Blademaster Class Concept Updated

[Triceron]

they don't, they are part of the orchish warrior archetype, a type of warrior archetype.

You could literally apply that broad classification to any melee class in the game.

DKs, Paladins and Demon Hunters are also types of warriors. Undead Warrior, Holy Warrior, Demonically-empowered Warrior. This doesn't automatically equate them to being the Warrior class.

talents are supposed to do just change, change how a class is played, they don't need to be groundbreaking neither too powerful, just resemble the archetype.

Talents support the core class identity, not split them off into something completely different.

Same can be said of talents that try to make a Hunter into a Dark Ranger. You can give a Hunter Black Arrow and Silencing Arrow and Shadow Dagger, but it's still gonna be a Hunter with some necromantic talents, and it's not gonna feel any different from how Covenants or past expansions give you shadow-based, necromantic abilities. You're still a Hunter with a Hunter kit. Same can be said of Warlocks with Metamorphosis and Dark Apotheosis; you never really got a full 'Demon Hunter' out of this even if there was an entire spec dedicated to it. It's more than just adding a few abilities, it's about presenting a new identity entirely.

Warriors aren't Blademasters even if they get Windwalking and Mirror Image talents, they're still gonna be Warriors with those abilities. Their entire rotations and kits are built for charging into battle, not relying on stealth and deception to gain an upper hand in battle.

This is why I say it would have to be on the level of a Prestige class addition, because the core Warrior gameplay has to be modified enough to accomodate bigger changes to the style of a Blademaster. They're not just Warriors with stealth and mirror image.

Heroes of the Storm exemplifies this the most. Play Garrosh or Varian, you feel like you're playing a Warrior. Play Samuro, and he's completely different. Windwalk and mirror image should be integrated into the gameplay, and not just as side additions that aren't exactly complimentary to the current Arms playstyle.

[Syegfryed]

It uses the same abilities as its Warcraft 3 counterpart: Mirror Image, Critical Strike, Bladestorm, Wind Walk - and expands upon it. I view it as a completely viable source.

Is not a completely viable source because its something made for a moba, the OG abilities are the ones in warcraft and they already are in the game, in the warrior class only missing the 2.

Because in WoW, the class has not been implemented yet.

It has, its called warrior.

The mountain king, blademaster and the tauren chieftain were just different warriors of different races and they got mixed in wow.

Do you think Death Knights had a different toolkit than other classes before Wrath of the Lich King? no, they didn't. They used a mix of Warrior and Warlock abilities. Did Demon Hunters have the plethora of abilities they have now? no, they mainly used Metamorphosis, which had been a Warlock ability.

pointless

"Warriors are common among orcs. Orcs have a long history of warfare; their race has been battling various creatures for generations. In the past, many orcs embraced their demon-born bloodlust and became barbarians. In recent years, the orcs' discovery of their spiritual and shamanistic path traditions has allowed orcs to focus and refine their savagery. Many orcs still become barbarians, but the way of the trained warrior - becomes more and more common. The iconic orc warrior is garbed in chain mail or leather and plate. He carries a mighty battleaxe and wears a horned helmet. He crouches in a battle stance, axe at the ready, as he evaluates his opponent...then, with a fearsome yowl, he strikes in a blur. Such warriors can be found among the common Grunt or the venerated worg riding raiders."

"Orcs are born warriors; as Eitrigg in Of Blood and Honor says, all orcs are warriors (this is a hyperbole as many orcs are peons). Subgroups of orc warriors are grunts and raiders. Famous orc warriors include Grom Hellscream, Durotan, and Orgrim Doomhammer."

Blademasters, also known as blade masters, are legendary orc warriors of the Burning Blade clan

i don't know how much more it can be explict

The only similarity between a Blademaster and an Arms Warrior is a mastery over two-handed weapon and the Bladestorm ability.

and that is like, the whole class concept, because blademaster are based on samurai, who, surprise surprise, are japanese warriors

Back in the day, Warlocks were the Demon Hunters due to Metamorphosis. It isn't the case today.

again, that is not an argument

you are even implying warriors would lose blademaster and their critics for the "blademaster class" is completely obnoxious.


is like saying a "far seer" is their own class, and not just how orcs call the top shamans

The Warrior class isn't a Samurai.

The samurai is literally the warrior class

Not only that. But the double-sword use could imply on a specialization that is separate from the two-handed archetype.

you mean like fury warrior can use two swords too?

Much like how Metamorphosis was removed from the Warlocks and given to the Demon Hunter.

that would be dumb as fuck, because again, blademaster are warriors

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Akinos
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blademaster_Ronakada

[ashblond]

We don't need any more class in wow atm.

Making each class/spec mechanics/abilities balance and unique is what need, instead of adding new "cosmetic" new classes.

[Syegfryed]

You could literally apply that broad classification to any melee class in the game.

DKs, Paladins and Demon Hunters are also types of warriors. Undead Warrior, Holy Warrior, Demonically-empowered Warrior. This doesn't automatically equate them to being the Warrior class.

your comparison make no sense because blademaster are not "empowered with magic" like those, a paladin is fundamentally different than a warrior, but a blademaster is just a warrior

is like saying "hey this is not sa shaman, this is a far seer, a completely different class!1!!!"

Talents support the core class identity, not split them off into something completely different.

Good thing the blademaster abilities support the core class identity, cause blademaster are warriors.

Just like Avatar was a mountain king ability, and is a talent now, they can make mirror image and wind walk as talents just fine

Warriors aren't Blademasters .

they literally are and blademaster are warriort rainers among wow lore for eyars by now.

This is why I say it would have to be on the level of a Prestige class addition, because the core Warrior gameplay has to be modified enough to accomodate bigger changes to the style of a Blademaster. They're not just Warriors with stealth and mirror image.

it don't, wind walk could be a sprint like ability with like 1-2 seconds of invisibility, just to dodge and cause confusion, wind walk could be exactly the same, not do damage, just apepar to cause confusion and be destroyed quickly.

they can work totally fine as talents.

Heroes of the Storm exemplifies this the most. Play Garrosh or Varian, you feel like you're playing a Warrior. Play Samuro, and he's completely different. Windwalk and mirror image should be integrated into the gameplay, and not just as side additions that aren't exactly complimentary to the current Arms playstyle.

ITs a moba, for crying out loud, is not a good parameter, even there he just feel like a warrior anyway, despite his stealth skill.

[Electric Lighter]

I can't really see how it would get a place for itself between rogues and havoc demon hunters never mind warriors. monk and paladins.

I could see it being a neat costume idea but like how the death knight killed off the necomancer I think a agility based fury of blades DH killed off blademaster.

[Triceron]

your comparison make no sense because blademaster are not "empowered with magic" like those, a paladin is fundamentally different than a warrior, but a blademaster is just a warrior

is like saying "hey this is not sa shaman, this is a far seer, a completely different class!1!!!"

Rogues technically aren't magically aren't magically empowered either, and are different from Warriors all the same.

Good thing the blademaster abilities support the core class identity, cause blademaster are warriors.

They're a specialized type of Hero that have unique traits and abilities that aren't normally found in the Warrior class. It's absolutely arguable whether Windwalk and Mirror Image actually support a Warrior class identity. That's why we're here discussing it.

So tell me, what about Stealth Mechanics and Duplicates actually supports a Warrior identity and theme?

Just like Avatar was a mountain king ability, and is a talent now, they can make mirror image and wind walk as talents just fine

Nothing about Avatar actually breaks the Warrior mold. Warriors are Tanky and heavy hitters who meet their foes head-on. They aren't exactly subtle about the abilities they use.

Windwalk and Mirror Image are deception tactics, a skillset more commonly associated with Rogues.

it don't, wind walk could be a sprint like ability with like 1-2 seconds of invisibility, just to dodge and cause confusion, wind walk could be exactly the same, not do damage, just apepar to cause confusion and be destroyed quickly.]

That's not what Windwalk is though. That's not Windwalk as an ability.

Here lies in the question - would a Warrior with a 1-2 second sprint with invisibility really feel like playing a Blademaster, or is it just a Warrior with a stealth gimmick talent? It's arguably going to be the latter.

If you give Warriors Army of the Dead and Death Coil, it doesn't exactly make them a Death Knight. You understand what I'm saying here? I can argue that 'Well just make it a Warrior picking up an enchanted Runeblade that lets them raise the dead and use dark spells through talents', but that doesn't mean that is a Death Knight's gameplay. And we can absolutely argue that Death Knights are just types of Warriors, whether they are magically enhanced or not. Necrolord Covenant abilities are already magically enhancing Warriors, yet we can tell the difference between a Warrior-who-uses-Necromancy and an actual Death Knight class. They're fundamentally different.

ITs a moba, for crying out loud, is not a good parameter, even there he just feel like a warrior anyway, despite his stealth skill.

Warcraft 3 is the same example.

Blademasters in Warcraft 3 had more in common with Demon Hunters and Rogues than they do with Warriors, that being they use stealth and speed, were agility-based heroes, and used relatively little armor. The one thing that connects them to Warriors is simply the use of a 2H blade. As I said above, that same connection could be applied unilaterally to any Warcraft 3 hero; DK's and Paladins are also types of Warriors.

At this point, I'd say I'd agree to disagree since we seem to have different perspectives of what the concept and identity of a Blademaster are and are not. I think that War3 and HOTS made a clear example of what Blademasters should be, and I don't see that being shared alongside Varian, Garrosh, Muradin and ETC. I'm not sure how far your example extends, and whether you might see MOBA Arthas as an actual Death Knight as opposed to 'a Warrior with some Undead abilities'. To me, the lines are fairly clearly drawn, since each MOBA character has their own identity, and the ones that share very close types of mechanics can be easily identified for what they are. Varian, Garrosh, Muradin and ETC all share very similar types of abilities, even if each is nuanced in a different way or have different gimmicks about them. To me, Samuro plays very differently, as Illidan or Greymane play differently from the other Warrior types. He's not quite an up-front brawler, he's more of a melee assassin.

[Alanar]

Then, how about taking those aspects from the Rogue and Monk and giving it to the Blademaster?

Many claim that the Dark Ranger cannot constitute a class on its own, as it overlaps with the Hunter and Death Knight classes. as a specialization, though, it could definitely be viable.

As for a Spellbreaker, it is very unlikely, as it is a simple silvermoon guard unit, like a Grunt or a Footman.

So you want to give monk spells to rogue? cus like I said the examples given are just rogue/monk abilities. No thanks.


I dissagree both can be fleshed out with just a little bit of imagination, both were just simple examples. Spellbreaker aka battlemage type class (Nighthold boss) I know is unlikely, but either Dark ranger or as much as I dont want to say it tinker have both way more room to be fleshed out and would feel new, there are many dark ranger fan made concept which would give you an idea what could be possible, with again just alittle bit of imagination. The blademaster sounds cool I guess, but doesn't bring a whole lot of *new* things as far as I can see. I could see a gladiator type stance taent for monks or something that maybe would add that feell. If we ever get new class I think a ranged class would interesting and about time imo.

[username993720]

Is not a completely viable source because its something made for a moba, the OG abilities are the ones in warcraft and they already are in the game, in the warrior class only missing the 2.

You can't rely on a unit with 4 abilities to make up a whole class.
Warlocks had the Death Knight's Death Coil. Did it mean they were Death Knights?
Warlocks had Metamorphosis and have immolate. Did it mean they were Demon hunters?
Rogues have Evasion. Does it mean they are Demon Hunters?
Priests had Mana Burn. Did it mean they were Demon Hunters?
Blademasters having bladestorm doesn't, automatically, make them Warriors.

It has, its called warrior.

The mountain king, blademaster and the tauren chieftain were just different warriors of different races and they got mixed in wow.

It, really, hasn't.
I agree with you on the Mountain King and Tauren Chieftain, but not on the Blademaster.
You see, i believe that the Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon and Sea Witch are not Hunters, Shadow Hunters are not Shamans, Wardens are not Rogues, Tinkers are not Engineers and Alchemists are not of the Alchemy profession.

pointless

It isn't. It shows you how a class is misrepresented in-game until it is added. Death Knights could have passed as either Warlocks or Warriors and Demon Hunters as Rogues or Warlocks.

i don't know how much more it can be explict

Well, so are the Beastmaster and Enhancement Shaman described as:
"A beastmaster, also known as beast master, is a warrior hero or wilderness warrior who is able to call forth the creatures of the forest to serve him."
"A totemic warrior who strikes foes with weapons imbued with elemental power."
Doesn't make them Warriors, though.

and that is like, the whole class concept, because blademaster are based on samurai, who, surprise surprise, are japanese warriors

No, it isn't.
"One of the blademasters' more mystical abilities is to create duplicate phantom images of themselves. Though the phantom images can move about freely of their own volition, they are not true entities unto themselves." - Warriors are not mystical.

"So adept and agile are the blademasters that they can move so quickly that they appear to be invisible to the naked eye" - Warriors are not agile and quick.

again, that is not an argument

you are even implying warriors would lose blademaster and their critics for the "blademaster class" is completely obnoxious.


is like saying a "far seer" is their own class, and not just how orcs call the top shamans

Actually, it is.
Because you can see how something that was considered completely integrated into another class became its own class.

They would only lose Bladestorm. Like Warlocks lost Metamorphosis and Death Coil to Death Knights and Demon Hunters. Critical Strike is a generic ability.

I don't consider Far Seer a separate class from the Shaman because it is fully represented (alongside the Shaman unit).

The samurai is literally the warrior class

Saying this is like saying Demon Hunters are:
"Demon Hunters are dark, shadowy warriors who are shunned by the greater night elf society."

you mean like fury warrior can use two swords too?

And like how a Rogue can, too. -_-
It's nothing unique.
You wouldn't consider the Samurai a furious berserker, would you?

that would be dumb as fuck, because again, blademaster are warriors

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Akinos
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blademaster_Ronakada

For the meantime.
You don't seem to grasp the concept of class being underrepresented until it is added to the game.

I can't really see how it would get a place for itself between rogues and havoc demon hunters never mind warriors. monk and paladins.

I could see it being a neat costume idea but like how the death knight killed off the necomancer I think a agility based fury of blades DH killed off blademaster.

I would agree that they are similar in their Japanese aesthetics.
But, i don't believe it to be fully killed off.
The Necromancer was never meant to be a class, as it is a basic unit in WC3.

[Syegfryed]

Rogues technically aren't magically aren't magically empowered either, and are different from Warriors all the same.

we saw multiplee xamples of rogues using shadow magic, we even have a recent trailler where a rogue just turn himself invisible.

Warrios also have magic like abilities and magic empowering abilities like avatar.

They're a specialized type of Hero that have unique traits and abilities that aren't normally found in the Warrior class.

Literally 2/4 of their abilities and traits are found in the warrior class, and no, im not considering the Hots bs, but the original class in wC3

So tell me, what about Stealth Mechanics and Duplicates actually supports a Warrior identity and theme?

because not all warriors are DUMB ME SMASH YAAARG, warrior is a broad term and even vague sometimes, it definitely can fit that, a Samurai or any other mroe subtle fighter, if the Fury warrior cane mulate a berserker The arms warrior can emulate a selth samurai if they ahve the tools for it.

The blademaster is a warrior who does that, and again, you are overcomplicating things, it does not need to be a stealth mechanic like rogue.

Nothing about Avatar actually breaks the Warrior mold.

neither wind walk or mirror image does.

Avatar is a theme for dwarves and those two are from orcs

Windwalk and Mirror Image are deception tactics, a skillset more commonly associated with Rogues.

a simple mindset, too resctrivive, is like saying fire magic is a mage tactic, terefore warlocsk can't do it.

that does not need to be the entire concept of the class, just a talent.

That's not what Windwalk is though. That's not Windwalk as an ability.

bullshit, tons of abilities were changed and/or edited to fit the wow MMORPG system, this could be just another one.

Here lies in the question - would a Warrior with a 1-2 second sprint with invisibility really feel like playing a Blademaster, or is it just a Warrior with a stealth gimmick talent? It's arguably going to be the latter.

current warrior arms already feels like playing a blademaster, the sprint with vinsivibility is just for flavor.

If you give Warriors Army of the Dead and Death Coil, it doesn't exactly make them a Death Knight. You understand what I'm saying here?

And mages didn't become blademaster because they got mirror image

pointless, Blademaster are, canonically and mechanically warriors, in lore and gameplay, proved countless of times already, blademaster is not a different class, is just an elite group of orcish warriors.

Blademasters in Warcraft 3 had more in common with Demon Hunters and Rogues than they do with Warriors,

nah, nope, they are frontline fighters regardless

that being they use stealth and speed, were agility-based heroes, and used relatively little armor.

That is just a different mechanic because the tauren chieftain already use STR

The one thing that connects them to Warriors is simply the use of a 2H blade.

Things that connects blademaster to warriors:

- use 2H
- use plate
- Use bladestorm
- use critical strikes
- frontline fighters
- Arms warrior description just alude blademaster "A battle-hardened master of two-handed weapons, using mobility and overpowering attacks
- Said in lore countless of times to be just an elite force of orc WARRIORS
- tons of blademasters in the game are tagged as warriors
- Tons of blademasters in the game are warrior trainers

Literally, the only thing they lack off is mirror image and windwalk

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You can't rely on a unit with 4 abilities to make up a whole class.

*looking at DH and DK

I agree with you on the Mountain King and Tauren Chieftain, but not on the Blademaster.

you can just be wrong, but that is your chosing.

Blademaster are literally elite orc warriors.

You see, i believe that the Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon and Sea Witch are not Hunters, Shadow Hunters are not Shamans, Wardens are not Rogues, Tinkers are not Engineers and Alchemists are not of the Alchemy profession.

half right half- wrong.

Well, so are the Beastmaster and Enhancement Shaman described as:

and we already know beastmaster is a ranger and enhancement is a shaman

you are just confusing a broad term with the real thing.

is like saying a far seer is not a shaman, but a far seer, is dumb

No, it isn't. - Warriors are not mystical.

except you know you are completely ignoring how they can transform themselves into avatars, scream so loud that can burst into a dragon roar and other mystical prowess

and you know what ability warriros ahve now that was also magical in nature?

Storm Bolt
A magical hammer that is thrown at an enemy unit, causing damage and stunning the target.

"So adept and agile are the blademasters that they can move so quickly that they appear to be invisible to the naked eye" - Warriors are not agile and quick.

they definitely are, they ahve charge, heroic leap, mobility and even get great benefit sfor getting HASTE

They would only lose Bladestorm. Like Warlocks lost Metamorphosis and Death Coil to Death Knights and Demon Hunters. Critical Strike is a generic ability.

And that is completely retarded, cause bladestorm is a warrior ability since wc3, cause blademaster are warriors

I don't consider Far Seer a separate class from the Shaman because it is fully represented (alongside the Shaman unit).

just like blademaster are

Saying this is like saying Demon Hunters are:
"Demon Hunters are dark, shadowy warriors who are shunned by the greater night elf society."

no

And like how a Rogue can, too. -_-
It's nothing unique.

exactly, you can't make up an entire class just because they can use 2 weapons, or because you don't feel like they are already represented in the game

For the meantime.
You don't seem to grasp the concept of class being underrepresented until it is added to the game.

and the only thing it needs to be fully represented is mirror image and wind walk like abilities, and they can add that as talents just fine, we don't need an entire new class that will rip off the warrior class, steal and delute their fantasy.

[bloodkin]

Going to be honest, I was pretty skeptical, but you did put in some good effort, this concept is good and has some nice flavor, were this isn't a copy of a warrior, monk or shaman, but a bridge between these classes, while still retaining a unique identity. It also fits in to the lineup of classes in wow, as isn't breaking any lore.

I do have a few tips:
- A polearm would fit in nicely in the twohanded lineup, it is a bladed weapon, and although it is easy in use, it is harder to truly master

- a bit more emphasis on the water element for the tanking spec would help in keeping it's identity strong and and clear

- I understand the choice for mail as it's armour type, as it would make all armour classes fit nicely again, but I actually think this class would make more sense with cloth. This would also make this the first cloth tank, but it does make sense: this class is skilled enough to not need heavy armour, and any armour heavier than cloth would restrict movement too much to allow it to perform certain moves.

- a bit more racial variety would be nice, wouldn't directly say to add all elves, but looking at races that have a strong elemental connection would be interesting suck as troll and dwarfs.


Overall, this is one of the first class ideas that I think has had some actual thought put behind it and could possibly be implemented.

[Triceron]

current warrior arms already feels like playing a blademaster, the sprint with vinsivibility is just for flavor.

I completely disagree.

I don't think Arms Warrior is anything like a Blademaster in its concept or themes.

To me, it's little different than trying to argue that Necromancers are just a type of Mage, or Dark Rangers are just a type of Hunter. Ultimately the answer to any of this is all subjective.

To me, I'm not convinced that a few talents would be able to capture the spirit of a Blademaster with Arms spec. Arms plays in a very specific way, and I equate that to Varian in Heroes of the Storm as compared to Samuro. The gameplay is very different.

You see it as being similar or even the same, and only needing a few talents to capture the spirit of a Blademaster within the Arms spec, within the Warrior class. Well, that might satisfy you, but I don't think it will really satisfy anyone who is actually looking for a Blademaster, which is the point of this thread IMO. It's like when Hunters had Black Arrow, or pointing out that WoW Dark Rangers are just Forsaken Hunters. Well, in the end, does the Hunter class really capture the spirit of a Dark Ranger? For some people, maybe Forsaken Hunter with Black Arrow was enough. But that's not my point or my concern, because people can be happy with just pretending to be another class that isn't already in the game, like all the Rogues or Warlocks who pretended they were Demon Hunters before the classes were in the game.

Blademaster to me is more than just an Arms Warrior with more Blademaster-like talents. I think Blizzard is capable of making 'Prestige class' type additions to the game, but I also doubt that they would move forward with it any time soon. I simply think it's a wait-and-see situation, since there's plenty of B-tier class concepts they've left untapped, and up till now they haven't been interested in merging more class concepts into the existing classes like Dark Rangers, Priestess of the Moon, Necromancers, Blademasters, Wardens etc. At most we just see a handful of abilities being pawned off to existing classes, like Starfall, Metamorphosis, Hex and Bladestorm. I personally think there needs to be much more done to properly encompass the gameplay, theme and identity of another class entirely.

bullshit, tons of abilities were changed and/or edited to fit the wow MMORPG system, this could be just another one.

My point is that Windwalk should be Windwalk, and not just dumbed down in mechanics to suit a Warrior class gameplay. We're talking about having Blademaster be playable, not just have Warrior have an option to pretend to be more like a Blademaster.

Warlocks had Metamorphosis tailored to a Warlock style of gameplay. They had Dark Apotheosis/Glyph of Demon Hunting provide them with a Demon Form for tanking too. These are tailored abilities for the Warlock, and they let you do some Demon Hunter-like things. But let's focus here - none of this actually brings us closer to actually having a playable Demon Hunter. For that, we needed to look at an entirely new class with its own gameplay, themes and identity.

Blademaster may seem like just an Arms Warrior with a few creative talents to you, but I don't think you really see the Blademaster identity the same way as people who are asking for the class concept, because no one who actually regards a Blademaster will settle for a Warrior with new talents any more than a Spellbreaker or Warden fan would settle on a Rogue or Mage with a few new talents.

[oplawlz]

My two cents: I would lean heavily on the Mirror Image schtick and make it the primary mechanic for the class. While it exists in game, I would amp it up as it's the only melee mechanic that isn't really represented in WoW from the Blademaster's kit from WC 3.

While in concept I agree with you, the absolute last thing we need is more shit cluttering up the melee area in raids.

[jellmoo]

While in concept I agree with you, the absolute last thing we need is more shit cluttering up the melee area in raids.

Oh I definitely see your point, but I don't think it's something that can really be avoided. Just about any new class introduced is going to add clutter to the battlefield.

[bash the fash]

I don't think the game needs any new classes right now, and it definitely doesn't need more melee classes.

[mickybrighteyes]

Looks fun! I've wanted blademasters for a while now. They are basically like Warcraft's samurai class.

It wouldn't be a warrior, blademasters don't use plate. And warriors don't use the elements or illusions.

the bold is entirely dependent on how you discuss their equipment.

anyways. blademasters in the lore thus far have been two handed weapon fanatics often depicted with Sephiorth-esque extended blades or axes (Grom was a blademaster in the game files). we can split hairs all day about the class fantasy tropes but honestly anyone's basic blademaster concept is going to be a mixed bag that is drawing from existing warrior or rogue themes (and stepping into the territory that monks and some other npc mashups of paladin/shaman/etc have tread into).

I'd say, like what others have probably mentioned, the game doesn't need any more classes and heavens no to any more MELEE ones .... especially if they're in leather or plate. Blademaster imo would be a great concept if they took character building in a different direction and allowed for some sort of multiclassing where we could reskin features somehow (this right here might solve virtually every concept class idea... tinker? take demo/BM/UH and reskin everything to mech theme. Necromancer? same deal with demolock but undead minions instead of demons... might even be easier than whatever they're trying to do with the existing specc balance bullshit)

edit: looks at concept...

getting mostly rogue warrior and monk vibes.... except they get to wear mail likely because that's the only armor type that isn't split between 3+ classes.

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Oh I definitely see your point, but I don't think it's something that can really be avoided. Just about any new class introduced is going to add clutter to the battlefield.

ranged classes tend to not be as cluttered in the battle field unless something forces them to.... like chains or the field being heavily restricted because it's falling into a void... or is a ridiculously small area to begin with because fuck us.

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I completely disagree.

I don't think Arms Warrior is anything like a Blademaster in its concept or themes.

since none of us have any real idea of how a blademaster should be played we're sitting back stuck with just a handful of themes to argue between.

in the dota/warcraft hero most people really only saw 2h weapon and bladestorm with heavy hits as the key defining thing. Some people focused on the mirror images and stealth ambushing... problem is these concepts fall apart when people try and set them up in some sort of multiple specc class idea (even worse then the major traits have been leeched over into half the melee class concepts that made it into the game)

IMO the original blademaster ideas got mashed up somewhere between rogue and warrior with a small dash of shaman in the mix.... then they used assets for paladins with some blademaster characters and dumped the rest of the asian themes that the characters had when they brought an even more obviously asian series of tropes for OTHER characters. At this point trying to legit push for them to appear as a stand alone class NOW is already going to have to bastardize them away from original idea (i.e. NOT making them an AGI based light armor class for starters)

[oplawlz]

Oh I definitely see your point, but I don't think it's something that can really be avoided. Just about any new class introduced is going to add clutter to the battlefield.

True, but adding 3-4 copies of perhaps multiple melee characters to the mix sounds really painful. Already hard to see stuff on the ground if your raid is melee heavy and the boss has a smaller model. Artificer comes to mind.

[Triceron]

IMO the original blademaster ideas got mashed up somewhere between rogue and warrior with a small dash of shaman in the mix.... then they used assets for paladins with some blademaster characters and dumped the rest of the asian themes that the characters had when they brought an even more obviously asian series of tropes for OTHER characters. At this point trying to legit push for them to appear as a stand alone class NOW is already going to have to bastardize them away from original idea (i.e. NOT making them an AGI based light armor class for starters)

I'm not arguing for them to be a standalone class though.

My point is clearly about a Warrior class, as it exists now, being unable to completely absorb or define itself as a Blademaster concept. Blademasters aren't what the Warrior class has been built to be, and ideas from the outside won't really change a Warrior to be more like a Blademaster unless we're talking about something radical like a 4th spec, a class skin, a prestige class etc.

I don't think it's worth making a full new class out of, but I find merit in these class concepts having identities separate from what we have now. Hunters aren't POTMs and Dark Rangers as much as we'd like to imagine they could be; they just aren't built to take up other class identities. They already have their own

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Famous orc warriors include Grom Hellscream, Durotan, and Orgrim Doomhammer."

Grom Hellscream was a Blademaster. WC3 he had every Blademaster ability.

[bash the fash]

Grom Hellscream was a Blademaster. WC3 he had every Blademaster ability.

He was given blademaster abilities because they weren't going to create an entire host of brand-new abilities for a single character, so they made him an existing hero unit with a new skin. I think a lot of people here are getting way too wrapped up in "clearly you HAVE to have [x] ability or you're NOT a blademaster" or whatever. Troll shamans don't have stasis trap or ward totems, that doesn't mean a "troll witch doctor" isn't literally just a flavor-name for a troll shaman. Shamans get reincarnation, that doesn't make them tauren chieftains, just like the fact that no class has endurance aura doesn't mean we need a new tauren chieftain class that has that ability.

If you want to be a blademaster, use your imagination and your transmogs. We don't need more melee classes in the game.

Every hero unit from WC3 doesn't need to be a class. Plenty of their abilities already exist in other classes, and for many like the aforementioned tauren chieftain and yes, even blademaster, there's very little outside of flavor to differentiate them mechanically from current classes. Adding a few abilities might be neat, but they already have enough problems balancing crap like covenant abilities as-is.

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He was given blademaster abilities because they weren't going to create an entire host of brand-new abilities for a single character, so they made him an existing hero unit with a new skin. I think a lot of people here are getting way too wrapped up in "clearly you HAVE to have [x] ability or you're NOT a blademaster" or whatever. Troll shamans don't have stasis trap or ward totems, that doesn't mean a "troll witch doctor" isn't literally just a flavor-name for a troll shaman. Shamans get reincarnation, that doesn't make them tauren chieftains, just like the fact that no class has endurance aura doesn't mean we need a new tauren chieftain class that has that ability.

If you want to be a blademaster, use your imagination and your transmogs. We don't need more melee classes in the game.

Every hero unit from WC3 doesn't need to be a class. Plenty of their abilities already exist in other classes, and for many like the aforementioned tauren chieftain and yes, even blademaster, there's very little outside of flavor to differentiate them mechanically from current classes. Adding a few abilities might be neat, but they already have enough problems balancing crap like covenant abilities as-is.

I don't think every hero in WC3 needs to be a class, but they were arguing that Blademasters aren't Orc Warriors, and then listed notable Orc Warriors starting with Grom, who was literally a Blademaster class-wise in WC3