play it the way that suits me and am really enjoying the Classic leveling journey.
    I quit retail and switched over to my Paladin in classic. I stopped playing him long ago and he was level 45. Now im lvl 52 and im just enjoying the leveling. Taking my time with it. Doing quests here and there, maybe the odd dungeon if I have the time(rarely do). It feels better just playing classic than retail tbh.

  7. #107
    Datamining happens in every game, the main difference between MMO and non-MMO datamining is, that in a MMO people are gonna spoil and expect you to know everything beforehand, whereas in a Singleplayer game you can choose to spoil yourself.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    Datamining happens in every game, the main difference between MMO and non-MMO datamining is, that in a MMO people are gonna spoil and expect you to know everything beforehand, whereas in a Singleplayer game you can choose to spoil yourself.
    Yeah, I'm still too scared to see on YouTube, how much more circular saw hell should I crawl through in order to get to true ending in Hollow Knight. I've got to a point, where I need to get though very long part without check points.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    MMORPG's do not survive in this era of gaming
    I think you mean MMORPG's that are a just a cheap copy of WoW without innovating anything do not survive in this era of gaming

  10. #110
    Watch the lazy peons latest video about the state of mmo's including wow he makes some good points and it does look like shit.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    However, there's something to be said about the RPG parts in wow. Without a doubt, wow is still and MMO, but the RPG elements have been smoothed over and devolved over time to a point that there is little to no choices you can make on how you build your char, all you do is pick a spec and that's about it, pick the correct talents, stick to the correct stat(s), which is all in a guide.
    By and large I agree, though covenants were at least an attempt to counter that.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    If botting isn't problem, then some optimizations could be done. Overall it's better to simply make client thin streaming one, because it would be universal. Because all that is needed - video and input support, every browser has now. But it would be less optimal. Of course something VNC/RDP-like would be more optimal, but it would complicate things. And something like SNES emulator would be super-optimal, but I'm not even sure, if it would bring some benefits and won't be exactly the same thik game client, we have now.
    Dont get where the snes emulator comes in. The closest thing to console emulation for pc gaming is using a VM to run windows on a linux host.

  13. #113
    So is this a glorified: "I hate LFR/LFG"-Thread? It seems so.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    Botting will stay either way. The most common bot is the screenreading type. Its much easier to write than one that injects itself into the game for simple things like fishing bots. I think endgame is ML based bots that will be undetectable because you can run them on external hardware and just pass the input. Theres no counterplay against that outside perhaps statistical behaviour analysis.
    Blizzard already does that.

  15. #115
    MMORPGS is the single gaming genre that has the most potential out of any. It can be on top of all games, and be the king like it used to be.

    the fact that mmorpgs are dying is not beucase of the genre it self. it is the fault of the games being bad

    and guys, stop acting smart about wow technically being an mmo. we all know yes its technically an mmo, what we mean is that is no longer recognizeable as the mmo it used to be, and has strayed away from what made mmos good in the first place, thats why we say it...

    obvsiously people still play, but its not on top of all games, so in relation to others, its dying

    as for dataming, there are ways to design around it.
    Last edited by lolmmofuture; 2021-03-03 at 11:08 AM.

  16. #116
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    The world part feels like it's only there to get you ready to go into instanced content. If you don't want to do instanced content there is hardly anything left for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    And yes, a part of it is to blame with Blizzard still catering to E-sports.
    This is imo the biggest problem with current WoW, it feels like the rest of the game doesn't even matter to them anymore.
    Subarashii chin chin mono
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  17. #117
    You have to make sacrifices. You can't design the perfect game.

    With MMOs you have to sacrifice the competitive aspect in exchange for a grand scale game with lots of things going on.

    Blizzard wants to design an e-sport so MMO aspects take a backseat.

    Just take a look at vanilla vs SL design. In vanilla you reach the level cap and you're free. There are things you can do but they are never shoved in your face as THE thing to do. You can make gold. You can level alts. You can raid. You can just PvP. You can RP. All of those playstyles are valid.

    SL has seasonal content overload and Blizzard is constantly yelling in your face "well, if you aren't doing M+, raiding or PvP you're not engaged in any of our endgame systems and you're going to miss out on all of these sick FOMO transmogs and achievements. Git gud, skrub". Even goldmaking has become a means to an end to buy boosts for said seasonal FOMO cosmetics.
    Last edited by Wilfire; 2021-03-03 at 11:11 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Thes View Post
    Blizzard already does that.
    Sure, problem is everyone knows that and the better the bots get, the closer they look to real people which makes filtering them out increasingly harder.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    You have to make sacrifices. You can't design the perfect game.

    With MMOs you have to sacrifice the competitive aspect in exchange for a grand scale game with lots of things going on.

    Blizzard wants to design an e-sport so MMO aspects take a backseat.

    Just take a look at vanilla vs SL design. In vanilla you reach the level cap and you're free. There are things you can do but they are never shoved in your face as THE thing to do. You can make gold. You can level alts. You can raid. You can just PvP. You can RP. All of those playstyles are valid.

    SL has seasonal content overload and Blizzard is constantly yelling in your face "well, if you aren't doing M+, raiding or PvP you're not engaged in any of our endgame systems and you're going to miss out on all of these sick FOMO transmogs and achievements. Git gud, skrub". Even goldmaking has become a means to an end to buy boosts for said seasonal FOMO cosmetics.
    i agree, but this is a wow problem, not an mmo problem

    wow is the one thats fking it up

  20. #120
    The Lightbringer GKLeatherCraft's Avatar
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    Oh look, someone else who doesn't know what "Technically" means, Rubbish thread OP MMORPG's are doing just fine.

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