1. #1

    Legendaries and Titanforging: great idea, bad implementation

    How it was supposed to work:

    You reach 100% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging were boosts that would push you to 120% of your power and let you demolish everything including mythic raids. That's how things turned out in the Emerald Nightmare.

    How Blizzard implemented it post Emerald Nightmare:

    You reach 80% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging, despite being RNG in nature, are mandatory to barely struggle through mythic raids. That's how things turned out post the Emerald Nightmare.

    There is a reason more than 2000 guilds killed Xavius mythic while Kil'jaeden mythic sat at around 700 guilds.

    How it works now:

    Legendaries are not really "legendary". Rather than being nice additions on top of your power, they are completely mandatory. Acquiring a legendary doesn't feel like you are powering up your character past the limit. It feels like you are reaching the level of power that you were supposed to be at baseline.

    The problem was never the RNG aspect of Legendaries and Titanforging. The problem was that Blizzard thinks that endgame should be e-sports reserved only for the top 0.1% of players. If mythic raids were tuned to baseline gear with no legendaries, people would be able to power through them after acquiring good Titanforging procs and Legendaries and we'd have thousands of guilds achieving CE every time. But according to Blizzard, that would be a problem because some people find busting their heads in to clear a bunch of pixels "fun".

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral arr0gance's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree completely. Seeing as there were people who waited well over a year to get their BiS Legiondary, there is absolutely no way that RNG had anything to do with the reasons people didn't like this system.
    "Brevity is the sole of wit." -Abraham Lincoln, 1892

  3. #3
    Well, if Mythic raids are for the 0.01% of top players, then good thing the rest of the mortal still have Heroic and Normal mode. Other than that, yeah, current legendaries dont feel legendary at all but just a talent on an orange tooltip

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    How it was supposed to work:

    You reach 100% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging were boosts that would push you to 120% of your power and let you demolish everything including mythic raids. That's how things turned out in the Emerald Nightmare.

    How Blizzard implemented it post Emerald Nightmare:

    You reach 80% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging, despite being RNG in nature, are mandatory to barely struggle through mythic raids. That's how things turned out post the Emerald Nightmare.

    There is a reason more than 2000 guilds killed Xavius mythic while Kil'jaeden mythic sat at around 700 guilds.

    How it works now:

    Legendaries are not really "legendary". Rather than being nice additions on top of your power, they are completely mandatory. Acquiring a legendary doesn't feel like you are powering up your character past the limit. It feels like you are reaching the level of power that you were supposed to be at baseline.

    The problem was never the RNG aspect of Legendaries and Titanforging. The problem was that Blizzard thinks that endgame should be e-sports reserved only for the top 0.1% of players. If mythic raids were tuned to baseline gear with no legendaries, people would be able to power through them after acquiring good Titanforging procs and Legendaries and we'd have thousands of guilds achieving CE every time. But according to Blizzard, that would be a problem because some people find busting their heads in to clear a bunch of pixels "fun".
    There was no winning with the legend system since an inclusion of legends, even under extreme RNG (like Legion) will STILL make them feel like a mandatory thing.

    People playing games will ALWAYS trend towards being most effective, legends will always feel mandatory due to this. Especcially in WoW where people are especcially big on meta.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post

    There is a reason more than 2000 guilds killed Xavius mythic while Kil'jaeden mythic sat at around 700 guilds.
    it had nothing to do with mythic KJ being hard as fuck while mythic Xavius is easy af though right? hell I ran mythic ToS with 3-4 others and we bailed after Avatar because mythic KJ is still a pain in the ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post

    How it was supposed to work:

    You reach 100% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging were boosts that would push you to 120% of your power and let you demolish everything including mythic raids. That's how things turned out in the Emerald Nightmare.

    How Blizzard implemented it post Emerald Nightmare:

    You reach 80% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging, despite being RNG in nature, are mandatory to barely struggle through mythic raids. That's how things turned out post the Emerald Nightmare.
    your source on this is...?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    How it was supposed to work:

    You reach 100% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging were boosts that would push you to 120% of your power and let you demolish everything including mythic raids. That's how things turned out in the Emerald Nightmare.

    How Blizzard implemented it post Emerald Nightmare:

    You reach 80% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging, despite being RNG in nature, are mandatory to barely struggle through mythic raids. That's how things turned out post the Emerald Nightmare.

    There is a reason more than 2000 guilds killed Xavius mythic while Kil'jaeden mythic sat at around 700 guilds.

    How it works now:

    Legendaries are not really "legendary". Rather than being nice additions on top of your power, they are completely mandatory. Acquiring a legendary doesn't feel like you are powering up your character past the limit. It feels like you are reaching the level of power that you were supposed to be at baseline.

    The problem was never the RNG aspect of Legendaries and Titanforging. The problem was that Blizzard thinks that endgame should be e-sports reserved only for the top 0.1% of players. If mythic raids were tuned to baseline gear with no legendaries, people would be able to power through them after acquiring good Titanforging procs and Legendaries and we'd have thousands of guilds achieving CE every time. But according to Blizzard, that would be a problem because some people find busting their heads in to clear a bunch of pixels "fun".
    Ah yes another "reeeeee mythic raiders are evil"-thread.
    Seriously. What is this thread?
    First of all, stop using arbitrary numbers. There are over 10000 Guilds at at least 1/10 Mythic. IF that is only 0,1 % that would mean we have 200.000 mythci raiders or people going at least into it IF every team has exactly 20 people which in turn means that wow has 200.000.000 Million players....

    Stop putting your problems on other players. You want a easy faceroll game go to FF14. This will have evrything you need.
    If you are so angry that blizz gives u something to do beyond heroic... sorry? People actually DO have fun in mythic. Believe it or not. I don't care.

    The moment the game is made too easy you loose a good chunk of players. Because MANY people don't like that. Look at the Dark souls games. People like challenging content.
    And i get that not everyone likes that. That is why there are other difficulties like normal and heroic.
    You do NOT have to do mythic. There is not even a special transmog anymore. The ONLY thing is the mount for the clear.

    EDIT: Also what you are describing is a nerf essentially for the raid. If you get it immediatly it changes nothing. the 120% is the 100% then. If you get it after a while it is the standart nerfs blizz put out with every raid after a while
    Last edited by VinceVega; 2021-03-03 at 09:09 AM.

  7. #7
    Titanforging had two major issues, how far it could go.

    There shouldn't be item levels above mythic, if you can clear mythic you should get the best gear in the game not potentially the best gear if you're lucky.

    Titanforging also shouldn't be able to go from world quest gear all the way up to mythic. Maybe put the cap at heroic iLvl gear and only have heroic gear being able to titanforge up to mythic to help struggling guilds.

    There is room for both moments of RNG excitement and sense of completion, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Seriously. What is this thread?
    He's currently the #1 troll on this forum. He says absurd things just to rattle people's cages and just watches from the sideline.

  9. #9
    Isn't this just what renowned became?

    I admit I don't really see the point of legendary items everyone just get for free via a weekly unlock. At that point you might as well just add a talent row and not add something extra to grind.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    He's currently the #1 troll on this forum. He says absurd things just to rattle people's cages and just watches from the sideline.
    I don’t understand why trolls are allowed to create troll/bait threads with impunity but if anyone else calls them out on it they get infracted

  11. #11
    I honestly miss titanforging. I can understand how it sucked for mythic raiders to have to farm mythic+ endlessly to prepare for mythic but at the same time, there's literally no possibility for upgrades for my character outside of my end of week chest (or mythic raids but thats not happening) and there wont be until 9.1. The lack of titanforging put a hard finish line on gearing up which really isnt that hard to get to if you've been running 4 or 10 mythic+s a week

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    I honestly miss titanforging. I can understand how it sucked for mythic raiders to have to farm mythic+ endlessly to prepare for mythic but at the same time, there's literally no possibility for upgrades for my character outside of my end of week chest (or mythic raids but thats not happening) and there wont be until 9.1. The lack of titanforging put a hard finish line on gearing up which really isnt that hard to get to if you've been running 4 or 10 mythic+s a week
    Either your 226 or your finished the content you want to do.

    Why not make an alt?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    How it was supposed to work:

    You reach 100% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging were boosts that would push you to 120% of your power and let you demolish everything including mythic raids. That's how things turned out in the Emerald Nightmare.

    How Blizzard implemented it post Emerald Nightmare:

    You reach 80% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging, despite being RNG in nature, are mandatory to barely struggle through mythic raids. That's how things turned out post the Emerald Nightmare.

    There is a reason more than 2000 guilds killed Xavius mythic while Kil'jaeden mythic sat at around 700 guilds.

    How it works now:

    Legendaries are not really "legendary". Rather than being nice additions on top of your power, they are completely mandatory. Acquiring a legendary doesn't feel like you are powering up your character past the limit. It feels like you are reaching the level of power that you were supposed to be at baseline.

    The problem was never the RNG aspect of Legendaries and Titanforging. The problem was that Blizzard thinks that endgame should be e-sports reserved only for the top 0.1% of players. If mythic raids were tuned to baseline gear with no legendaries, people would be able to power through them after acquiring good Titanforging procs and Legendaries and we'd have thousands of guilds achieving CE every time. But according to Blizzard, that would be a problem because some people find busting their heads in to clear a bunch of pixels "fun".


    No.

    Emerald Nightmare was just an easy raid, and ToS was a hard raid.

    Nighthold and Antorus were fairly standard, which is maybe why you didn’t mention them?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Rick View Post
    Either your 226 or your finished the content you want to do.

    Why not make an alt?
    I'm 221, every piece of my gear is 213 or higher so the only option for gear is the end of week chest. I've never really liked playing alts and I didn't really have to in Legion or BfA to keep progressing in some way (I ran mythic+ and pugged heroic raids in both).

  15. #15
    Or maybe Emerald Nightmare was just undertuned? lmao

  16. #16
    So where is the RNG in the current legendary system?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    How it was supposed to work:

    You reach 100% of your power through normal gearing. Content is tuned for 100% of your power. Legendaries and Titanforging were boosts that would push you to 120% of your power and let you demolish everything including mythic raids. That's how things turned out in the Emerald Nightmare.
    I agreed with you there, then I feel you went off the walls.

    How the players saw it from day one was that there were onyl at 80% without the legendaries, so they cried and moaned about not being 100% until they got it. Instead of seeing their classes as complete and the legendaries as gravy on top, they saw the meal incomplete until they got the leggos.

    As for the rest, people aren't supposed to be able to power through mythic raids. That's not the target audience for it. Don't we already have threads calling for LFR/normal/heroic etc to be removed because they're allegedly redundant? Why make the hardest difficulty for the 1% to brag about so easy?
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    I'm 221, every piece of my gear is 213 or higher so the only option for gear is the end of week chest. I've never really liked playing alts and I didn't really have to in Legion or BfA to keep progressing in some way (I ran mythic+ and pugged heroic raids in both).
    Then your done nothing wrong with that

  19. #19
    The ONLY thing majorly wrong with LEGEND legendaries are the inclusion of support legendary on the available pool. They should be separately.

    Otherwise, the RNG aspect itself IS the whole point of the system! You get a combo of dps legendary, and you do your best with it. Your selection of legendary grows as you play the game! It sucks if you must have BIS, but that is the point of this system itself. The solution (if this is the system they decided) should be to balance the dps legendary as much as possible not remove RNG.

    If the RNG aspect is gone, the whole legendary system is moot why even bother. everybody go to a guide site and select those few listed and thats that.

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