Gearing alts feel so stupid now

[Jotaux]

The problem with pvp at the moment is you get these huge power boosts at 1400, 1600, 1800 and 2100. Thats a 6-7 ilvl jump at every interval. A new character is going to have a much harder time than one that pushed earlier in the season. Early in the season you were only upgrading 1-2 pieces at each interval because you didn't have the conquest for a full set to upgrade.

[munkeyinorbit]

Ah, I see, with 'few hours' you mean probably around 24-48 depending on Renown luck from random nonsense activities - which are all just so incredibly easy to do when you're starting out in 165 ilvl. Giga quick and definitely just not as long, tedious, boring and dreadful as spamming 50 BGs.

It's closer to 5 hours. If it's taking you 24 hours then you are just doing it wrong.

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Why do ppl keep suggesting renown gear that has almost zero versa on it

Its not really pvp viable for anything above 1600 rating when u start meeting 226 boosters every second game

Because it's better than 168 gear with no vers on it. The gear is viable for 1600. If you're actually any good you should win 50% of matches. If you're not then you're done with progression. It's that simple.

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If it took you an entire cap to get 1.6mmr its your l2p issue

I am 1800 on my alt with 195 ilvl but its extremely hard to get gear because I go against 226 ppl and losing gives no conquest

Bit if you're so good then you should win half your matches. You said you only meet 226 every second march. If you're not winning then your progression is done. See you next patch.

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2 completly different groups raging

1 group wants real pvp with pvp templates - those are skilled pvp players

2 group - want to collect gear to 1 shot and pwn noobs - those people have 0 pvp skills only depend on meta class and gear to win .

SL is expansion catered towards 2nd group . thats why pvp is dead.

And that's why PvP engagement is at its highest level for years. PvP is not dead, it's alive and kicking.

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An fair and even playing field is not a big ask. I don't even want it for me because I will always get a decenet amount of gear before stepping into PvP (usually don't start on a healer until I'm 180, or 185 for a DPS). I just don't want my team to get globaled in every fight making the entire match pointless.

If your entire team is getting globalled in every fight then PvP progression is over for you. You could try WQs. They drop better gear than 185.

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Gearing in pvp is stupid atm. I have 213ilvl and in order to upgrade my gear i need 1800 rating. The problem is no one invites me with 213 gear above 1700 so i am always stuck at 1600/1700 rating. And i don't want to do pve to get gear ...

Start your own groups. Then you get to decide who is invited.

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yes but to get that conquest to upgrade the items i need to win games vs 220 players, do you not understand the issue here?
to get 220 gear i need to win 220 players with 195 ilvl?

How about you get better gear that isn't 220. Then you won't be 195 anymore. You can even do it in PvP.

[Enclave]

It's closer to 5 hours. If it's taking you 24 hours then you are just doing it wrong.

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Because it's better than 168 gear with no vers on it. The gear is viable for 1600. If you're actually any good you should win 50% of matches. If you're not then you're done with progression. It's that simple.

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Bit if you're so good then you should win half your matches. You said you only meet 226 every second march. If you're not winning then your progression is done. See you next patch.

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And that's why PvP engagement is at its highest level for years. PvP is not dead, it's alive and kicking.

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If your entire team is getting globalled in every fight then PvP progression is over for you. You could try WQs. They drop better gear than 185.

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Start your own groups. Then you get to decide who is invited.

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How about you get better gear that isn't 220. Then you won't be 195 anymore. You can even do it in PvP.

So much coping, how much is blizz paying you to defend their shitty game?

[Tyrannica]

How can anyone just have ilvl195 when you are at 1800 rating?

This meta is more about bringing the correct classes, i saw a ret hitting 10k TV and another 10k FR with trash gear, ilvl 185. My affliction lock ilvl 220, 32% versatility cannot do this burst in the same 1 second as the ret and certainly does not have proper defensives like him, and thats kinda comedy gold.

Anyways, when mages start to be much more tankier than locks something isn't right in the first place.

Gearing a Ret alt should be nobodys business, really.

Heck, i do it right now, so i could too see, how brilliant the class balance and class pvp design of this game is.


Now that i think about it, wow used to have only 2 class designers there is no hint that they got a pvp class designer, which explains the big difference in performance of locks in pve and pvp.

You can just play a meta class/spec and ignore this, but it angers me that such a big company does not have proper resources to deal with pvp class design at all.

Gearing progression is rather secondary to that, but of course we got better systems in TBC, MoP and WoD for that.

[Bats]

I'd be fine with the conquest cap, the problem is getting any sort of rating to upgrade the gear because people with good gear from PvE, being boosted or from the beginning of the season are stuck at all levels from 1k to 2k.

Every time you play there's at least one gladiator boosting team with 40k hp around 1500 to 2k. Every time you climb with appropriate gear after 1400 (so 207) you meet 1 team in 50 games with the same gear as you between 1400 and 1600. Every game you're outgeared on a disadvantage and you gotta play almost perfectly, especially in 2s, to win some of these games.

It's incredibly frustrating for average players that just enjoy arenas to play at this time during the season. I hope they just add an ilvl cap on each bracket for next season and leave it as is, wouldn't want anything else, just fair games while climbing.

[gobio]

Reading this thread really... wow...

I understand if you are pro current system saying you believe this game is RPG first, PVP second. So even in rated game, a degree or aspect of world pvp should be in it.
Fine, it is just opinion. Respect.

But one guy defend this "old guard should have actual advantage regardless of kill" to the point that he jump to basketball, scribble, to defend WOW. WOW how does that even work... My mind is blown LOL.

Or is that designer made custom nike shoe really makes you jump higher?

[Tumile]

Except that even with full renown gear you have maybe 10% vers and get completely dumpstered in arena. Honestly, they just need to bring back pvp scaling in arena. It would also help to alleviate the current problem with going up against constant 226 carries.

no. just no. if u dont know why its a huge fucking no, then u know nothing about pvp scaling.

[annamoa]

Gear progression has no place in pvp. it should give only cosmetic rewards. You know, like in pretty much every pvp dedicated game around. But wow clings to the "rewards should be better gear because wow is a rpg" dogma like flies on shit. Also I guess "gear with bigger numbers" costs nothing to produce, unlike cosmetics.

But failing that, there should at least not be that much disparity between low end and high end pvp gear.

Rewarding people who win at pvp (so they're already better in the first place!) with becoming mechanically much more powerful creates a slippery slope situation, which is a well known game design pitfall that wow just loves to wallow in.

[reemi]

Playing Skirmish or Random BG is stupid now.

Yesterday I did my 1000 honor Skrimish on 2 character, one was 190 DPS (0 CR) and other one is 220 Healer (1900 CR)

It's so random... even with my higher level, if you are matched with a guy who have 25k hp... its hard to win.

Same with BG, lot of people are one shoting my DPS,

After, I did my RBG Quests....

I had more fun and it was easier to play in YOLO rated BG at CR0.

[Depakote]

We had good system in Legion. Small buff for it level, but generally we were at the same level. Just skill, no gear. Why Blizzard kicked it out? I would like play more pvp, with more alts if we have it back. Now i have to gear up another character if i want play and be useful, even at random.

Like someone else said if by Legion you mean Warlords of Draenor then sure but if not then you're just making things up. Gearing for PvP and possibly PvE (can't remember that one well enough) was the best ever was during that expansion.

[roboscorcher]

And here we have it: Another time the wow community doesn't know what it wants.
The whole of 2020 forums raged about pvp scaling like it's the worst feature ever.
(Don't ask me btw, I don't know shit about pvp, just pointing it out)

It's almost as if both systems have negative side effects, and picking either option will piss certain people off.

Just like real life.

[Necromantic]

It's almost as if both systems have negative side effects, and picking either option will piss certain people off.

Just like real life.

It's because you have people who absolutely have to have an edge over others in order to succeed. If you put them on equal grounds, their flaws are revealed. That's why those people hated templates. You had people who were R13/14 who AFK'd to get their gear but when you take the gear out, they're nothing special at all. Or twinks who buy their success on the AH. Take that advantage away, they're sitting ducks.

[Yhcti]

Got my Hunter to 215 in 2 weeks of farming, wasn't that stressful, though it is annoying.

It was much easier on my Priest/Paladin/Druid/Shaman as I could atleast heal myself..

Anyway, do daily BG, Epic BG, Skirmish and RBG win if you can, do the 2 weekly quests, then I would just spam queue into epic bg's whilst at work and semi-afk them.

Had some friends help me do a +14 both resets which gave me items, and I bought the 226 boe wrist, boots and ring off AH (everyone has gold nowadays, it's so easy to get).

Now I have 6 toons at 220+ and 1 at 215 :X can I afk until 9.1 now?

[nvaelz]

It's closer to 5 hours. If it's taking you 24 hours then you are just doing it wrong.

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Because it's better than 168 gear with no vers on it. The gear is viable for 1600. If you're actually any good you should win 50% of matches. If you're not then you're done with progression. It's that simple.

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Bit if you're so good then you should win half your matches. You said you only meet 226 every second march. If you're not winning then your progression is done. See you next patch.

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And that's why PvP engagement is at its highest level for years. PvP is not dead, it's alive and kicking.

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If your entire team is getting globalled in every fight then PvP progression is over for you. You could try WQs. They drop better gear than 185.

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Start your own groups. Then you get to decide who is invited.

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How about you get better gear that isn't 220. Then you won't be 195 anymore. You can even do it in PvP.

Retail is all about not having any friends. That's how you get ahead in a piece of garbage game design.

[ElDoorO]

Because for some people they want gear to matter. They can't handle requiring actual skill.
This is why a top 100 with 180 iLvl won't win against a 213 iLvl. They'll just get melted. This is what Ion specifically said he wanted. Gear to cover the skill gap. PvP isn't about fair or about being balanced.

This is also why WoW's PvP is never taken seriously. Skill isn't a requirement as much as gear is. It's why CS:GO and such are still the dominant actual competitions. You can't mask your poor skill with gear in games like that. You either have it ... or you don't.

I would suggest finding a new game if you want to take PvP seriously. Otherwise, you're just going to be frustrated.

[Necromantic]

Because for some people they want gear to matter. They can't handle requiring actual skill.
This is why a top 100 with 180 iLvl won't win against a 213 iLvl. They'll just get melted.

I'm on the fence about the whole "gear matters most" argument because mathematically, it's true however, it doesn't always end up that way. People talk even in classic about it but I lost count how many people even back then that were decked out in purples that I massacred in blues. Bad players wearing good gear are still bad players.

[villie]

We had good system in Legion. Small buff for it level, but generally we were at the same level. Just skill, no gear. Why Blizzard kicked it out? I would like play more pvp, with more alts if we have it back. Now i have to gear up another character if i want play and be useful, even at random.

The legion system was only good for certain classes, and because of that it was also an example of how bad blizzard are at understanding how to balance certain classes for pvp. Because of the template system certain classes fell short of their scaling potential purley because blizz did not give them enough secondary stats to allow them to function as well as they could have, fire mages being a good example.

I am all for a templated system for stats and rewards being cosmetic (titles, mounts etc) however the template in terms of stats must be left to the control of the player not some out of touch dev who doesnt understand why half of certain classes would opt for more crit or haste for a spec in pvp for example, purely because they dont play that class at a high rating level. Leaving it to the players ensures that they have control of how they want to play their class/spec so retains the RPG aspect of building your character up with gear.

This template would have a budget in terms of allocated stats per patch alingned with the amount of stats available on gear from the current pve content so they marry up. Buy gear customise which stats you want on it similar to how we do our legendaries in retail and no switching back. This then leaves pure damage output to balance in terms of raw output which was what we had also in legion.

That or just switch to the WoD system, it worked and everyone pretty much was happy with it. The only ones currently complaining about what we are getting in 9.1 are those that "dont want to have to farm two sets of gear". Well guess what, tough shit, its for the betterment of the game and not to pander to those that are lazy or dont have enough time to do all content, thats life i'm afraid you are not entitled to everything without the effort that comes with it in my opinion.

[intenz]

The conquest point rate should be dynamic based on your total points vs how many points are available. For example it should start off fast and then gradually slow to the normal rate. So you should be able to farm up a few pieces much faster than normal and bridge the gap.