Page 49 of 61 FirstFirst ...
39
47
48
49
50
51
59
... LastLast
  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    Honestly, didn't care for it as much as I did Wandavision. Liked it and all, but it was one of the weakest MCU offerings to me since Thor 2.

    I watch superhero movies to see outlandish superpowers and stuff. Sam as Cap has a great commentary and all, but it's not Steve Rogers pulling a flying helicopter back towards the helipad. It's not Thor appearing in Wakanda through a bridge of light and hurling a giant lightning axe through waves of enemies.

    It's the same problem that War Machine and Hawkeye have - He's just a dude. The stakes are automatically lowered because he's NOT a "super" hero. Thanos snaps this dude figuratively AND literally. And yes, I get that's why the commentary works, and it's important he's not "super" for the story beats - but it's just not scratching the itch the rest of the MCU did.

    I always found Falcon lame for that reason. I'm aware this is a very personal preference.
    A good analysis and I almost agreed until I remembered The Dark Knight trilogy. It is possible to do non-super powered heroes and make them interesting if the characters are interesting enough. Sam's a boy scout with wings who will monologue long enough if no one will interrupt and it sounds patriotic or progressive, but in the real world it just sounds like babble. I noticed one thing. My favorite episodes (4 and 5) featured Zemo heavily. Zemo and Walker (before he became 2-dimensionally bad.) This episode lacked Zemo who was easily the most interesting character on this show.

    Yeah, Sam is boring. It's not a non-super thing. It's a Falcon thing.

  2. #962
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    He wouldn't.

    I think we know for sure that Sharon is lying about basically everything. That leaves basically two possible reasons;

    1> She's always been working for/with Zemo. She's in Majipoor because the Power Broker is trying to make that new serum. The art theft stuff is just funding/cover.

    2> She is the Power Broker, and is way more amoral than presented, though probably not actively malicious. She isn't working with Zemo at all.

    There's also the possibility of just vague dishonesty that doesn't mean anything, which would just be bad writing for no reason since it wouldn't create a reason for the complicated cover story.

    I'm honestly leaning a bit more towards #1 at this point, but #2 is the "easier" answer, and Wandavision went with the easier answers in most cases so I'm not expecting the bigger mindfuck that is #1. Though I'm open to being pleasantly surprised.
    How could Zemo be the Power Broker if he was in jail for the last [long time] years?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    Delicious.

    Nice appetizer while I wait for Loki to debut.

    (yes, the new Star Wars trilogy is trash, but not because of anything you listed here)
    Holy shit that series looks like it's going to be amazing. I've enjoyed FWS, haven't watched WandaVision (just waiting - long binge queue); but when I saw the trailer for Loki I was already marking the calendar.

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    come on lighten up, Its disney. They are smashing it. If you cant have a laugh at the big dogs who can you have a laugh at.
    Oh, there's plenty to mock, for sure. Not the least of which is Sam's ability to fix a border crisis in approx. 2.5 minutes of talking when a few weeks(?) prior police officers didn't even recognize him, which kinda smelled like bullshit.

    I'm still not entirely sure how fast they threw together that Isaiah statue, I'd like to imagine as soon as they get out of frame, it immediately falls apart and was made out of rubber bands and paperclips propped up simply to make him feel better.

    The skybeam thing is just a silly point of contention since it was a huge problem with the genre as a whole but hasn't really been as much. Though it's telling that film quality got better as Disney had less creative control.

  4. #964
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    How did Zemo maintain his connections while locked up? Fuck, how did he know about Sharon when she didn’t become the Power Broker until he WAS locked up?
    I thought his connections were just old, from pre-lockup - and his money came from being a Baron.

  5. #965
    On second viewing, my final analysis is: great themes, undercooked and delivered slightly raw, leaving you with a bit of an aftertaste in your mouth.

    Like, just narratively, episode 6 was nowhere near the quality of 4 and 5. And unlike the above poster who thought it was all purely Zemo, I think it is more what afflicted WandaVision in its finale as well:

    1) Wanted to have your cake and eat it too (Is Karli villainous? Is she sympathetic? Is John Walker villainous? Is he an anti-hero? Is Agatha villainous? Is she a mentor figure to Wanda?) They set up these great premises, and then make them ultimately 2 dimensional in the end so no narrative uneasiness remains. I was really hoping for an ending that made the Flag-Smashers outright right in their cause, and Sam having to help them out in some way, and yet STILL be Captain America, because Captain America was about standing up for the little guy being oppressed. But nah, Karli was just a bad guy, and Sam's insistence on not fighting her felt out of place and jarring.


    2) Having to have that final battle take up so much time. Just like WandaVision, the battles look sleek and well shot/directed....but somehow the emotional resonance just falls flat in them, all the time. I didn't feel jack shit when Sam was fighting Batroc. Or Karli. Or when Sharon shot Karli. Or when Walker was fighting the Flag-Smashers. Just like I didn't feel shit when Wanda was fighting Agatha, or her boys/Monica were fighting the Feds. Ultimately, there was a brief interlude in the Vision fight WHERE THEY WEREN'T FIGHTING which made the fight a good one. And they lack the emotional resonance because the only emotional resonance you can really get in a fight scene is brutality, sacrifice, or overcoming overwhelming odds. When your protagonist is literally a legendary Nexus Being or the Stars 'N Stripes personified, there's nothing they really have to struggle with, even if there are physical feats of strength to overcome. I can't even remember Cap in the Battle of NY or in Sokovia. I remember him when he has to literally beat Tony to a pulp in Winter Soldier because he loves his friend and has to save him, something which is almost out of his hands. I remember him in Endgame because he fought an impossible fight to help bring everyone back against all odds (literally given as 1 in 14 million). And ultimately Sam's Cap suffers from his endless optimism. At the end of his speech he talks about how he can feel everyone judging him and how he has to fight through it. That's a feel good sentiment, but for people of color who have to fight through it every day, it leaves you aching and weary, not triumphant and resolute, so that piece felt a little off to me. I felt Isaiah's speech at the end of the last episode, down in my bones. And while I agree with the narrative idea of Sam having to keep fighting because of the struggles of people like Isaiah, it didn't feel like he had to fight anything on that front, either. He just had to lift a van, and suddenly the entire hoi polloi embraced him fully.

    Edit: My counter example for the above is The Dark Knight Rises. I know people thought it was a weak(er) ending to the Nolan trilogy, but what Batman goes through in that movie is the very definition of a compelling fight. Bane literally breaks him, physically and psychologically and spiritually, and leaves him to rot in literally a version of hell on earth, tormented by his failure. And he has to literally claw his way out of that pit on faith and belief and fear alone. I still catch my breath when Bruce Wayne is jumping without a rope for that final ledge while all the hopeless prisoners are daring to hope one last time. He then shows up in Gotham to fight Bane, and while the fight itself might be physically impressive and tolling, it's the emotional resonance behind it that matters. This is also why the Star Wars Episode IV fight between Alec Guinness and 70s Vader is better than any of the schlock in the prequels. It's also why I think the best fight in the sequel series was at the end of TLJ between literally a broken man fighting a projection of his fears and insecurities.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2021-04-24 at 05:21 AM.

  6. #966
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    How could Zemo be the Power Broker if he was in jail for the last [long time] years?
    The same way Kingpin was able to manage his criminal empire from behind bars...

  7. #967
    Really the dumbest thing was Zemo having a mask... that he wore for all of three seconds... just to shoot some random guys so really for no reason at all. Teasing that he might actually be the big baddie super villain in this show, but nah, it was the childish freckles girl.

  8. #968
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,267
    I agre that KArly was boring/annoying and didn't rly brought up the big villain thing.


    I think the final episode was kind rushed and a bit of a mess, wished i could see more about new captain America and bucky without crippling depression, finally realizing he have a army of vibranium(?) to fuck shit up.

    Zemo getting the last laugh was worth, and the beginning of creation of the dark avengers was also dope, the movies and series getting stick together and building up to form a big picture is something i rly appreciate, and i hope to see more of that like with the x-man, which led to my final point and question.

    Im not rly versed on hqs anymore, and specially not about many heroes, but whats the deal with Sharon and power breaker? is this something to be related to the secret invasion series and next plot of the mcu?

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I was leaning more towards Thunderbolts than Dark Avengers.
    I'd love me some Thunderbolts, but I don't think we're getting them. At least any time soon. Well, assuming Thunderbolts in their original incarnation, which imo would require a whole lot of setup to get the right payoff. I could see them maybe doing something that's a mashup of Dark Avengers and Thunderbolts, especially since I doubt the team would call itself the "Dark Avengers".

    I also think if they do Thunderbolts, it would be minus Zemo based on how the Zemo character is portrayed in the MCU. I just can't see him working with people that have powers etc.

    If they plan to give us a Thunderbolts team where the big payoff is "actually, they're villains posing as heroes", then all bets are off. I'm less interested in that personally, but doing away with that payoff certainly makes Thunderbolts more possible in the MCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And by any other name . . . Hydra.

    Seriously, let's recall that Hydra basically ran the US government. They failed to seize overt power, after controlling it from the shadows for decades, but it's trivial to connect any "shady government agency" to "yeah, totally Hydra".
    True, but I feel like the MCU won't retread the Hydra angle yet. Too much interesting stuff to do without falling back on Hydra.

  10. #970
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,898
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    1) Wanted to have your cake and eat it too (Is Karli villainous? Is she sympathetic? Is John Walker villainous? Is he an anti-hero? Is Agatha villainous? Is she a mentor figure to Wanda?) They set up these great premises, and then make them ultimately 2 dimensional in the end so no narrative uneasiness remains. I was really hoping for an ending that made the Flag-Smashers outright right in their cause, and Sam having to help them out in some way, and yet STILL be Captain America, because Captain America was about standing up for the little guy being oppressed. But nah, Karli was just a bad guy, and Sam's insistence on not fighting her felt out of place and jarring.
    On mulling it over I think I'm in agreement. They made Karli too explicitly villainous (still think there's a missing pandemic storyline that was cut for obvious reasons that would've made her and the Flagsmashers more sympathetic). They also had one inspiring speech by Sam somehow change international geopolitics in a meaningful sense, and that really just rubs me as cheap. His speech was great, and he was right, but if I were writing this, I'd have inserted a news report coda of the refugee camps being cleared out by armed forces or something; Sam's right, but plenty of world leaders are giant bags of dicks, and Captain America shaming them publicly shouldn't actually change their policy approach. Look at Steve; he was the ideal Sam was trying to live up to, and Steve failed to gain any meaningful ground in opposing the Sokovia Accords, which is why Civil War happened. Feels just too pat and easy for Sam to make one speech. Better to make that speech, get public acclaim and politically ignored, and then start taking action himself.

    2) Having to have that final battle take up so much time. Just like WandaVision, the battles look sleek and well shot/directed....but somehow the emotional resonance just falls flat in them, all the time. I didn't feel jack shit when Sam was fighting Batroc. Or Karli. Or when Sharon shot Karli. Or when Walker was fighting the Flag-Smashers.[/quote]

    Batroc was basically irrelevant; why was he even in this?

    The Sharon bit, I'll disagree; her shooting Karli was 1000% not about stopping Karli. It was about silencing someone who knew Sharon was the Power Broker. Same reason she shot Batroc, really. It set a real position for Sharon to take.

    I just feel they needed like 5 minutes of dialogue in some earlier episode to better clarify Sharon's motives. You could've figured out she was the Power Broker (I did, after her introduction), but not why, and everything she told the boys (and thus the audience) was a lie, and proven a lie by her actions in the final episode here; she clearly doesn't need a damned pardon to get back into the USA if she wants to see her family. I can accept a fall into bitterness and despair, but what does she want? I don't think we need full details, but at least differentiate between "they abandoned me, so I'll tear their precious country down around their ears" and "they abandoned me, so I'll have to garner enough power that I can pursue justice on my own, because I don't need oversight". As it stands, Sharon could be either, justifiably.

    The worst part is, like Wandavision, I feel there was like 15 minutes of dialogue that's "missing", and these shows aren't being held to strict broadcast timeslots, so they could've just included it. It's a little baffling.

    A lot of the uncertain endings for characters, like Walker and Zemo, I'm fine with, but that's probably because I'm going into these miniseries assuming they're more about setting things up than tying things off. Leaving Walker two steps down the path of darkness, and one step back towards the light, that's a good level of uncertainty, to me, because they show those steps. Sharon, we have no fucking clue; she's 83 steps down some path, but everything we see could be framed either way. Sure, she's killing people, but they're all bad people, murderers and worse. I don't know if I should be cheering her on or booing her fall. You know where you stand with Walker, right now, even if you don't know which way he'll go in the future. You're ready for him to be a dingus, but maybe he'll turn things around, like he did in the final bit here. Sharon, you can't know where you stand; she's either as big a problem as Hydra or as great a hero as Nick Fury, and there really isn't middle ground there. They left Walker at the tipping point, Sharon's well past it and the writers are fucking with us about it.


  11. #971
    Sam's speech felt like a high school student trying to debate something he did no research on and was just like "c'mon guys, be good!" as if the issues he brought up were never discussed. He has no actual stakes so he gets to look like the good guy even if there's no feasible way to do what he suggests.

    I can't buy Emily Vancamp as some criminal mastermind while Julia Louis-Dreyfus I can. Maybe it's because of their previous roles (I mostly know Emily from Everwood), but it didn't work for me.

    They're going to have to make Sam as Cap into another Iron Man where he has magic technology that makes him into a superhero. They sort of already did it in this series, but I have a feeling they'll escalate it so he can compete with actual super-powered people.

    I'd give the series as a whole a merely okay rating. The plotting and pacing were all over the place, but there were some good action scenes and some good ideas that unfortunately felt half-baked.

  12. #972
    Well I got myself a new hero. Isaiah Bradley.

    Its just so relatable to the real world. Never forget those who built your country. Never forget who made it so that we can stand here today. I felt it during that scene. Its a nice after tought, though it isn't necesserily what they were going for.

    It was nice. Show is entertaining, so bring new seasons asap.

  13. #973
    One thing that continually bugs me:

    If Sharon really is the Power Broker, why would she EVER reveal where Hagel was? What does she gain from that? Gaslighting Sam into getting her a pardon? He'd have done that even if she "did her best but oops I can't find him." Why even reveal herself to Sam and Bucky in the first place? She can still help them out of their situation with Selby in the club, but why expose herself? Why risk super soldier serum for a potential pardon when it seems like you're perfectly fine as you are in Madripoor, and any gains you get from being inside the U.S. government are entirely outweighed by HAVING A PERFECTED SUPER SOLDIER SERUM?

    It just makes no sense whatsoever, and I have to imagine there's more going on there, which will be revealed later in phase 4, which is a huge bugaboo for me about Marvel - not keeping their stories self-contained (I know, I know, most fans love the connections, but it reminds me of RML's "Hey, that's the thing I know! And I clapped!")

  14. #974
    Overall a good show.
    Sixth episode was decent, but some aspect of it was a little bit weird, and too over the top.
    What is up with Walker? He just suddenly becomes this stable person again, and decides to help out, and Sam/Bucky just accepts it at face value?

    And then you have the scene where he carries the girl(don't remember the name), and then he has a political chat with ACTUAL politicians in the middle of the street, making it seem like he has some good points. It boils down to him saying "Just make it better!", instead of what that one politician says "It's extremely complex". They could've cut that WHOLE scene out, and to me the episode would've been better.
    They also went REALLY heavy on the "look, I am black" aspect, which I feel they could've dialed a little bit back, and not done it so over the top on that last episode.


    I did like the scene towards the end, where he makes sure to honor Isaiah and what he contributed.
    Sam also makes for a very nice Captain America, so I'm glad they went with him in the end!

  15. #975
    - Walker was amazing, he's pretty much the saving grace of this show

    - Fighting scenes were crap. How can Winter Soldier have so much better fights when it was made 6 years ago?

    - They nerfed Bucky and made him Sam's sidekick. He may as well have not existed and the series would pretty much go the same. He's a Super Soldier, supposedly Steve and T'Challa's equal and yet he didn't do anything that impressive in his own show. This is that meme where the character is super strong as a villain but when he's on your team he's just a guy. Bucky was a monster in Winter Soldier, here he was just Sam's paper boy.

    - I know you Americans are loving it right now but I'm not digging all the racial angles. Yes, the world has racism. No, white people don't hate black people so much that they'd literally throw the only super soldier left in prison just because he's black. That was so stupid lmao. Like World War 2 just finished, Steve is dead, we're all normal people... but wait, we have a super soldier just as strong and fast as Captain America. So what are we gonna' do? Ask him to help us fight the good fight? Nah, let's throw him in jail because we hate black people.

    Come the fuck on.

    It was such an on the nose wink wink plotline and absolutely ridiculous and unrealistic. Racism shouldn't even exist in a world that has aliens and gods and Thanos, the moment a human gets vaporised by E.T., it becomes an Earth vs outer space type of deal, nobody's gonna' care about skin color on Earth anymore.

    - Sharon and Karli were horrible. Waste of screen time.

    - Walker and Zemo were great.

  16. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    9 posts and a join date of April 2021 makes it pretty obvious you're baiting. But even taking your argument in good faith, it's utter nonsense. Unarmed/innocent black people are murdered by police in this country every day. And the time period in which Isaiah was incarcerated was a period in which this country literally segregated black people and treated them as second class citizens. Educate yourself about history before you expose your ignorance.

    Karli and Bucky were a waste though. At least we can agree on that. Bucky shoulda wiped the floor with most of those scrubs and Karli was just "meh."
    Not a superpowered one who can jump out of 10 story buildings and kill people with 1 punch, no. There is no reality in which a military sees what is basically a god among men and goes " Haha racism goes brrrr ". Hitler himself would gladly welcome such a soldier. Hell he fucking beat the Winter Soldier ( supposedly ), for a few decades he was the deadliest man on the planet. And you're telling me a military throws him in a jail because they don't like black people? How on the nose can this be?

    You're telling me to read real history to know why saying this superhero plot line is stupid. Bruh moment.

  17. #977
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,267
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    There is no reality in which a military sees what is basically a god among men and goes " Haha racism goes brrrr ". Hitler himself would gladly welcome such a soldier. Hell he fucking beat the Winter Soldier ( supposedly ), for a few decades he was the deadliest man on the planet. And you're telling me a military throws him in a jail because they don't like black people? How on the nose can this be?.
    thats the thing with racism, is irrational, it make no sense, but people do anyway, and yep they imprison him to milk his blood tying to replicate the serum.

  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    You're telling me to read real history to know why saying this superhero plot line is stupid. Bruh moment.
    He was in jail to be continuously experimented on, though. They wanted to recreate the serum WHILE still maintaining that kind of shitty belief system. You can be at peak theoretical human performance and still be treated like a commodity.

    Also, Hitler was historically proven wrong about the whole Aryan business, for example, by Jesse Owens in 1936. His beliefs held firm and his heart didn't grow three sizes. Hatred and bigotry are inherently not rational, they don't really fit with the marketplace of ideas and evidence that goes for or against them.

    I do agree that Marvel's backdrop has very extreme circumstances (aliens, gods, wizards, etc.) and it definitely feels like a different universe with different rules, but I feel like if you're going to have Captain America be black, you need to address certain elephants in the room.

    It's also the fact that these aren't new to the setting. Sam Wilson was introduced as a social worker rather than a soldier (then retconned to have been secretly a criminal and gangbanger with memory erase fuckery, then retconned back again). Much of the stories with him and Steve in the 70s were rooted in racial issues of the time...because it was the 70s.

    Fantastical settings realistically SHOULD be devoid of a lot of these issues (I'm reminded of Jennifer Hepler trying to force aesops about homophobia into Mass Effect, a setting about the golden age of fucking space travel), but since they need to reflect topical concepts that the viewers can connect with, they're not going to omit them entirely.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Ok kiddo. Talking in Reddit memes isn't going to do you any credit. As someone who actually served in the military, I can tell you firsthand that some of the best Marines I've ever known--people with bronze stars and impeccable records--got shitcanned for things as simple as being gay or incarcerated for minor altercations with egotistical officers who were getting their squadmates killed. While the show is far from realistic, a "super soldier" being imprisoned because he defied orders but still had monetary/research values completely tracks with the innumerable real-world examples of how shitty the military can be to black people (Tuskegee airmen, anyone?) and its heroes.

    Anyway, muting you, because you've made it abundantly clear you're not hear to discuss in good faith. Best of luck hanging that bait hook out, and maybe find a better hobby eh?
    Ok kiddo
    Cringe.

    As someone who actually served in the military, I can tell you firsthand that some of the best Marines I've ever known--people with bronze stars and impeccable records--got shitcanned
    Those are normal people. Not supersoldiers. Not basically demigods.

    Anyway, muting you
    Real tough guy, thank you for your service.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thats the thing with racism, is irrational, it make no sense, but people do anyway, and yep they imprison him to milk his blood tying to replicate the serum.

    They could've taken blood samples while also using his abilities in actual warfare.

    It's also ridiculous that they had his blood for 30 years and never achieved anything with it. In Agent Carter ( LOL as if a nyone watched that ) Steve's blood is treated as some serious shit, why? I mean they apparently had a handy non ice-cubed super soldier back home.

    Trolling isn't allowed. Infracted.
    Last edited by Faltemer; 2021-04-24 at 10:58 PM.

  20. #980
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,898
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If Sharon really is the Power Broker, why would she EVER reveal where Hagel was? What does she gain from that?
    They stole the serum from her. She knows Sam and Bucky are on that trail too, and it was easier for her to insert herself than to try and work against them. That's how I read it.

    Gaslighting Sam into getting her a pardon? He'd have done that even if she "did her best but oops I can't find him."
    It's a cover story. She needs to justify why she's in Madripoor and what she's been doing. It also makes her seem like she needs help, and they're both suckers for that stuff.

    Why even reveal herself to Sam and Bucky in the first place? She can still help them out of their situation with Selby in the club, but why expose herself?
    First, ask yourself why she had a sniper in place targeting Selby in the first place.
    My best guess is that Selby was a problem for <insert reason>, and Sharon was going to remove the problem, and then Sam and Bucky walked in the door. Everything seemed tossed together over the next couple hours, IMO, because it was.

    Why risk super soldier serum for a potential pardon when it seems like you're perfectly fine as you are in Madripoor, and any gains you get from being inside the U.S. government are entirely outweighed by HAVING A PERFECTED SUPER SOLDIER SERUM?
    She developed that serum. She explicitly calls our Karli for betraying her by stealing it, in the final confrontation. She didn't risk the serum; Karli really did steal it and she really was trying to get it back. The pardon's just an opportunity, but she had reason to insert herself with Sam and Bucky to try and keep tabs on their pursuit of the serum even without the offer of a pardon; that just makes it seem like they're the ones helping HER out, rather than vice versa.

    The pardon's still of value because she's worked that into re-inserting herself with the US government, which will help make up a lot of the loss of the serum, if not more.

    I get what you're saying, but I think this was all adequately explained in the show. What we don't know is if Sharon's motive is "be the biggest, baddest crime boss because fuck the law, man" or "the US government is corrupt and stupid and I'm gonna slap a saddle on Madripoor and reform it into a force for justice". We don't actually see her kill anyone who isn't at least arguably a super bad person. Selby was gonna murder Sam and Bucky, Batroc's, well, Batroc, and shot her too. And Karli was giving Sam a run for his money, and had killed a bunch of people. She's definitely more ruthless and has less mercy in her than pre-Snap, but I'm not convinced she's actually villainous yet.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •