What about TBC do you think people will be most surprised by?

[Heathy]

it'll depend on the healer and the tank ofc, I do actually remember the heroic mobs hitting hard, for example, the packs of mobs in slave pens that patrol around at the start, any one remember those collectively gibbing tanks? i do. underbog heroic, the twin giants, kinda remember that being untankable at the start, one of them had to be kited. and so on and so forth there are various wipey pulls. but the tuning of the heroics at the start was brutal compared to the gear most ppl had, t3 might make it a bit less one tappy, but I still think there are going to be packs of mobs that will simply one shot the tank if you try to tank them all. at least until you have t5 and the armor value to mitigate a bigger % of the physical damage.

mobs in steam vaults for example, I remember some of those patrols being OP, the ethereals in mana tombs hit exceptionally hard for some reason, low geared tanks could die easily to these mobs without CC you get pummelled.

compared to classic, you don't get one shotted in dungeons, you would have to ass pull a whole pack of mobs, if you simply aggro a single mob, or several non-elites you can survive easily enough no matter what class you are. but in heroics, if you pull aggro you'll probably die. thats the difference. if you aren't the tank you'll get one shotted by most of the mobs in heroics. you might survive a swing or two but if they crit you're dead.

[Kralljin]

You arent going to need to

If we're getting pre nerf dungeons (which i think is likely considering the same is true for raids), then that's going to be unlikely for the sole reason that not every Tank is a Protpally.

Requirement to use CC has basically two determining factors
1. Your tank takes too much damage
2. Your tank is unable to generate enough AoE threat

With the pre nerf dungeons, i think that criteria is likely to be met, workarounds such as defensive CD's is unlikely in TBC because most CD's are nonexistant or have a far too long CD to be used consistently.
Kiting would be another option, but kiting in some of those small space areas that a lot of TBC dungeons have is going to be difficult, not even mentioning that AoE slows aren't as common.
Most tanks also obviously lack the tools to keep threat while they kite and struggle to get away from mobs in the first place.

I think however that especially 2. will be a huge factor why people won't be able to get around CC.
In Classic you can just use a Dps Warrior as substitute tank because the incoming damage is so low that a Warrior simply uses Cleave / Whirlwind to keep threat, that's unlikely to continue in TBC, at least on large packs.
And a prot specced won't generate the same threat as an offtank Warrior.
It doesn't matter if you can theoretically heal the incoming damage on the tank when the tank is unable to keep aggro of 4+ mobs, which then proceed to go after the dps or even healers.

That's why Prot pallies will be very popular in TBC, but for the reason that Feral and Warrior tanks also exists, you're going to use CC on some packs simply because those aren't able to generate enough threat on 4+ targets without any of them going after a healer or dps.

A huge issue is also that a lot of specs are unable to AoE dps, if your dps are Shadow, Rogue and Hunter. (which is actually not a terrible setup for heroics)..what's the benefit of AoE'ing other than being a huge pain for the Tank / healer?
Those specs can't AoE, hence the actual benefit is miniscule.
I suspect some people will pull off a form of spellcleave in TBC as well, but it will require a specific setup that naturally not everybody will be playing because they the classes capable of AoE is limited and only one tank is able to properly AoE tank anyway.

[Lorgran]

I think the thing that will surprise people the most is how boring tBC is. It is one of the worst expansions ever made.

[hulkgor]

I think the thing that will surprise people the most is how boring tBC is. It is one of the worst expansions ever made.

1/10 for the shit stirring effort. low quality bait.

I do have to say that if this is one of your 7~ posts per year, i'm disappointed.

[Lorgran]

1/10 for the shit stirring effort. low quality bait..

I'm sorry if your efeels got hurt, but they apparently got in the way for facts

[hulkgor]

I'm sorry if your efeels got hurt, but they apparently got in the way for facts

Maybe look up the definition of fact?

[sil3ntearth]

That blade's edge still sucks.

[Molvonos]

Hard AF raids. People mocked Classic raids but in reality AQ40/Naxx were close to impossible without world buffs. This time around we don't have world buffs so we'll see only <1% clearing Sunwell again.

Lol, my old guild must have been god damned geniuses then, because we cleared AQ40 and Naxx without world buffs.

The fact they disappeared when you died made them a marginal boost at best and nothing that could ever be relied on.

Sounds like you were in a bad guild.

[ClassicPeon]

If we're getting pre nerf dungeons (which i think is likely considering the same is true for raids), then that's going to be unlikely for the sole reason that not every Tank is a Protpally.

Requirement to use CC has basically two determining factors
1. Your tank takes too much damage
2. Your tank is unable to generate enough AoE threat

With the pre nerf dungeons, i think that criteria is likely to be met, workarounds such as defensive CD's is unlikely in TBC because most CD's are nonexistant or have a far too long CD to be used consistently.
Kiting would be another option, but kiting in some of those small space areas that a lot of TBC dungeons have is going to be difficult, not even mentioning that AoE slows aren't as common.
Most tanks also obviously lack the tools to keep threat while they kite and struggle to get away from mobs in the first place.

I think however that especially 2. will be a huge factor why people won't be able to get around CC.
In Classic you can just use a Dps Warrior as substitute tank because the incoming damage is so low that a Warrior simply uses Cleave / Whirlwind to keep threat, that's unlikely to continue in TBC, at least on large packs.
And a prot specced won't generate the same threat as an offtank Warrior.
It doesn't matter if you can theoretically heal the incoming damage on the tank when the tank is unable to keep aggro of 4+ mobs, which then proceed to go after the dps or even healers.

That's why Prot pallies will be very popular in TBC, but for the reason that Feral and Warrior tanks also exists, you're going to use CC on some packs simply because those aren't able to generate enough threat on 4+ targets without any of them going after a healer or dps.

A huge issue is also that a lot of specs are unable to AoE dps, if your dps are Shadow, Rogue and Hunter. (which is actually not a terrible setup for heroics)..what's the benefit of AoE'ing other than being a huge pain for the Tank / healer?
Those specs can't AoE, hence the actual benefit is miniscule.
I suspect some people will pull off a form of spellcleave in TBC as well, but it will require a specific setup that naturally not everybody will be playing because they the classes capable of AoE is limited and only one tank is able to properly AoE tank anyway.

I understand what you are saying. We will see how the meta evolves. I dont think aoe tanking is going to be a problem for anyone but druids(swipe still doesnt scale afaik). Prot warriors actually have quite decent aoe capabilities.

My personal group is going for a prot paladin(aoe threat), resto shaman and shadow priest(for mana) and a mage/hunter for aoe and MD.

[Heathy]

gunna suck a bit for the palas, since they aren't going to have decent tanking gear, at least, most of them, pala t3 is a healing set so, if you're lucky you've been able to get some bits here and there. but most warriors and even feral druids that have been doing naxx are going to have substantially better mitigation. at least until the badge gear and t4 start rolling in. I don't particularly remember palas being super special god tier tanks in fact they probably took the most damage out of all of the tanks. druids could get their avoidance high enough to where they barely got hit, and warriors, just, you have spell reflect, shield wall and last stand, still have better oh shit buttons better spell mitigation. I'm pretty sure thunderclap works in defensive stance in BC, so that'll help together with cleave spam. even if druids ended up taking more damage than palas due to neither of them being able to mitigate spells through reflect, druids have more hp which makes it less of a problem for them. in fact I feel like druids could get the most HP out of all tanks. which is the other thing that made them good. in the grand scheme of tbc I feel like its still warrior > druid > pala.

palas were good in karazhan though because everything is undead, which mean exorcism works, holy wrath works. and ofc karazhan has those large packs of non-elite guests which were pretty much made for palas holy wrath, instant aggro don't even think it has a target limit.

[ClassicPeon]

gunna suck a bit for the palas, since they aren't going to have decent tanking gear, at least, most of them, pala t3 is a healing set so, if you're lucky you've been able to get some bits here and there. but most warriors and even feral druids that have been doing naxx are going to have substantially better mitigation. at least until the badge gear and t4 start rolling in. I don't particularly remember palas being super special god tier tanks in fact they probably took the most damage out of all of the tanks. druids could get their avoidance high enough to where they barely got hit, and warriors, just, you have spell reflect, shield wall and last stand, still have better oh shit buttons better spell mitigation. I'm pretty sure thunderclap works in defensive stance in BC, so that'll help together with cleave spam. even if druids ended up taking more damage than palas due to neither of them being able to mitigate spells through reflect, druids have more hp which makes it less of a problem for them. in fact I feel like druids could get the most HP out of all tanks. which is the other thing that made them good. in the grand scheme of tbc I feel like its still warrior > druid > pala.

palas were good in karazhan though because everything is undead, which mean exorcism works, holy wrath works. and ofc karazhan has those large packs of non-elite guests which were pretty much made for palas holy wrath, instant aggro don't even think it has a target limit.

Druids have the lowest mitigation till they start getting tier6 like gear where their avoidance really kicks in. Being a health sponge is kinda sucky for healers mana at the start

[Heathy]

I remember around t5 perhaps the start of t6 there were druid with over 60% dodge, I have a feeling the cap might have been 80% or something like that. without looking anything up it was a while ago, I know a druid was the better tank for morogrim, because they were the tank least likely to get two shotted. while a pala on that fight was also good for drawing the murlocs away from your healers (righteous fury > bubble) this was the fight in TBC that I remember most which favoured the other two tanks over warriors. where both a pala and a druid could tank and be better than a warrior. although I guess your pala doesn't really need to actually tank if they are going to bubble. but the option exists. they can either tank the murlocs or you can collectively stun lock them as the pala bubbles or bops themselves.

even if the dodge cap for druids is only around 60%-70% they do end up being the best tank in terms of dodge streaks. where they just don't get hit at all.

[Kralljin]

Prot warriors actually have quite decent aoe capabilities.

You pretty much have the same tools you have now while you no longer need to stance dance for Thunderclap and it gets a talent that significantly boosts its damage, but doesn't scale with AP, either.

I just checked the numbers on the max rank Thunder clap in TBC and it does about 123 damage, with Imp. Thunderclap which increases its damage by 100%, it's going to be 246, even with the threat multiplier from defstance & defiance, that may keep threat off very weak AoE, but not stop a lock that's spamming Seed.
And if you can't bring strong AoE, then what's the point of doing it? Any time you gain is lost by the healer having to sit down and reg.

Of course, Cleave and Tab target Devastate is a thing, but that's not going be to something your average warrior will pull off properly, disregarding that your group will most certainly adjust their playstyle around it.

I just don't see that working for the playerbase at large, it basically requires the warrior to be an above average player while also requiring the entire group to play around it, to deliver a worse payoff than a Prot pally.

[kranur]

You arent going to need to

At least not if you are somewhat used to m+

Oh but you are in some cases. The packs of 4 lobsters in SP for example will annihilate blue geared tanks without any cc. That doesn't mean you need to cc all the time but some particular packs are quite tough.

[Talon8669]

I think they'll be surprised by how one-dimensional arena is; ie play warrior/druid or warlock/druid or you lose.

That's not really true a buddy and I played frost mage/ ret pally sub just sub 2K most of the xpac and it was pretty fun.

[Professor Chaos]

The endgame meta causes the vast majority of battlegrounds in modern TBC to look like line infantry with Warlocks, Ele shamans and BM hunters turreting into each other. Resto druids and disc priests stand behind and the occasional rogue pops out and does rogue stuff. You see it on every private server and a lot of people are going to be hugely disappointed with how stale it gets.

[Drusin]

Yeah...I guess so. But the ppl who posted "Naxx will be hard" pulled it off as being sincere. Even after AQ was cleared in like 40 min....

That said. Indeed I didn't find anything in TBC to be a real guildbreaker. LV and KT took some time to learn, sure. Not until SWP. So I wonder how M'uru will be for folks in Classic TBC.

The question is, will it be prenerf or post nerf

[Qstall]

elixir masters were a thing, pretty sure one of the first procs I had was a x10 or something stupid like that. or just getting 2x 2x 2x 2x in a row. this is one of the reasons as to the why it was easier.

So satisfying tho

[ozzynclyde]

Very early on I think some mages and priests will struggle with gear balance. They will be juiced about their crafted gear but are being one shot by some mechanics because the barely have 5k hp. Stamina is crucial in early t4 for these two classes.

[ClassicPeon]

You pretty much have the same tools you have now while you no longer need to stance dance for Thunderclap and it gets a talent that significantly boosts its damage, but doesn't scale with AP, either.

I just checked the numbers on the max rank Thunder clap in TBC and it does about 123 damage, with Imp. Thunderclap which increases its damage by 100%, it's going to be 246, even with the threat multiplier from defstance & defiance, that may keep threat off very weak AoE, but not stop a lock that's spamming Seed.
And if you can't bring strong AoE, then what's the point of doing it? Any time you gain is lost by the healer having to sit down and reg.

Of course, Cleave and Tab target Devastate is a thing, but that's not going be to something your average warrior will pull off properly, disregarding that your group will most certainly adjust their playstyle around it.

I just don't see that working for the playerbase at large, it basically requires the warrior to be an above average player while also requiring the entire group to play around it, to deliver a worse payoff than a Prot pally.

I'm pretty confident that most prot warriors are able to tab target and spam dev in between tc and cleave.

The added threat from def stance and no rage loss from stance dancing leads to a whole lot of more threat. As far as i remember we can also charge in defensive stance meaning more burst threat.

+ things like MD from hunters (and possible from rogues?)