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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    The key for encryption would come from the server only when the event/quest is triggered, you dont need to decrypt everything to run the game. Makes it safe against mining until a player actually already plays the content. As for beta testing do you really need to test new content that runs on same engine? They should just release some of only tested internally.

    If you consider beta testing leaks then you already suffer again from streamers & co releasing information ahead. They will create a meta regardless of cloud or not before its even out.
    Looks like there are technical limitations. May be decryption decreases loading bandwidth or something. And individual files can't be encrypted outside of very rare exceptions, such as cinematics and pets. Due to some reasons Blizzard don't like to change game data between patches. May be because they can't rely on spare free space on your disk to hold both encrypted and decrypted files at the same time.

    And in case of cloud gaming developers can actually add content without even noticing players. For example they can add new drop with completely new model to some mob and you will never know, that it exists, till it won't actually drop to somebody. Imagine, that you log in some day and you see something completely new! No patches, no anything. 100% surprise.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-03-03 at 08:33 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  2. #82
    I like how this thread really points out how many "MMO fans" ONLY play WoW and have no idea about other MMO or how well they're doing.

    And how often they're weirdly aggressive about how much "better" WoW is than any competition. Its a weird mix of funny and sad.
    Last edited by Toppy; 2021-03-03 at 08:46 AM.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Looks like there are technical limitations. May be decryption decreases loading bandwidth or something. And individual files can't be encrypted outside of very rare exceptions, such as cinematics and pets. Due to some reasons Blizzard don't like to change game data between patches. May be because they can't rely on spare free space on your disk to hold both encrypted and decrypted files at the same time.

    And in case of cloud gaming developers can actually add content without even noticing players. For example they can add new drop with completely new model to some mob and you will never know, that it exists, till it won't actually drop to somebody. Imagine, that you log in some day and you see something completely new! No patches, no anything. 100% surprise.
    There are ciphers that even your smartphone can handle. Its just a matter if devs know and can use the tech correctly. Gamedev coders sadly tend to be bad cause the good guys go elsewhere for better pay and less crunch insanity. I.E. gta5 was just fixed by a private coder reducing load time by 70% cause native code was that bad and thats a AAA studio.

    As for new drops - you can do this without patching too. Just download it dynamically when it happens. A model is under 10mb. You can load that amount instant.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Once you start consciously going to wowhead or MMO-Champ to find the "best" talent or what's coming next, the game loses its luster and surprise. There's nothing new to discover because it already exists.

    The solution would be to cease and desist every guide website that datamines content, but Blizzard won't for obvious reasons.
    or dont go to those websites...
    world doesnt have to change just bcs you have no willpower...

  5. #85
    So first it was the story not being realistic enough, now the game is no longer an MMO and Datamining is the problem. What is gonna be the issue you need validated tomorrow?

    We get it. You hate the game. Go and find something else to play.

    I swear people are paid to open these threads, probably by EA. Stop playing MMOs, come play FIFA 2037!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    The datamining element if definitely a problem. 3rd party sites ruin games in ways people don't really think about. Once you start consciously going to wowhead or MMO-Champ to find the "best" talent or what's coming next, the game loses its luster and surprise. There's nothing new to discover because it already exists.

    The solution would be to cease and desist every guide website that datamines content, but Blizzard won't for obvious reasons.
    Nonesense. If we didn't have WoWhead to tell us which talent is best we would have other avenues to get that info. SWTOR was notoriously anti-addon, did not allow and denounced data-mining and still there was a website with guides (good old Dulfy) and if there is no website then there are forums and if you forbid these then people will use ingame chat.

    The problem is not that the information is there, the problem is that people assume that if they pick the right Talents of a website they will do the same damage/healing as a world first raider, but that is just not the case. Yes picking the right Talent for the right situation is important, but if you do not have the skill to make the most of your class it's pointless.
    And while you can usually rely on the those guides to be acurate you need to make your own choices still. Not every Talent works for every player. And a guide can not tell you every interaction between Talents and mechanics. It's a skill one aquires after playing a class for a while and learning the content.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    or dont go to those websites...
    world doesnt have to change just bcs you have no willpower...
    Its a compulsory move. If there is a meta you have to play. If nobody knows the meta you dont have to play it.
    Its like education. When nobody had it you could get a job easily without even finishing high school. Now that everyone gets a degree you need a degree too.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    There are ciphers that even your smartphone can handle. Its just a matter if devs know and can use the tech correctly. Gamedev coders sadly tend to be bad cause the good guys go elsewhere for better pay and less crunch insanity. I.E. gta5 was just fixed by a private coder reducing load time by 70% cause native code was that bad and thats a AAA studio.

    As for new drops - you can do this without patching too. Just download it dynamically when it happens. A model is under 10mb. You can load that amount instant.
    Devs don't like to do things on a fly and that's for reason, I guess. For example Blizzard use that pre-baked mega-file tech, that maps 1Gb parts into RAM via file-mapping tech. This tech allows OS to control, what should be loaded and unloaded by itself. Loading and decrypting things dynamically would brake this tech.

    Overall, cloud gaming - is ultimate solution of this problem. It solves everything at once. You can play any game on any device, at any moment without even loading hundreds of gigabytes of data.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Devs don't like to do things on a fly and that's for reason, I guess. For example Blizzard use that pre-baked mega-file tech, that maps 1Gb parts into RAM via file-mapping tech. This tech allows OS to control, what should be loaded and unloaded by itself. Loading and decrypting things dynamically would brake this tech.

    Overall, cloud gaming - is ultimate solution of this problem. It solves everything at once. You can play any game on any device, at any moment without even loading hundreds of gigabytes of data.
    Do you have anything to back this up? You dont need to decrypt a model to know where it belongs and when it should be loaded.
    Cloud gaming is just twitch streaming with input control. It relies on connection quality likewise. If your connection is bad its even worse because it becomes unplayable.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    Do you have anything to back this up? You dont need to decrypt a model to know where it belongs and when it should be loaded.
    Cloud gaming is just twitch streaming with input control. It relies on connection quality likewise. If your connection is bad its even worse because it becomes unplayable.
    Don't we live in 5G era?

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Don't we live in 5G era?
    5g solves overcrowding from to many users reducing bandwidth and increasing interference on same frequency due to everyone using radial antenna. It wont fix the fundamental issues of wireless transmission. Infact its harder to implement correctly than the old tech.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by d00dles View Post
    We also has leaks dating as early as WotLK, the peak of WoW. We had leaks on this very forum about the expansion.
    thanks for the nostalgia

    it's funny how people were excited about siege weapons and a shitty BG
    no way i would believe this leak with todays mindset
    Shadowlands is real world
    The Maw is China
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    5g solves overcrowding from to many users reducing bandwidth and increasing interference on same frequency due to everyone using radial antenna. It wont fix the fundamental issues of wireless transmission. Infact its harder to implement correctly than the old tech.
    I agree, that it's tech of future, but it doesn't mean, we shouldn't start trying. At least on something trivial one, like 2D games. Of course client can be optimized to be semi-thin, like simulating scrolling background and sprites without streaming them every frame. But it would increase botting threat.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I agree, that it's tech of future, but it doesn't mean, we shouldn't start trying. At least on something trivial one, like 2D games. Of course client can be optimized to be semi-thin, like simulating scrolling background and sprites without streaming them every frame. But it would increase botting threat.
    Botting will stay either way. The most common bot is the screenreading type. Its much easier to write than one that injects itself into the game for simple things like fishing bots. I think endgame is ML based bots that will be undetectable because you can run them on external hardware and just pass the input. Theres no counterplay against that outside perhaps statistical behaviour analysis.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittahsmash View Post
    -snip-
    Oh I see. Thanks for educating me. I personally like ffxiv's approach better, that they try to keep the general public from having the story spoiled. Gave patch days a much bigger community feel in my eyes. Like we were all logging on and experiencing the story together.

  15. #95
    Except wow is doing fine. It may not fit your personal definition of an MMORPG that you conjured in your head but it still is an mmorpg anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    Botting will stay either way. The most common bot is the screenreading type. Its much easier to write than one that injects itself into the game for simple things like fishing bots. I think endgame is ML based bots that will be undetectable because you can run them on external hardware and just pass the input. Theres no counterplay against that outside perhaps statistical behaviour analysis.
    If botting isn't problem, then some optimizations could be done. Overall it's better to simply make client thin streaming one, because it would be universal. Because all that is needed - video and input support, every browser has now. But it would be less optimal. Of course something VNC/RDP-like would be more optimal, but it would complicate things. And something like SNES emulator would be super-optimal, but I'm not even sure, if it would bring some benefits and won't be exactly the same thik game client, we have now.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-03-03 at 09:57 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    WoW is no longer an MMORPG technically, it's more a glorified lobby with instanced content to do. Matchmaking is almost fully automated. No doubt that in the future, more stuff will get automated matchmaking. Such as arena and perhaps normal to heroic raid difficulty.

    And the other MMORPG's that come out, are too scared to innovate or adress the elephant in the room:

    Datamining.

    You see, the reason why World of Warcraft felt so beloved in our hearts was because we didn't have much information about the game during that time. We had to explore, we didn't have a wiki to say which areas were useful to go into. We just saw a cool tower and we felt the need to explore.
    Right now, tons and tons of people just datamine every little bit of information available in the game before it can even reach live at some point and putting that all into a wiki. Theorycrafting it to death as a result. It's impossible for a game to have any secrets that the community has to work towards discovering.
    MMORPG's are community driven, or atleast they should be. Nowadays, Blizzard artificially creates group content. Most of the players we encounter, we won't see again. Everything's phased or instanced. "WORLD" of warcraft, but most of the shit is phased/instanced, ironically.

    Blizzard does not want the community to ever interact with eachother, unless it's at a high end level. Like mythic raiding. Most of the game is easily soloable thanks to automatic matchmaking, or the content being nihil or easy to complete that you don't need a group for it. (looking at you old raids)

    And yes, a part of it is to blame with Blizzard still catering to E-sports and mythic raiders.
    There is literally no reason to venture out into the world if you don't care about "MOUNTS, MOGS AND CHEEVOS". Once you get past a certain point of Ilvl, WQs become obsolete to do. Aswell as profession gear and the rest of the "world content".

    Because ofcourse, if you had to go out and farm rep, let's say for an enchant on your gear that would boost your powerlevel, Mythic or high end players would complain they had to do said content and it would get datamined and put up on WoWhead for all to see anyway. So what's the point of adding such stuff in the first place?

    Blizzard let WoWhead have too much influence on the game. There's no adventure or sense of exploration. No myths or legends. It's all datamined and put up on WoWhead. Player's don't need to interact with eachother anymore. They no longer need to ask eachother for help.

    MMORPG's are just doomed to fail at this point.
    Pretty bad take if you ask me

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Yep. I had finally gotten to the point where I was exasperated with WoW's insistence that the best content and rewards remain locked behind manual grouping in (at Mythic) extremely difficult raids. And then I discovered STO where the only limits to my ability to participate in content and receive the best "gear" in the game involved just playing the game as casually or intently as I desired. I queue for a TFO and literally am in the group content seconds later and it's not like the harder queues (advanced and elite) award better gear ... just more of the things that I can get by running Normal.

    And I found it has a dedicated and very decently sized playerbase such that I'm playing around other people constantly.

    That said, I still somewhat enjoy retail WoW when I play it the way that suits me and am really enjoying the Classic leveling journey.
    I quit retail and switched over to my Paladin in classic. I stopped playing him long ago and he was level 45. Now im lvl 52 and im just enjoying the leveling. Taking my time with it. Doing quests here and there, maybe the odd dungeon if I have the time(rarely do). It feels better just playing classic than retail tbh.

  19. #99
    Datamining happens in every game, the main difference between MMO and non-MMO datamining is, that in a MMO people are gonna spoil and expect you to know everything beforehand, whereas in a Singleplayer game you can choose to spoil yourself.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    Datamining happens in every game, the main difference between MMO and non-MMO datamining is, that in a MMO people are gonna spoil and expect you to know everything beforehand, whereas in a Singleplayer game you can choose to spoil yourself.
    Yeah, I'm still too scared to see on YouTube, how much more circular saw hell should I crawl through in order to get to true ending in Hollow Knight. I've got to a point, where I need to get though very long part without check points.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-03-03 at 10:13 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

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