Cheap laptop + external GPU: Viable?

[Vasti]

My laptop is currently on its last legs.

I would normally upgrade to a desktop since I don't really move my laptop anywhere, but space limitations mean I can't have a big case on/under my desk.
And I kinda like the idea of it being portable (on vacation maybe), but not married to it

Since gaming laptops are more expensive than gaming desktops I was thinking maybe having an external GPU be a way to make it cheaper for myself and easier upgrade-able (not sure if the logic here is sound)

My current laptop is hooked up to an external monitor, external keyboard, external speakers and a BT mouse.

Given a budget between 1000-1500 dollars* should I go for:
-Cheap laptop + external GPU
-Gaming laptop
-Small Case Desktop (needs to be very small or very thin, like a laptop)


As for what I'd use it for:
-Some gaming (Would like to play Diablo 4 when it finally releases on ultra/high graphic settings)
-Some photoshop / video editing
-Internet (where I usually keep many tabs open for days)
-My Plex Server
-Light programming, nothing super intensive



*I'm in Europe actually, but can work with dollars as well if that's easier

[reemi]

You should have better performance with desktop, but with small desktop, I don't think you'll find one with a GPU inside.

so maybe a laptop with a "ok" GPU...

[Vasti]

Why not build a sff system?

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A case like https://ssupd.com/products/meshlicious doesn’t take up a ton of space...

I've never build a computer before. I'm guessing the building itself is doable. Just finding the right components especially with the size constraint and all being compatible (and good) is something I don;t even know where to start

[alexchaos]

Hey check out this website: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/ (it says ca for Canada but you can change country)

It will tell you if the parts you pick have compatibility issues with the rest of the parts so you can be sure you're not picking anything wrong.

As for the specs, you'll have to check for something within your budget to get a general idea and look for the parts on that website.

[Vasti]

Start right here. What kind of actual budget do you have, and where do you live?

Switzerland (It's 2am here now)
I think my budget maximum is 1500 CHF = 1640 USD
Naturally if I can get what I want for cheaper that's better.
Was hoping to spend more like 1200CHF on it.

Not sure how realistic this is. All I hear is chip shortage and crypto miners driving prices up

[Kagthul]

My laptop is currently on its last legs.

I would normally upgrade to a desktop since I don't really move my laptop anywhere, but space limitations mean I can't have a big case on/under my desk.
And I kinda like the idea of it being portable (on vacation maybe), but not married to it

Since gaming laptops are more expensive than gaming desktops I was thinking maybe having an external GPU be a way to make it cheaper for myself and easier upgrade-able (not sure if the logic here is sound)

My current laptop is hooked up to an external monitor, external keyboard, external speakers and a BT mouse.

Given a budget between 1000-1500 dollars* should I go for:
-Cheap laptop + external GPU

Cheap laptops dont support E-GPUs. You need Thunderbolt 3 for that. So thats a no-go from the get-go.

*I'm in Europe actually, but can work with dollars as well if that's easier

I used Germanys prices, since im not sure where you're at in the EU, though if the EU works like i think its supposed to work (isnt it a free-trade union?) it shouldn't matter since you can simply order from Germany if it is cheaper.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/94qhJf

CPU: Intel Core i5-10600KF 4.1 GHz 6-Core Processor (€189.81 @ Mindfactory)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler (€60.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: ASRock Z490M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard (€155.49 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory (€79.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial P2 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€98.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Fractal Design Define Nano S Mini ITX Desktop Case (€69.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic CORE GM 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply (€91.64 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €746.54
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-03-04 02:04 CET+0100

Youll notice there is no GPU. Thats because there are no GPUs available at MSRP on the regular. You're going to have to wheel and deal on the second hand market or stake out a retailer and hope you grab one when they get one in stock.

This isn't likely to change until May at the absolutely earliest. If we're lucky. Id bet good money its gonna be more like August.

Right now is a REALLY bad time to be building a rig for that reason (and AMD 5000 series CPUs being basically non-existent or if they are available, well over MSRP).

I went with the 10600KF because it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the 5600X and will perform.... pretty damn close to it when overclocked. It outperforms the 3600 by a decent margin when OCed, and is roughly the same price, so the 10600KF is the best bet here. IF you want to wait a few weeks, Intel's Tiger Lake (11th gen) CPUs will be out, and you might be able to get an 11600K or KF for near the same price, and those will actually be on par with the 5600X or even faster, and Intel claims that there wont be part scarcity (they are the only manufacturer where id believe that since they havent had any problems thus far).

You could theoretically get a "gaming" laptop with a similar CPU (6 core Intel or AMD) and a "new" 3000 series GPU for the ~1500 mark, but that 3000 series GPU will be quite a bit slower than the desktop equivalent (they are limited to the stock (desktop) clocks and cannot boost, or, depending on the chasis, even lower.

So youd be spending more for less. Though you may actually be able to find one, where you might have to wait weeks to get a GPU if building a desktop.

There's also the possibility of grabbing a pre-built desktop, as OEMs have been having better luck getting 3000 series GPUs, but they tend to sell out super fast (nearly immediately, just like any GPUs) when they get them in stock.

[Vasti]

It’s very true that GPUs and CPUs are hard to come by, but I see some 5000 series ryzen in stock for your country so the biggest hurdle is gonna be the gpu. What resolution were you looking at and would you need the monitor?

I would like to be able to play games in 4k on 1 screen at least. With 4k for non-games supported on 2 monitors for whenever I get more desk space.
Currently I only have 1 QHD monitor, but I plan to upgrade that one later to a 4k one separately. So monitor should not be counted in that budget (a suggestion for a nice monitor or what to look for is appreciated)

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Cheap laptops dont support E-GPUs. You need Thunderbolt 3 for that. So thats a no-go from the get-go.

...

Right now is a REALLY bad time to be building a rig for that reason (and AMD 5000 series CPUs being basically non-existent or if they are available, well over MSRP).

Switzerland isn't part of the EU but probably I could still order computer parts from Germany if it's cheaper there.

Good to know that cheap laptop+egpu is no go. That eliminates one option.

The parts list looks good (as far as I can assess it), just wondering how much a decent gpu costs nowadays given the shortage (if it's even available)

[Kagthul]

I would like to be able to play games in 4k on 1 screen at least. With 4k for non-games supported on 2 monitors for whenever I get more desk space.
Currently I only have 1 QHD monitor, but I plan to upgrade that one later to a 4k one separately. So monitor should not be counted in that budget (a suggestion for a nice monitor or what to look for is appreciated)

I wouldnt bother with 4k, honestly. If you're sitting at the distance you should be from your monitor, you already cant see pixels on 1440p. 1440p high refresh is (IMO) substantially more enjoyable than 4K/60.

Switzerland isn't part of the EU but probably I could still order computer parts from Germany if it's cheaper there.

Yeah i was in the process of posting when you posted that you were from Switzerland so i missed that. Unfortunately PCPartpicker doesn't have a Switzerland site, but you can get an idea from the German prices.

Good to know that cheap laptop+egpu is no go. That eliminates one option.

The parts list looks good (as far as I can assess it), just wondering how much a decent gpu costs nowadays given the shortage (if it's even available)

To get anywhere *near* MSRP/Retail price, you're going to have to camp out a vendor. Or wait till after May (if what nVidia and AMD said at CES was true). Otherwise... here in the US at least the second hand market prices are absolutely insane (up to over 2x MSRP) and not worth it no matter what.

I got lucky in that i managed to find a decent deal with trading my old 1080Ti as part of the deal (if i count what i could have sold the 1080Ti for - even at the time - i still paid ~1100 - 700 cash and the 1080Ti in trade) but that took basically watching FB Market like a hawk for weeks. And now there's no way that would happen.

Its a terrible time to have to build.

[Vasti]

To get anywhere *near* MSRP/Retail price, you're going to have to camp out a vendor. Or wait till after May (if what nVidia and AMD said at CES was true). Otherwise... here in the US at least the second hand market prices are absolutely insane (up to over 2x MSRP) and not worth it no matter what.

I got lucky in that i managed to find a decent deal with trading my old 1080Ti as part of the deal (if i count what i could have sold the 1080Ti for - even at the time - i still paid ~1100 - 700 cash and the 1080Ti in trade) but that took basically watching FB Market like a hawk for weeks. And now there's no way that would happen.

Its a terrible time to have to build.

Assuming I could get my hands on a GPU, which one would you recommend me to get?

[des1235]

This isn't likely to change until May at the absolutely earliest. If we're lucky. Id bet good money its gonna be more like August.
Right now is a REALLY bad time to be building a rig for that reason (and AMD 5000 series CPUs being basically non-existent or if they are available, well over MSRP).

Could you elaborate why that is? Thanks in advance.

[Kagthul]

Could you elaborate why that is? Thanks in advance.

Which particular thing are we talking about here?

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Assuming I could get my hands on a GPU, which one would you recommend me to get?

The best one you can afford if you intend to do 4K and/or high refresh 1440p. I wouldnt waste money on the RTX 3090, but short of that, youll need as much muscle as you can manage.

[blackmartin]

I would like to be able to play games in 4k on 1 screen at least. With 4k for non-games supported on 2 monitors for whenever I get more desk space.
Currently I only have 1 QHD monitor, but I plan to upgrade that one later to a 4k one separately. So monitor should not be counted in that budget (a suggestion for a nice monitor or what to look for is appreciated)

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Switzerland isn't part of the EU but probably I could still order computer parts from Germany if it's cheaper there.

Good to know that cheap laptop+egpu is no go. That eliminates one option.

The parts list looks good (as far as I can assess it), just wondering how much a decent gpu costs nowadays given the shortage (if it's even available)

There is no way you can build a budget PC “AND” get high performance in 4k at ultra settings (for diablo 4, as you pointed out). Most 100% top of the line graphics cards are still barely pushing 4k at acceptable frame rates.

For a decent 4k experience at 60+ FPS you are talking about a $3000~ USD gaming rig, at least. If you have to drop graphical settings to achieve playable frame rates in 4k, it defeats the purpose of having a nice 4k monitor.

I would highly advise you to look into a solid Gsync/Freethink 1440p monitor with 144hz

[Kagthul]

For a decent 4k experience at 60+ FPS you are talking about a $3000~ USD gaming rig, at least.

Umm... no.

Not remotely.

4k requires GPU horsepower, and pretty much nothing else (at 4k the CPU will not be the bottleneck unless you've got like a dual core part or something). An RTX 3080 is (at MSRP, at least) only 700-800$. You can easily build the rest of the rig around it for another 800$. A 3090 isn't enough more powerful than the 3080 to change that equation or make it worthwhile (its only about 10% faster).

I still dont recommend 4K, simply because while yes, it is "sharper" - once you get past the "i can no longer see the individual pixels" density - then its not nearly as profound as jumping from 1080p to 1440p, and youll get a lot more mileage out of 100+fps at 1440p than you will out of 4k.

[Vasti]

The best one you can afford if you intend to do 4K and/or high refresh 1440p. I wouldnt waste money on the RTX 3090, but short of that, youll need as much muscle as you can manage.

I was looking at GPU's yesterday (crazy prices atm), but I noticed there are different variations of them as well.
A lot of the sites recommended the RTX 3060 TI as best for performance/price ratio (at MSRP)
But then I see:
Founders Edition
ASUS ROG STRIX
ASUS TUF STRIX
ASUS KO
ASUS DUO
Colorful iGame
EVGA


etc.

If I find a GPU, does it matter a lot which version I get?


I think right now my plan is to hunt for the GPU and then build the rest of the PC around that GPU.
For the smaller form factor desktop cases, anything I should look out for (i.e. are some GPU variants too big for it or do not provide enough cooling)?

Secondly: Heat dissipation is a bigger issue with smaller desktop cases, is it a big problem? Do we know how much the performance impact is?

[Kagthul]

a 3060Ti isn't going to get you 1440p high refresh. Itll do 1440p/60, but not high refresh and it certainly wont do 4K.

Aim higher -OR- temper your expectations.

As for variants... meh. Most of the time they are going to be within the margin of error of one another. Very rarely does one perform better than others.

The only thing you have to worry about in SFF cases (usually) is card width - how many PCIe slots it takes up. Some SFF cases will only fit 2 slot cards, but most these days will fit 3 slot cards. The spec sheet will usually say what they support.

If you're looking at a 3060Ti, then size really wont be an issue as that card doesnt run hot at all.

As for higher temps in smaller cases - yeah. Thats the n ature of the game. Less space to dissipate heat = higher temps. But unless you seriously screw up the build by putting fans in the wrong places or wrong orientation or something, itll be fine. CPUs and GPUs can run a lot hotter than people give them credit for (youll see people in here freaking about temps in the mid 60s C, when most CPUs dont even throttle till they are in the 90s, for instance). As long as they aren't throttling or causing fan noise you cant stand, then you're OK.

For GPUs, most of the coolers do just fine. Somewhat ironically, the "Founders Edition" cards from nVidia themselves have some of the best coolers, but really any of the 3-fan aftermarket designs are fine. For the 3080, the only ones ive seen that get "loud" in a way i find unpleasant is the EVGA SC Black - this is important - at high fan speeds. That is because its a 2 slot design and doesn't rear its ugly head often (I have this card in my rig, which is a constrained SFF case - the Phanteks Evolv Shift) - only if the card is running flat out and you aren't wiling to tweak the settings some. (I undervolted the card to .9v and limited the clock speed to 1900 mhz and it has really brought temps down).

It isn't an issue youd really have to worry about with a 2.5 or 3 slot card (i had the ASUS TUF 3080 card for a bit - it wouldn't fit my case without some modifications i didnt want to make - and it never got loud at all (with its beefier 2.5 slot cooler).

Higher temps will also depend entirely on the case as well. Some SFF cases have lots of mesh and airflow and its less of an issue - like that Meshilicious that was linked earlier (if you can get that case, its actually reviewing really well, but it seems to be out of stock). It actually has a lot of airflow and keeps temps well in check (and fits full size ATX PSUs and 3 slot GPUs).

[Vasti]

So I'll aim for 3060 ti, 3070 or a 3080 (3090 seems too expensive at MSRP even)

Then should I wait with buying the other parts until after I secure the GPU or should I gather some stuff now already?

I'm afraid, buying stuff now (like the case) might end up not being compatible with the card I can get my hands on later

[Kagthul]

As long as you get a case that supports a 3 slot GPU, youll be fine. And yeah, the 3090 isnt worth it. Its only about 10-15% faster than a 3080 and twice as expensive.

The AMD 6800XT or 6900XT (even harder to find than the nVidia cards) are also viable options, though the lack of some features compared to nVidia cards makes them a pass for me personally (no DLSS is a dealbreaker AFAIC).

As for “buy parts now or later” - if you can put it off youve almost nothing to lose. 11th Gen Intel comes out soon, and is 15% faster than 10th Gen clock-for-clock, and will likely be the same price or close to it. Ryzen 5000 may come back in stock at the MSRP, making the 5600X a much better proposition.

Maybe grab the case and Power Supply now - especially to prevent a case you like from going out of stock. Grabbing an SSD while prices are low cant hurt either. But you can put off MoBo/RAM/CPU without worrying, really. Doing so will probably give you better choices, really.

[Vasti]

As long as you get a case that supports a 3 slot GPU, youll be fine.
...
Maybe grab the case and Power Supply now - especially to prevent a case you like from going out of stock. Grabbing an SSD while prices are low cant hurt either. But you can put off MoBo/RAM/CPU without worrying, really. Doing so will probably give you better choices, really.

I'll be on the prowl for gpu, power supply and case then (possibly SSD too).
What should I pay attention to with respect to the power supply?

[Kagthul]

For PSU, youll want a minimum of 650W (contrary to what people will tell you, a 3080 + a midrange (in terms of core count) CPU will run just fine on 650W. Still, if it isnt a lot more expensive, a 750W will leave you wih plenty of headroom. Stick to a reputable brand and OEM (i recommend Seasonic) - check JohnnyGuru.com for reviews/ratings on individual units. You may need an SFX Power Supply depending on the case. Check the case compatability to be sure. Many SFF cases can use full size ATX PSUs, but just as many require SFX.

[Vasti]

Thanks for all your advice.
Hope I get lucky with the GPU, meanwhile I'll pray my current laptop will hold out a bit longer still
Not much else I can do right now, sadly