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  1. #21
    I really miss gearing up in m+. 210 ilvl for a 15 is a joke, all it does is timegating loot, which is the worst shit ever

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    No one "figured" anything out. We just used an addon that told us what was best. All it did, was add another gate into wearing a piece of gear. And a bad one as we cant carry it with us like enchants. Thats why it was removed. Plus it promoted "lawlz need roll" cause even if the piece was bad, people rolled for it cause they could reforge it. It does not need to come back.
    Roll where? All is personal loot.

  3. #23
    Sounds like most raiders keep scapegoating gear as the issue instead of their raids skill.

    The raid is 3 months old and has received multiple nerfs. It’s not a gear thing anymore.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That is not going to fix loot either and for majority PL is rather good.
    It'll do away with getting the same piece over and over and over and remove the need for shit like the vault where you can target specific pieces as trash band-aid solutions to how garbage the system in fact is.

    The option to choose which loot system you'd like to utilize is infinitely better than being pidgeon holed into the one with least player agency.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Nope because now we have diminishing returns so if you're over the thresholds you progressively get less secondary percentage the more you stack. You would need to run sims to see where you would need to reforge that secondary to.

    But even that's an oversimplification because to really min/max, you'll want to see all the items you can reforge to the nth degree to get as close to (if not perfectly on) the thresholds to maximize your stat rating. Reference wowhead article

    So now you're looking at how do I get up to 15~16 pieces reforged so I can hit 30% of x secondary (say Haste) and put the rest in my second best secondary (up to 30%) and if that is more DPS than taking the progressive penalties as I continue to stack x secondary beyond 30%.
    that's not notably better/worse than how people already sim their items today.

    the more important factor is: how much better is the sim result than just doing it yourself with simple rules. and i'd say the difference wouldn't be staggering nowadays.

    sure hardcore players can probably wiggle an couple extra percent out of it by doing extreme simming compared to regular simming, but it won't cripple people who don't sim.

    and at the flipside: i won't have to hear "i wish i could trade this item but personal loot" as often.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbyfists View Post
    For example - Monks and Demon Hunters HAVE to PVP in order to get their BIS gear. While my idea is not a complete ideal solution, but it would be enough of a solution in order to allow these classes to not feel COMPLETELY forced into PVP / M+.

    While the whole "forced to do XYZ content that i dislike" thing is subjective, there is a simpler solution

    Make gear only be worthwhile in the content it's obtained. It can be done with either ilvl or stats.

    Ilvl 226 pvp gear scales down to 200 in PvE for example. Or make versatility only work in PvP

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    No one "figured" anything out. We just used an addon that told us what was best. All it did, was add another gate into wearing a piece of gear. And a bad one as we cant carry it with us like enchants. Thats why it was removed. Plus it promoted "lawlz need roll" cause even if the piece was bad, people rolled for it cause they could reforge it. It does not need to come back.
    As you point out, you have to be stupid to think that wanting reforging back was ever about "figuring" anything out. And you have to be equally dense to think that it's about anything else than making a shitty drop less shitty. You already know what your best stats are (thanks to simming done by somebody else), and you'll be enchanting and reforging to get more of them as well. Reforging is just an extra tool to suffer less from bad luck.
    Last edited by Tronski; 2021-03-05 at 08:23 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigy2 View Post
    It'll do away with getting the same piece over and over and over and remove the need for shit like the vault where you can target specific pieces as trash band-aid solutions to how garbage the system in fact is.

    The option to choose which loot system you'd like to utilize is infinitely better than being pidgeon holed into the one with least player agency.
    That is the issue with vault, vault is garbage system, I said it like year ago. But old looting system isn't a solution either.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  9. #29
    Meh the issue with reforging is it's just a really boring and tedious mechanic. There's nothing particularly interesting about running a sim and then going to the reforger and swapping a few stats around.

    And most of the time you wouldn't even sim it, it's just "Haste is my best stat, anything that isn't Haste I reforge to have Haste on it". Like that's not interesting or fun in any way, it's just an extra step you take every time you get a new piece of gear.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    You already know what your best stats are (thanks to simming done by somebody else)
    You don't. This can only come from people that never simmed their character.

    Two top M+ players from raider io page:
    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-r...r/marksmanship

    Their stat weight reports:
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...stSunDnEbnLiTK
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...ehXHUK9U6EQGZ3



    Any questions?


    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    and you'll be enchanting and reforging to get more of them as well. Reforging is just an extra tool to suffer less from bad luck.
    It changes absolutely nothing. Item A is still better than item B, there is no power shift while using reforging. Relative power stays the same.

    Reforging without hit/exp cap is simply a gear tax, nothing else.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Well this thread will be filled with "im good, you suck, not happy? leave! thanks for the blog post"

    But I was always a fan of reforging. It's a big why not. Oh no.. super pros got to do stuff to gear when they get it... boo hoo..

    I never understood why they stripped customization away like gem slots in gear baseline and reforging.
    What exactly does re-forging fix? It literally makes a piece that is not BiS, a little bitter. People still want their BiS stats.

    What does that even mean? "Oh no.. super pros got to do stuff to gear when they get it... boo hoo.." ?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    No one "figured" anything out. We just used an addon that told us what was best. All it did, was add another gate into wearing a piece of gear. And a bad one as we cant carry it with us like enchants. Thats why it was removed. Plus it promoted "lawlz need roll" cause even if the piece was bad, people rolled for it cause they could reforge it. It does not need to come back.
    still tinkering with your gear was fun

    i really miss all the forging /gems/enchants/glyphs/talent trees we were using in cataclysm .

    was much more fun expansion to play then garbage SL

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You don't. This can only come from people that never simmed their character.

    Two top M+ players from raider io page:
    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-r...r/marksmanship

    Their stat weight reports:
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...stSunDnEbnLiTK
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...ehXHUK9U6EQGZ3



    Any questions?



    It changes absolutely nothing. Item A is still better than item B, there is no power shift while using reforging. Relative power stays the same.

    Reforging without hit/exp cap is simply a gear tax, nothing else.
    Well, you are comparing a PvP geared hunter to a PvE geared hunter. Technically it is true, but should you compare players with same legendaries?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Well, you are comparing a PvP geared hunter to a PvE geared hunter. Technically it is true, but should you compare players with same legendaries?
    The thing is, don't compare yourself to others. Just sim it. How are you going to "know your stat weights" ?
    Find someone with almost exact same gear and ask him for stat weights?

    No. You just SLAPP your char into raidbots.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  15. #35
    Epic! Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    Ilvl 226 pvp gear scales down to 200 in PvE for example. Or make versatility only work in PvP
    PvP-only stats didn't seem that popular when we had PvP power/resilence.
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  16. #36
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    The majority of people arent complaining that their 9th 226 piece doesnt have haste on it.
    They are complaining that it took 17 dungeons to replace their first 200 piece.


    All this 'fixes' is making the top 10% even stronger than the rest.
    Yep. VERY few people are timing 15+ keys, ranking in PVP etc. If you are and still failing in mythic CN the issue is unlikely to be gear and more likely to be execution, yours or the raid's. But it's much easier to focus on gear, so...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Meh the issue with reforging is it's just a really boring and tedious mechanic. There's nothing particularly interesting about running a sim and then going to the reforger and swapping a few stats around.

    And most of the time you wouldn't even sim it, it's just "Haste is my best stat, anything that isn't Haste I reforge to have Haste on it". Like that's not interesting or fun in any way, it's just an extra step you take every time you get a new piece of gear.
    Agreed. I don't have a problem with adding it back, but it's just meh as a thing to do. Reforging was originally a way to give away extra hit and expertise which had a hard cap and use at least some of that stat budget for a stat that wasn't hard capped. Beyond that, it's just a way to play at the margins of your performance.

  17. #37
    Reforging is good.

    BUT... knowing the blizzard of 2021... if they were to give us Reforging back it'd undoubtedly come alongside a decrease of overall loot quantity because we can't just have those gosh darn players be done with gearing their characters in less than 3 months. Doubts? Just look at how we'll have to refarm m+ items for valor upgrades again (technical difficulties my fucking ass), and just look at how it's gonna take you like 3 months to upgrade a single 210 2H weapon to a grand fucking... grand... ilvl of 220. Again, can't have those silly players be done with a character before that next content patch hits... where they'll make you refarm that same m+ trinket again... so you can upgrade it 12 times... again... so you can refarm it 6 months later... again.... and then upgrade it 12 times... again.

    So no, don't bring Reforging back. I like getting more than a single piece of loot per month.

  18. #38
    I don't think reforging is a solution. I think everybody should have access to the same gear but it costs more to "upgrade" for players with lower achievements.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbyfists View Post
    snip
    Reforging was (and would still be) horrible.

    It wasn't a choice, it wasn't a consideration, you literally clicked an addon to optimize your stats. It's was a horrible feature. Let's not bring it back.

    Also, the notion that reforging would 'fix gearing' is absolutely absurd. Complains about gearing are about few drops, and low item level in comparison to other sources (M+ 210 max ilvl on drop vs PvP with vastly higher limits as an example)... and not really about the stats on the items.
    Last edited by hulkgor; 2021-03-04 at 05:16 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Reforging was (and would still be) horrible.

    It wasn't a choice, it wasn't a consideration, you literally clicked an addon to optimize your stats. It's was a horrible feature. Let's not bring it back.

    Also, the notion that reforging would 'fix gearing' is absolutely absurd. Complains about gearing are about few drops, and low item level in comparison to other sources (M+ 210 max ilvl on drop vs PvP with vastly higher limits as an example)... and not really about the stats on the items.
    I agree with it not being a choice. One combination of stats is the best. 99% will click a button on their addon that reforges everything to the best possible combo.

    The only way I'd be ok with reforge is of blizzard pulled off the impossible and made everything 100% perfectly balanced. As in 100% crit, 0% haste, equalled any other combo of stats. Thrn it could be cool to go all crit cause u like crit. Or all haste cause u like attacking faster. But that will never happen so reforming shld stay gone

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