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  1. #21
    So far I am loving assassination rogue. Sims wanted me to make the Doomblade legendary. So I did. But so far my guild ran normal raid last night and I was kicking ass. We run our heroic this coming Friday so I will test it more then. But I am really liking it.

    Now I am hearing mixed opinions about Venthyr. Some like it and some do not. Some say it hits hard and some say it does not. Gonna try and sim it before I even dare to make a switch. But yeah, assassin is back in. If I had to bitch, and that is a IF, then it would be a little tweaking needs to be done more for better energy regen.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    So far I am loving assassination rogue. Sims wanted me to make the Doomblade legendary. So I did. But so far my guild ran normal raid last night and I was kicking ass. We run our heroic this coming Friday so I will test it more then. But I am really liking it.

    Now I am hearing mixed opinions about Venthyr. Some like it and some do not. Some say it hits hard and some say it does not. Gonna try and sim it before I even dare to make a switch. But yeah, assassin is back in. If I had to bitch, and that is a IF, then it would be a little tweaking needs to be done more for better energy regen.
    Deeper Stratagem sims the best right now for single target but if you want more energy and a smoother rotation you can easily take Vigor with only a minor loss.

    I love that Talent row because they all are very close in performance but offer different playstyles. It’s the same for Outlaw.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    You're only getting energy from poison procs with the Dashing Scoundrel legendary, Venomous Wounds only gives energy on Rupture and Garrote ticks.
    Yeah, my bad. Anyway, even more devaluation for SnD.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    So far I am loving assassination rogue. Sims wanted me to make the Doomblade legendary. So I did. But so far my guild ran normal raid last night and I was kicking ass. We run our heroic this coming Friday so I will test it more then. But I am really liking it.

    Now I am hearing mixed opinions about Venthyr. Some like it and some do not. Some say it hits hard and some say it does not. Gonna try and sim it before I even dare to make a switch. But yeah, assassin is back in. If I had to bitch, and that is a IF, then it would be a little tweaking needs to be done more for better energy regen.
    I've yet to craft the legendary as i didn't do Torghast for months and rank 4 legendaries are not a priority to me - albeit they're free stats. The cost is just through the roof A rank 3 pair of gloves on the other side is only 25k so basically i'm gonna craft those i suppose. Stat wise they're the same fro Doomblade.

    I was Venthyr from day 1, and new Flagellation is huge. Way more reliable, no more clunkyness, and the stacked haste definitely impacts the rotation. It's like a mini bloodlust. For Assa is seems that the Flag conduit is even BiS, but i'd have to sim my character.

    Sidenote, raided as outlaw yesterday and dps improved a lot without touching anything. Must be the combo of new Flagellation and the Count the Odds fix so they don't get overwritten badly. I see defintely less rerolls of RtB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Deeper Stratagem sims the best right now for single target but if you want more energy and a smoother rotation you can easily take Vigor with only a minor loss.

    I love that Talent row because they all are very close in performance but offer different playstyles. It’s the same for Outlaw.
    I only dislike the fact i cannot run CT/Exsang Alacrity and poison bomb are just that much better.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  4. #24
    Dreadlord
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    Assa lost huge dmg from azerite traits and essences and is still thirsty for substats. You can play assa but it's nothing compared to bfa

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Yeah, my bad. Anyway, even more devaluation for SnD.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I've yet to craft the legendary as i didn't do Torghast for months and rank 4 legendaries are not a priority to me - albeit they're free stats. The cost is just through the roof A rank 3 pair of gloves on the other side is only 25k so basically i'm gonna craft those i suppose. Stat wise they're the same fro Doomblade.

    I was Venthyr from day 1, and new Flagellation is huge. Way more reliable, no more clunkyness, and the stacked haste definitely impacts the rotation. It's like a mini bloodlust. For Assa is seems that the Flag conduit is even BiS, but i'd have to sim my character.

    Sidenote, raided as outlaw yesterday and dps improved a lot without touching anything. Must be the combo of new Flagellation and the Count the Odds fix so they don't get overwritten badly. I see defintely less rerolls of RtB.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I only dislike the fact i cannot run CT/Exsang Alacrity and poison bomb are just that much better.
    Yeah Blizzard dropped the ball with Alacrity. That talent is so powerful that the row is entirely dead. Maybe it will change once we have more haste, but there is a good chance that Alacrity will be the only viable option for the entire expansion.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Yeah Blizzard dropped the ball with Alacrity. That talent is so powerful that the row is entirely dead. Maybe it will change once we have more haste, but there is a good chance that Alacrity will be the only viable option for the entire expansion.
    I'm of the idea that when something like this happens, it should become baseline for a class/spec. Make alacrity passive for Assa at a reduced effect (to keep things in line and not overbuff) and redo the talent row. They're perfectly able to do something like that - the DS/Vigor row is just perfect.

    I don't have a problem with cookie-cutter builds, if there are viable options. Sligthly less dmg for ease of use is a good tradeoff in my eyes - lean towards simpler rotation when you're progressing, swap to more throughput when you have a solid grasp of the fights.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I'm of the idea that when something like this happens, it should become baseline for a class/spec. Make alacrity passive for Assa at a reduced effect (to keep things in line and not overbuff) and redo the talent row. They're perfectly able to do something like that - the DS/Vigor row is just perfect.

    I don't have a problem with cookie-cutter builds, if there are viable options. Sligthly less dmg for ease of use is a good tradeoff in my eyes - lean towards simpler rotation when you're progressing, swap to more throughput when you have a solid grasp of the fights.
    Exactly. A talent like Vigor shouldn’t offer better performance than Deeper Stratagem because it makes the rotation more comfortable. However it should be close in performance which it is currently.

    Having these good trade offs between talents are good design. It should either be based on gameplay (ease of use vs performance) or based on encounter type (aoe vs st).

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Exactly. A talent like Vigor shouldn’t offer better performance than Deeper Stratagem because it makes the rotation more comfortable. However it should be close in performance which it is currently.

    Having these good trade offs between talents are good design. It should either be based on gameplay (ease of use vs performance) or based on encounter type (aoe vs st).
    Agree. I know they don't want to make players change specs/talents/covenants etc on an encounter basis, but people do that anyway, in the limits Blizzard has set. To me it's just improving playstyle to have niche options like you said.

    In the specific case of Vigor and DS, they're both not complicated at all - DS makes the rotation slower and less smooth which enphasizes the pooling part of Assa. I'm just gonna go Vigor all the time, i find it just more comfortable.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  9. #29
    So I have noticed something. I cannot seem to get away from venom rush talent. I just feel my rotation is way more smoother as far as energy regen goes. So what I am doing is making myself take alacrity to try and wean myself off of venom rush. I did find myself have better regen after getting the full stacks of alacrity.

    Edit...I am still learning the ends and outs of playing a rogue. I will admit I am new to rogue. Been playing one since mid BFA. I have been a warlock for 17 years. So if you guys have any pointers for me, I am humble enough to take all advice so I can "Get Gud"
    Last edited by Aggressive; 2021-03-11 at 12:51 PM.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Deeper Stratagem sims the best right now for single target but if you want more energy and a smoother rotation you can easily take Vigor with only a minor loss.

    I love that Talent row because they all are very close in performance but offer different playstyles. It’s the same for Outlaw.
    what are requirements for Stratagem to be a better talent? because its a dps loss for me


    cut to the chase changes and simply getting more haste compared to start of xpack (when i rolled to outlaw first time in 6 years...) makes assassination soo much more enjoyable now

    especially cleave feels so good, even using doomblade instead of zoldyc on huntsman hc i did like 7.4k dps (on 4min fight so no 3rd vendetta) which compared to what i was able to do as outlaw and before as assa is just insane to me (tho to be fair obviously im worse as outlaw skill wise)
    Last edited by Finear; 2021-03-12 at 12:00 AM.

  11. #31
    Honestly, Assassination is in a great place now and is just underplayed/underrepresented. It's likely going to take more time for everyone to realize that or additional 'overbuffs' to push people into it. It's just really versatile, especially since you can flex mastery some to better fit multitarget boss fights. All in all, it really shines multitarget but what I've noticed is most/newer rogues struggle with that rotation, especially after just being able to pop blade flurry and call it a day.

    Sin will be very FOTM sooner or later, just a matter of time. I've always enjoy the playstyle so I'll take all the buffs I can get and enjoy being an 'underperforming spec' while it last, even though, at least in raiding, you basically smash all other rogue specs, even if they outgear you like 10 ilvls. Mythic+ is pretty similar but likely Outlaw still has edge there outside of lucky procs but I don't have the data to make an educated statement on that.

    tldr: Sin is in a great spot and will only get better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willhouse View Post
    Chill,wow classic is gonna last 2 months top once ppl see how horrid it was,theres gonna be 10k ppl online across all classic realms within 2 months.Meanwhile i'm preparing my "i told you so.." speech XD

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    what are requirements for Stratagem to be a better talent? because its a dps loss for me


    cut to the chase changes and simply getting more haste compared to start of xpack (when i rolled to outlaw first time in 6 years...) makes assassination soo much more enjoyable now

    especially cleave feels so good, even using doomblade instead of zoldyc on huntsman hc i did like 7.4k dps (on 4min fight so no 3rd vendetta) which compared to what i was able to do as outlaw and before as assa is just insane to me (tho to be fair obviously im worse as outlaw skill wise)
    Deeper Stratagem should be the best if you go 33 on the two first talent rows. But if you go 22 then Vigor will still be the best.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Deeper Stratagem should be the best if you go 33 on the two first talent rows. But if you go 22 then Vigor will still be the best.
    Yeah I noticed that now, I was running EP+MA in that case DS was a dps loss but once I switched to blindside, DS is 32 dps increase

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    Yeah I noticed that now, I was running EP+MA in that case DS was a dps loss but once I switched to blindside, DS is 32 dps increase
    But again, it’s a minor difference which is awesome. It allows players who prefer the extra energy from Vigor to still go with it without a huge loss in performance. On the other hand Deeper Stratagem allows you to activate Rupture less often so it’s really a question of preferable playstyle

  15. #35
    Simming my char, best option looks to be BS+MA, by a wide margin (especially due to MA, probably i have low crit chance on my gear since i'm using the gear i had for outlaw).
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But again, it’s a minor difference which is awesome. It allows players who prefer the extra energy from Vigor to still go with it without a huge loss in performance. On the other hand Deeper Stratagem allows you to activate Rupture less often so it’s really a question of preferable playstyle
    yup thats really nice, in general i prefer more energy, DS is kinda boring and slow but after 10min runs on dummy yesterday it seems like i was getting slightly better results on BS+MA+DS by like 100-150dps but thats just dummy


    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Simming my char, best option looks to be BS+MA, by a wide margin (especially due to MA, probably i have low crit chance on my gear since i'm using the gear i had for outlaw).
    out of curiosity, what's your crit? im sitting at both crit and haste at 23% and EP+MA is 31 dps higher than BS+MA

    both with vigor, once i go DS then BS+MA is 32 dps increase

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    out of curiosity, what's your crit? im sitting at both crit and haste at 23% and EP+MA is 31 dps higher than BS+MA

    both with vigor, once i go DS then BS+MA is 32 dps increase
    I'm specced outlaw so armory shows 23% crit and 18% haste. I would have run a talent compare on raidbots with the exact numbers. I have also a 226 MH so that may skew the balance onto BS since i can do harder hitting ambushes.

    I always sim gear and talents when i get new stuff, so it may probably change oevr time. I also always sim "light movement" and not "patchwerk" for a more realistic idea.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I have also a 226 MH so that may skew the balance onto BS since i can do harder hitting ambushes.
    oh yeah thats probably why, im super unlucky with weapons, i just got 220 from vault 2-3 weeks ago and i took it for outlaw, so im still stuck with 213 dagger

    6 Sire kills and literally 0 drop

  19. #39
    Can anyone tell me why nobody is using dashing scoundral legendary despite it being 2nd in sims for hectic cleave and st? And only slightly behind the top for each, though i am unsure about sims since it shows essence of bloodfang as the top hectic cleave legendary.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by mitre27 View Post
    Can anyone tell me why nobody is using dashing scoundral legendary despite it being 2nd in sims for hectic cleave and st? And only slightly behind the top for each, though i am unsure about sims since it shows essence of bloodfang as the top hectic cleave legendary.
    A finite resource needed to craft it?

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