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  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    The flagsmashers and Batroc hold the GRC hostages, making demands, maybe killing one. Got that right
    Heroes show up, with Sam finally claiming the title of Captain America. And that one
    Cap and Bucky will get to kick ass until Walker of course crashes the rescue operation. Still right, but not exactly as i thought Clash of the Caps, Sam with a new costume and the OG shield, Walker with his selfmade costume and shield, the flagsmashers will get decimated but Karli gets away, most likely picked up by one of Sharon Carters henchmen, revealing Sharon as the Powerbroker. Half right, half wrong. No clash, and all Flaggers die. But still, Batroc covers their escape, and Sharon gets revealed as the PB

    Walker will lose, and gets nabbed/rescued by the Contessa and her new Hydra. Got that wrong, US Agent is officialy a hero?
    At the end of it Sam will be lauded by the public and rescued politicians, keep the shield and title of CA. Duh
    And the last shot we will see of our heroes will be them cruising in the fixed ship around, trading quips and insults. Standing on the pier, close enough

    If we are really lucky Cheadle will make a guest appearance again as War Machine.
    Sadly, not guest appearance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm fine with a mafia. Of course, the mafia families often worked with independent third parties in order to maintain relations.

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    called it! Sharon was indeed the Power Broker
    It's such an asspull though, the whole thing is predicated on Steve not giving a shit about her for 6 years.

  3. #1023
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    There's some weird quirks in this show, but I liked it quite a bit. Better than I expected, same as Wandavision really. Both started kinda weak and grew on me too.

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Im going to need season 2.

    Thats right Disney, Im going to need you to run that season 2, now.

    New theory floating around

    Sharon is a skrull
    Maybe. It felt like JLD was foreshadowing Secret Invasion when she said things are about to get weird.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I’m still buzzing and haven’t fully digested this series yet, but Marvel is crushing it on Disney+. After the first two series we’ve got a bit of a wait for Loki, but my anticipation is off the charts for that show. I’m also kinda hoping we see a Thunderbolts lineup at some point, but that may be a little while off still.

  5. #1025
    I sure hope they'll be doing the Captain America and the Winter Soldier series now^^ Maybe making Bucky a fully fledged White Wolf and the third season can be Captain America and the White Wolf

    The shot of Sam pushing up the truck was absolutely stunning, I loved it.

    Bucky got his superhero landing, yay!

  6. #1026
    Sam turtling up to bounce the helicopter off of his shield/wings: Fuck you, that wasn't awesome, or anything!

    Isaiah walking into that room in the museum: Fuck you, I'm not crying, or anything!

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    I sure hope they'll be doing the Captain America and the Winter Soldier series now^^ Maybe making Bucky a fully fledged White Wolf and the third season can be Captain America and the White Wolf

    The shot of Sam pushing up the truck was absolutely stunning, I loved it.

    Bucky got his superhero landing, yay!
    I wouldn’t mind the next series being Cap and the Winter Soldier before Cap and the White Wolf. Ayo did say to stay away from Wakanda for a little while, so it’d make a lot of sense for Bucky to still be the Winter Soldier next time... I’d try to predict what story they could tell, but I feel like we gotta wait for Dr. Strange before we really have a clue as to where the MCU stands in Phase 4. All of this is building up to some crazy shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Sam turtling up to bounce the helicopter off of his shield/wings: Fuck you, that wasn't awesome, or anything!

    Isaiah walking into that room in the museum: Fuck you, I'm not crying, or anything!
    Perfect setup for Isaiah to tell his story through flashbacks in his own mini-series.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I wouldn’t mind the next series being Cap and the Winter Soldier before Cap and the White Wolf. Ayo did say to stay away from Wakanda for a little while, so it’d make a lot of sense for Bucky to still be the Winter Soldier next time... I’d try to predict what story they could tell, but I feel like we gotta wait for Dr. Strange before we really have a clue as to where the MCU stands in Phase 4. All of this is building up to some crazy shit.



    Perfect setup for Isaiah to tell his story through flashbacks in his own mini-series.
    My idea would be the White Wolf being one of the Wakandan operatives within America, working largely with Captain America stopping international threats... something like that. He wouldn't have to be in Wakanda apart from the occasional visit maybe until he can officially come back.

    And yea, maybe a series about Eli Bradley coming into the Avengers (or whatever they'll do with him) and he tells his grandfather's story.

    @s_bushido Sam pushing the truck and Isaiah watching on TV and later in the museum was like... who's cutting onions.

    Although I have to admit even John Walker dropping the shield to save the hostages brought a tear to my eye. That was just beautiful.

  9. #1029
    Good, but super rushed. Particularly, Walker did near to a 180. Odd, since this is one of the shorter episodes after the slow burn of last week. They could have afforded more time to the resolution with Bucky's amends, Walker's semi-face turn (and spontaneously healed arm), and how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days when there should have been insane amounts of pushback. And all of these would be non-effects scenes, so it should've been easy to write around.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days
    There's nothing really stopping those scenes with Isaiah from being weeks later. And just from an optics point of view, it would have probably been in the museum director's best interest to not push back too much against a request like that from the new Captain America.

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Good, but super rushed. Particularly, Walker did near to a 180. Odd, since this is one of the shorter episodes after the slow burn of last week. They could have afforded more time to the resolution with Bucky's amends, Walker's semi-face turn (and spontaneously healed arm), and how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days when there should have been insane amounts of pushback. And all of these would be non-effects scenes, so it should've been easy to write around.
    To be fair when he killed that guy he was enraged at the death of his friend. Definitely wasn’t thinking clearly. So between that and the final episode he obviously had time to reflect and choose his path.

  12. #1032
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Good, but super rushed. Particularly, Walker did near to a 180. Odd, since this is one of the shorter episodes after the slow burn of last week. They could have afforded more time to the resolution with Bucky's amends, Walker's semi-face turn (and spontaneously healed arm), and how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days when there should have been insane amounts of pushback. And all of these would be non-effects scenes, so it should've been easy to write around.
    Super Soldier serum explains the healing.
    We don't fully know how much time had passed.

    But, otherwise, I agree. The ending felt rushed.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-04-23 at 03:28 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #1033
    I was mildly disappointed with how quickly and neatly everything tied up, but I enjoyed the series overall.

    Less than half of my tongue in cheek predictions panned out, but I was highly caffeinated when I wrote it... so jittery, I'm surprised I didn't phase through the keyboard.

    New suit looks dope. Sam showed off a lot of skill and improv with the shield. Good Cap. I'm convinced.

    Wasn't expecting Walker to not go full evil. Maybe next time we see him.

    That last scene with Isaiah made me want to see more stuff with a younger him.

    Still not convinced Sharon's Power Broker after the mid credits. Reporting to someone doesn't seem very Power Brokery. Maybe I'm just trippin.

    Bring on Loki! /shakesfist

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Sam turtling up to bounce the helicopter off of his shield/wings: Fuck you, that wasn't awesome, or anything!
    That was awesome, as was digging his wings into the ground when he blocked Karli's to anchor himself against punches.
    Need Roll - 1 for [Bright Pink Imbued Mageweave Banana-Hammock] by Ayirasi

  14. #1034
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Outside of a few scenes, I feel the finale was the weakest of the episodes. It wasn't bad, just felt rush to me to resolve everything. I think the series could have benefited from either a longer finale or another episode.
    Maybe, they also could have cut the action by like 40%, scaled back Sam's lecture to the government (that speech having an effect is one of the biggest fantasy elements of the series), and wrapped everything up more neatly. I think if you tried to split this episode in two and fill it out, you would end up with two much more boring episodes. The only thing that needed a significantly more development was Walker's turn. I think it was supposed to be a twist, but it felt more like he uses a coin toss in lieu of an ethical code.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Maybe, they also could have cut the action by like 40%, scaled back Sam's lecture to the government (that speech having an effect is one of the biggest fantasy elements of the series), and wrapped everything up more neatly. I think if you tried to split this episode in two and fill it out, you would end up with two much more boring episodes. The only thing that needed a significantly more development was Walker's turn. I think it was supposed to be a twist, but it felt more like he uses a coin toss in lieu of an ethical code.
    To me that speech seemed really important. And I agree, that in a realistic sense it would not work the way it did here, unless you take into account that it was also delivered on live TV and the senators all had gone through quite the 'adventure' right before it, so Sam was able to get some wishes in, before they go back to business as usual.
    But what I found important about it, was that it put the 'terrorist' accusation into perspective. And the fact that there were council members from all over the world there made it so it's not a 'murica bad! speech, but it was a plea to all the governments out there who have to put half their countries in prison or kill their people, just so they can keep power or push through legislation, all while calling them 'terrorists' and justifying everything with it. And while it won't work on those governments either, of course, it does maybe succeed in making a few viewers think about it and talk about it, which might lead to them not buying everything they are being fed about government vs terrorists through propaganda without at least for a second remembering that scene.
    It's just a movie and so that's not going to be enough to bring about any real change, but I do think that every little push counts, every small sympathy towards other people's plea is a good thing.
    And that there's no easy answers to that is also an important message to get across.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    To me that speech seemed really important. And I agree, that in a realistic sense it would not work the way it did here, unless you take into account that it was also delivered on live TV and the senators all had gone through quite the 'adventure' right before it, so Sam was able to get some wishes in, before they go back to business as usual.
    But what I found important about it, was that it put the 'terrorist' accusation into perspective. And the fact that there were council members from all over the world there made it so it's not a 'murica bad! speech, but it was a plea to all the governments out there who have to put half their countries in prison or kill their people, just so they can keep power or push through legislation, all while calling them 'terrorists' and justifying everything with it. And while it won't work on those governments either, of course, it does maybe succeed in making a few viewers think about it and talk about it, which might lead to them not buying everything they are being fed about government vs terrorists through propaganda without at least for a second remembering that scene.
    It's just a movie and so that's not going to be enough to bring about any real change, but I do think that every little push counts, every small sympathy towards other people's plea is a good thing.
    And that there's no easy answers to that is also an important message to get across.
    Well my only original point was that it was too long and comes across as very silly; you could buy some character development and better wrap-up by cutting that speech in half, and I think you could cut it in half without losing any significant message.

    As to the rest of your point, I agree and I don't. Labeling them as terrorists was fine, they used murder and fear to achieve their political goals, they are terrorists. To me the show could have made its point more solidly if it highlighted a parallel organization working toward the same goals, who got a seat at the table in the global council or whatever it was and that was what moved things forward. Saying "we should listen to these violent extremists because they were willing to kill and die for their beliefs" is a) not a great idea and b) not something that actual people in power would respond to, since it encourages more violence. The point that what these governments was doing is wrong could have been made without supporting her actions.

    I do understand what you're saying, and I wholeheartedly agree that it's worth trying to understand the root causes for people who take these kinds of actions and trying to solve those root causes. Ultimately the world would be a better place if we could listen to one another more effectively, even to those who use the worst kinds of tools to try to amplify their message, but the way this was framed was not so good.

  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Well my only original point was that it was too long and comes across as very silly; you could buy some character development and better wrap-up by cutting that speech in half, and I think you could cut it in half without losing any significant message.

    As to the rest of your point, I agree and I don't. Labeling them as terrorists was fine, they used murder and fear to achieve their political goals, they are terrorists. To me the show could have made its point more solidly if it highlighted a parallel organization working toward the same goals, who got a seat at the table in the global council or whatever it was and that was what moved things forward. Saying "we should listen to these violent extremists because they were willing to kill and die for their beliefs" is a) not a great idea and b) not something that actual people in power would respond to, since it encourages more violence. The point that what these governments was doing is wrong could have been made without supporting her actions.

    I do understand what you're saying, and I wholeheartedly agree that it's worth trying to understand the root causes for people who take these kinds of actions and trying to solve those root causes. Ultimately the world would be a better place if we could listen to one another more effectively, even to those who use the worst kinds of tools to try to amplify their message, but the way this was framed was not so good.
    I agree of course that when you're at the point of people bombing stuff you're in actual terrorist territory and Karli definitely deserved that label. But as you said, it's about the question of how did it get to that and also about how many people are there in any given movement that just agree and maybe support and not don't use violence, like the guys in the first episode that gave the flagsmashers shelter. As Sam said, if it's half your country, maybe you should question if there's something you forgot to take into account instead of just labelling everyone terrorists. Because as we all know, the line between 'freedom fighter' and 'terrorist' is very thin and mostly dependent on viewpoint. Although that too is an easy answer and well... as we already said, it's not usually that easy.

    I guess the main point I wanted to make was that I personally indeed find it fine and important if a show that wants to raise questions and make people talk that it also delivers some perspective and find it especially impressive if it does so without then also touting easy answers. Which is why I found the dialogue/speech with the councilors important. And while I wrote in my 'prediction' post that I'd like for the main senator to go to prison, I also thought it was very good that he was shown here without actually being vilified in the scene itself (apart from what he already effed up himself beforehand)

  18. #1038
    Pretty happy with the finale. I was actually surprised they took care of the threat so early in the episode, though. But I guess it let them wrap things up.

    Some really nice fight moves, they're always fun.

    Sam's speech was a pretty important one for the world. I just wish I liked his new Cap Falcon outfit a bit more while listening to it lol

    I don't think I really have any issues with the series as a whole. Maybe just that I didn't really care about the after credits scene. That could also just be because I was expecting a bit more.

    Speaking of that scene, though, am I recalling correctly that US Agent is a good guy? He does seem to have had his redemption, I suppose. But its a bit shadowy with whatsherface setting things up like that.

    What's next on the Marvel slate at this point? Loki?

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post

    The Sharon thing is still super weird to me. I simply don't understand her motivations to do what she's doing. Or why no one saw through it.
    In all fairness everything is weird about her. She willingly took a mission that would possibly lead to her boning her great uncle.

  20. #1040
    The series was enjoyable, but only if I turn my brain off. Not a series I'd recommend, it seems like you could get a cliff notes version of this whole story and not miss out on anything.

    The jokes fell flat, the characters seemed somewhat cliche (even with the twists) and the overall plot didn't do all that much for me. There weren't even any notable big fights that I can say I really cared about, since all the action was just a situational reaction to a plot I didn't really care about. Like, as much as I felt this way about Age of Ultron, I could at least point at a Hulk vs Ironman/Hulkbuster event, or the big end battle against hordes of robots. In this, I didn't really feel like there were those moments. The finale was somewhat of a letdown for me since the setup for Falcon's cool moments didn't really resolve my expectations for a show about bad guy super soldiers. It's not something I'd watch the series again for, really.

    Either way, this series sets up a lot of new seeds for future stories. More power broker shenanigans, start of the Thunderbolts, new Avengers lineup with a new Cap to lead them. Good setup for future movies.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-04-23 at 07:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

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