Why can't we have Valor like we had in Mist and Wod

[Clash the DK]

That's not an answer as to why we should start giving HC or Mythic level loot to people who don't even do the bare minimum of challenging content.

Every level of play has its own gear progression appropriate for that level already. You get better WQ items the up to a point, then you can go do low M+ and Normal raids and work yourself up as everybody has to.
What you're talking about already exists.

The issue is that you are trying to justify giving high ilvl loot for the lowest possible activity.
There is already a way to acquire high ilvl loot: do the content associated with it.

Simple, right?

It's absolutely an answer whether you like it or not.

There is no reason why WQ and world content gear shouldn't slow scale to max ilvl per tier cycle. That gives a long path of character progression for the majority of people playing this game. Gear progression should be equal out in the world no matter what type of activities you choose to advance your character. I will die on that hill.

And then there is things like Torghast. Why must you specialize in one area of the game to be successful there? That's more content being artificially walled off to casuals and is honestly a bad business decision by Blizzard.

But like I said, if you raid, your raid gear should be better in raids. And if you run M+, your dungeon gear should be better in dungeons. Raiders shouldn't have to run M+ to gear for Raids and vice versa or participate in PvP for that matter. You should be able to do what you like and advance your character.

That is simplicity.

[Argorwal]

It's absolutely an answer whether you like it or not.

There is no reason why WQ and world content gear shouldn't slow scale to max ilvl per tier cycle. That gives a long path of character progression for the majority of people playing this game. Gear progression should be equal out in the world no matter what type of activities you choose to advance your character. I will die on that hill.

And then there is things like Torghast. Why must you specialize in one area of the game to be successful there? That's more content being artificially walled off to casuals and is honestly a bad business decision by Blizzard.

But like I said, if you raid, your raid gear should be better in raids. And if you run M+, your dungeon gear should be better in dungeons. Raiders shouldn't have to run M+ to gear for Raids and vice versa or participate in PvP for that matter. You should be able to do what you like and advance your character.

That is simplicity.

Simplicity is gear is just gear, which is what we have now.

[Clash the DK]

Simplicity is gear is just gear, which is what we have now.

There is also such a thing as too simple.

[Surfacin9]

heres the problem . such player would have to refarm those items from scratch becaue he wont be able to upgrade items he had before 9.0.5.

so first he hast to farm for very specific loot slots in mode that drops next to no loot and then run it over and over and over again to unlock all dungeons on 10.
why bother when you can get much better resoults if you just 1x+10 a week.
and maaaaybe if loot was worth it - but it will all reset in 9.1 . so all this farm will be pointless.
its to little to late.

That's the way you see it - refarming from scratch. The way I see it - the item you will get from now on will be more valuable since you can upgrade them. You don't have to redo the achievement if you have it. And let's say if you don't have all done on +10 or aren't close to it, you are either playing dungeons too little (may be just 1 per week which in your opinion yields better results) or you are bad. The first one is the problem of interest/dedication and you shouldn't complain about not getting loot from content you don't enjoy and don't do. As for the 2nd one, there's always a lot of welfare gear which is decent enough but not as good as mythic level. And 'bad' shouldn't be rewarded as much as 'mediocre' or 'good'.

If you enjoy m+, you will keep running it, you WILL be getting some items that you will be able to upgrade. You could argue - let us upgrade the items we already have, we earned them. And you will have a valid point. Although an even bigger problem would arise from that though - everyone would feel pressured to run more and more dungeons to upgrade every single piece. When right now, with the current loot acquisition rate from m+, by the time you get an item you'd have the VPs (or be close to the amount) to upgrade it. Imho its not perfect, but more balanced than a forced VP grind.

As for your last statement - all loot eventually becomes pointless. But if that's what you want to focus at - what's the point of getting that said loot? If new content will have higher ilvl, and likely have some sort of catch-up gear. Here's the point - loot you earned is used by you to progress within the current content, and let you start the next piece of content when it releases at a higher step (not from +2s in 9.1, but from +7s, for example), next raid's normal gear will matter less for you, so you can start with hc or have an easier time clearing normal fast.

So just that undestand that correctly...
If someone doesn't raid or M+ his item progression stops at roughly itemlevel 197.
If he wants better gear your answer is "do M+ or suck it".

But when someone doesn't raid but does M+ and his item progression stops at itemlevel 210, your answer isn't "do raids or suck it" but you want some extra progression points to give you better gear?
Seems pretty biased to me.

There's 3 types of end-game currently: raid, m+ and pvp. Each has their own gearing system and ilvl. If someone doesn't do any of that, its their choice. But if they are not doing the end-game content, what do they need the gear for? They are already handed a good enough ilvl for outdoor content, and enough to join low keys, LFR/normal for better gear (I don't include PVP, because I don't do it and am not too familiar with the current system). Gear has been the main character progression since the start - you do content - you get aproppriate rewards. So, yes, if they want better gear they should either raid, or pvp or do m+. All systems are extremely accessible and players have all the means to find something suitable for them.

When someone does M+, they progression also stops at 226, since that's the highest GV reward ilvl that you can achieve by running m+. That's equal to mythic raid ilvl. And guess what, when a raider kills a mythic boss - they have access to only 1-2 226 ilvl items that drop from that boss. To access the next boss'es loot table, you need to progress it which sometimes takes several resets. With increasing difficuty of bosses, an average mythic raider will get to kill 5-7 bosses during the patch'es lifespan. Compare that to a M+ runner, who get access through the vault to all of their suitable gear.

So you are right, that's what I'm saying - you don't have to raid to get 226 ilvl gear. So you're fine, if you just do m+ at +14-15 level and end up having similar ilvl to a mythic raider (I'm not including the loot from the last 2 bosses on mythic, since its only earned by a small fraction and shouldn't be taken into consideration, plus the extra 4 ilvl on a few items won't make or break your character). May be, depending on who you compare to, since the pool of mythic raiding guilds is pretty big and each has their own pace and limits, it can be slower.

And there's no bias in it, these are the facts.

2) point 2 i not fully agree. considering how man ppl and money they have, the amount of content they offering is rather low. but that doesnt matter most for me. what matters is that i find it rather obvious that they try to avoid doing real content as much as possible. simply because new zones, new dungeons and new real content costs relative much money and investment. what i critizize is the „milk the cow“ mode, wow is in, where they try to stretch the lifespan and makin most profit with the least possible investment. if you be honest, even you have to accept that there is 1 big patch in 1 year, with 1 zone, quests and 1 dungeon and 1 raid. this is rather less investment. or, as option, do a comparisson between i.e. of the amount of raids between TBC and lets say Legion or BfA. TBC had Gruul, Mag, Hyjal, BT, TK, SSC, Sunwell. Legion had cheap shit Nightmare, Nighthold, Trial (lets even out this with Gruul+Mag), Tomb and Antorus. this means 6 (Gruul+Mag as 1) good raids versus 4 good raids and 1 cheap shit raid.

tinfoil: you dont need much tinfoil here. its a multibillion dollars company and a 15 year old game. i am not trying to find arguments for the big bad conspiracy by Blizzard. also my comparrisson above between 6 high quality raids versus 4 raids is not that huuuuuge difference. but besides the fact that exactly the raids is the corner wow still try to hold most quality (in other corners its is waaaay worse), is it obvious and also totally normal that thre is a decay.

I get your point. But we all know its business, they will do stuff to earn money. But I just don't quite agree with many posters on this forum that everything blizzard does is to milk the game, to get more MAUs, to stretch the content, when there are far more logical answers to that. Their focus isn't just on making money (which is high on priority list for them - if the game doesn't make money, they stop making it), they do need to make gameplay decisions. Mythic+ for example - its a great way to reuse and stretch content to keep people subbed longer, especially those won't don't raid or pvp. But its a great way to stretch the content that is otherwise forgotten after the first 2-3 weeks, and at the same time give those players something to do in the game they like. Now its not only 'raid or pvp or die', you have more stuff to do. They create a game mode that will keep their customers, who will keep paying to play it - and there's nothing wrong with that.

As for the amount of content: TBC did indeed have lots of raids (you also forgot the magnificent Zul'Aman and Kara, but ok they were not the main 25 man raids). But don't forget that there was only 1 difficulty. Compared to the current 4 levels. The amount of time to tune the mechanics and the numbers varies greatly. And since whether a raid is good or bad is mostly subjective (for me Trial is way worse than Nightmare), let's keep thee count to quantity of raids or bosses - its 6 vs 5, not far off. Wrath had 5 raids (Naxx, Ulduar, TOC, ICC and OS+RS+EoE as one), Cata had 5 raids (BoT, BWD, TotFW, FL, DS), MoP also had 5 (MSV, HoF, ToES, ToT, SoO), skip WoD, and BfA also had 4 (Uldir, BoD, EP, Nyalotha + that one boss raid). Setting personal preferences aside we've had a similar amount of raids every expansion, but the amount of difficulty layers increased at certain breakpoints.

[Niwes]

That's the way you see it - refarming from scratch. The way I see it - the item you will get from now on will be more valuable since you can upgrade them. You don't have to redo the achievement if you have it. And let's say if you don't have all done on +10 or aren't close to it, you are either playing dungeons too little (may be just 1 per week which in your opinion yields better results) or you are bad. The first one is the problem of interest/dedication and you shouldn't complain about not getting loot from content you don't enjoy and don't do. As for the 2nd one, there's always a lot of welfare gear which is decent enough but not as good as mythic level. And 'bad' shouldn't be rewarded as much as 'mediocre' or 'good'.

If you enjoy m+, you will keep running it, you WILL be getting some items that you will be able to upgrade. You could argue - let us upgrade the items we already have, we earned them. And you will have a valid point. Although an even bigger problem would arise from that though - everyone would feel pressured to run more and more dungeons to upgrade every single piece. When right now, with the current loot acquisition rate from m+, by the time you get an item you'd have the VPs (or be close to the amount) to upgrade it. Imho its not perfect, but more balanced than a forced VP grind.

As for your last statement - all loot eventually becomes pointless. But if that's what you want to focus at - what's the point of getting that said loot? If new content will have higher ilvl, and likely have some sort of catch-up gear. Here's the point - loot you earned is used by you to progress within the current content, and let you start the next piece of content when it releases at a higher step (not from +2s in 9.1, but from +7s, for example), next raid's normal gear will matter less for you, so you can start with hc or have an easier time clearing normal fast.


There's 3 types of end-game currently: raid, m+ and pvp. Each has their own gearing system and ilvl. If someone doesn't do any of that, its their choice. But if they are not doing the end-game content, what do they need the gear for? They are already handed a good enough ilvl for outdoor content, and enough to join low keys, LFR/normal for better gear (I don't include PVP, because I don't do it and am not too familiar with the current system). Gear has been the main character progression since the start - you do content - you get aproppriate rewards. So, yes, if they want better gear they should either raid, or pvp or do m+. All systems are extremely accessible and players have all the means to find something suitable for them.

When someone does M+, they progression also stops at 226, since that's the highest GV reward ilvl that you can achieve by running m+. That's equal to mythic raid ilvl. And guess what, when a raider kills a mythic boss - they have access to only 1-2 226 ilvl items that drop from that boss. To access the next boss'es loot table, you need to progress it which sometimes takes several resets. With increasing difficuty of bosses, an average mythic raider will get to kill 5-7 bosses during the patch'es lifespan. Compare that to a M+ runner, who get access through the vault to all of their suitable gear.

So you are right, that's what I'm saying - you don't have to raid to get 226 ilvl gear. So you're fine, if you just do m+ at +14-15 level and end up having similar ilvl to a mythic raider (I'm not including the loot from the last 2 bosses on mythic, since its only earned by a small fraction and shouldn't be taken into consideration, plus the extra 4 ilvl on a few items won't make or break your character). May be, depending on who you compare to, since the pool of mythic raiding guilds is pretty big and each has their own pace and limits, it can be slower.

And there's no bias in it, these are the facts.



I get your point. But we all know its business, they will do stuff to earn money. But I just don't quite agree with many posters on this forum that everything blizzard does is to milk the game, to get more MAUs, to stretch the content, when there are far more logical answers to that. Their focus isn't just on making money (which is high on priority list for them - if the game doesn't make money, they stop making it), they do need to make gameplay decisions. Mythic+ for example - its a great way to reuse and stretch content to keep people subbed longer, especially those won't don't raid or pvp. But its a great way to stretch the content that is otherwise forgotten after the first 2-3 weeks, and at the same time give those players something to do in the game they like. Now its not only 'raid or pvp or die', you have more stuff to do. They create a game mode that will keep their customers, who will keep paying to play it - and there's nothing wrong with that.

As for the amount of content: TBC did indeed have lots of raids (you also forgot the magnificent Zul'Aman and Kara, but ok they were not the main 25 man raids). But don't forget that there was only 1 difficulty. Compared to the current 4 levels. The amount of time to tune the mechanics and the numbers varies greatly. And since whether a raid is good or bad is mostly subjective (for me Trial is way worse than Nightmare), let's keep thee count to quantity of raids or bosses - its 6 vs 5, not far off. Wrath had 5 raids (Naxx, Ulduar, TOC, ICC and OS+RS+EoE as one), Cata had 5 raids (BoT, BWD, TotFW, FL, DS), MoP also had 5 (MSV, HoF, ToES, ToT, SoO), skip WoD, and BfA also had 4 (Uldir, BoD, EP, Nyalotha + that one boss raid). Setting personal preferences aside we've had a similar amount of raids every expansion, but the amount of difficulty layers increased at certain breakpoints.

i totally understand where you comin from and my personal opinion 50% agrees and 50% disagrees.

first: raids was not the best example in the world and as you said highly variates, depending on quality, quantity, personal preference etc. i also agree to many things you said about Blizzard reasons (foremost first part). i think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

but for my personal view on the game, i see too much recycling, cheap stuff, and „milk the cow“ things, compared with past work, to fully agree. i see a „special direction“ (in many, even small, things) and i know that direction very well. I work since 20 years in a somewhat same business/size and from a companies point of view Ion does a beast of a good job. why? because he have to design (as i said my opinion) the game that way to support cash grab, keep ppl subbed, cost effective and eye catching, marketing, polished content while providing big feature list and new stuff to attract many ppl. in short: he have to sell shit as gold. at the same time he is in response to keep wow at that high quality level that their customers still love it and keep playing and subbed. i know exactly how giant of a split this is. in that terms he do a wonderful job and creates a wonderful combination of both sides. hint: the complex part is not, how to sell shit as gold. the complex part is how you doing this without ppl slowly fading away.

that said, i agree that under this aspect many things in wow are just there cause of the health of the game. just there to make the game better. but at the same time there are also a lot of things that not get my sympathies for Blizz. as a multibillion dollar company you can not just make a very good game and the ppl and success come by itself. big investment in high quality for big profit by big fanbase ... these times are long over. you simply can earn way more money with smart cash grab systems, cost effective development and simply everything that can be used to milk the cow the most effective way.

an example: they design the game, to support use of Tokens heavily. to me that is obvious, because i had done the same, but as i said, just my opinion. this MUST not be the real truth. but just lets assume it for a second. they design the game that way, that i.e. boosting gets increased value. they do this, because they earn 7 additional bugs by doing nothing, for every Token ever passed the AH. keep watching /2 the next few weeks. you will see what i mean. boost spam will increase heavily. but its not that valor concept alone. they did supporting and usefulness of boosting many many times before, even when ppl not realize it.

another example: allied races. if you know how this stuff works and know where to look at and combine (i.e. use Blizz web api and combination of Census and wowprogress) you quickly find out HOW many ppl used a paid char customization for an allied race. when you calculate how much money they make with that stuff, you will be shocked. also you can look at the boost. simply look at the count of spam, the token price on wow token price website (cant remember exact url, google will tell you) when 9.0.5 goes life, and ask a finance guy, he will exactly tell you, if more or less Tokens are sold. and even how much. when you multiply this with 7 bugs for free you quickly get 1-10 mio out of it. i could fill a whole day giving examples but typing this as text is hard.

what i wanna say: if someone tells you, Blizz is making the same amount of profit with paid services, special actions, Shop, good marketing and Tokens, as the amount of profit from subs, would you REALLY think their solely focus is on keeping ppl subbed ? its a mesh calculation of both, maximized to the highest point where the subs meet the cash grab stuff (mathematically, they have a great finances/design team and know EXACTLY how to get most of both strategies out).

or let me try this: what if someone tells you „everyday a new 16 year old kid is born, that is able being rotated for 2-4 months through wow, paying here and there some extra money for tokens etc. while the loayal long term sub paying customer base decrease and decrease, because they get older.“ what is your reaction as managment then ? .... i know exactly how this is calculated. but sadly my english isnt that great, to quickly explain and show what i mean.

long story short:

do Blizz design the game, to just make it better? yes.
do Blizz design the game, to support making as much as possible profit? yes.
do Blizz wanna make profit, as any other company ? ofc.
do i like the SIZE of their greed and the way HOW they make profit ? no.

you CAN ofc call this all tinfoil hat shit. but i am way too long in that business to not clearly know and see what they are doing. i understand the why and how, because i once did the same things. but do i have to like this or support it by my wallet ? no. and i am not alone with this opinion. which doesnt mean it is the SOLELY true opinion. it is just my opinion.

all that said, in the end of the day, most ppl wether get what i talk about here, nor is it interessting to them, or how compnaies like Blizz in reality work. and this is totally fine, because in the end of the day, the descission is always the same:

if you like it, pay for it. if not, dont pay.

simple as that.

[Doffen]

if you like it, pay for it. if not, dont pay.

simple as that.

Words to live by.

[Yriel]

There's 3 types of end-game currently: raid, m+ and pvp. Each has their own gearing system and ilvl. If someone doesn't do any of that, its their choice. But if they are not doing the end-game content, what do they need the gear for? They are already handed a good enough ilvl for outdoor content, and enough to join low keys, LFR/normal for better gear (I don't include PVP, because I don't do it and am not too familiar with the current system). Gear has been the main character progression since the start - you do content - you get aproppriate rewards. So, yes, if they want better gear they should either raid, or pvp or do m+. All systems are extremely accessible and players have all the means to find something suitable for them.

Did Blizzard actually ever say that they consider M+ equal to raiding in terms of endgame? Because it sure seems like they see raiding as the actual endgame and M+ und PVP as stuff you can do on the sides.

[Echocho]

because they are different games? wows main competition has player power for sale in their store, want that too?

Uhm, it already has? The level skip in FFXIV is the same as the character boost in WoW.

[Necromantic]

Were casuals able to comfortably get higher than current raid normal item level without stepping into any form of raid/ranked PvP in Wrath? Because they are right now. I might be misremembering, but I don't think they could. Maybe the odd tier piece/armour piece from the vendor, but you were never pushing an overall average of raid iLvl loot by just doing random heroics.

Even if they can/could, it was VERY slow. And all that did was give them higher ilvl. It did not give them access to achievements, mounts or toys obtained from raids. It just simply raised their ilvl to give them a tangible form of progression without hindering actual raiders in any way.

So what is actually gated? I am not asking this to be cheeky. Aside from starting SL from absolute scratch - there's not really tangible gates anmore. ?

I was referring to my shithead co-members of the RIO community who get a few pieces of gear, believe they're "elite" and deny people clearly ready for certain content entry, only to seek people who grossly over-gear the content, reinforcing all the stigma we have. That's all. I didn't mean for it to sound like it was game-gated.

[Toybox]

Even if they can/could, it was VERY slow. And all that did was give them higher ilvl. It did not give them access to achievements, mounts or toys obtained from raids. It just simply raised their ilvl to give them a tangible form of progression without hindering actual raiders in any way.

So it's the same as what they have now (if not worse), no? You can get 197 from covenants, 207 from world bosses, 200 from unranked PvP & up to 235 from Torghast. You can have an average iLvl higher than that of normal Castle Nathria without ever once joining a premade group - I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case up until recently. You certainly weren't getting an average iLvl of ICC normal without entering a raid... This isn't including BoEs either.

If anything, casuals are getting more gear than ever (which is something I have no problem with by the way).

[Necromantic]

So it's the same as what they have now (if not worse), no? You can get 197 from covenants, 207 from world bosses, 200 from unranked PvP & up to 235 from Torghast. You can have an average iLvl higher than that of normal Castle Nathria without ever once joining a premade group - I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case up until recently. You certainly weren't getting an average iLvl of ICC normal without entering a raid... This isn't including BoEs either.

If anything, casuals are getting more gear than ever (which is something I have no problem with by the way).

That's up to the devs or eyes of the player. They only told us they were re-introducing it to us. They didn't promise it would be better.

[Zig Zug]

All those whiny shit threads make me wanna carry your low ass even less.
Get fucking halfway decent in a fucking easy game and stop whining or play mobile games and cash in your filthy casual experience.

You can do the same with boosts.

Fuck the crap players.

One man in my guild who had a massive stroke and is paralyzed in some parts of his body, even in his mouse hand, just managed to clear all M+ in 15s.
YOU ARE WORSE THAN A PARALYZED GUY. But this guys t least worked to become decent and you are just whining shitholes!!

You strike me as the kind of player that would leave a 2 Chest group right before the last boss to prove a point.

Also, congrats and condolences to your guildmate.

[Surfacin9]

i totally understand where you comin from and my personal opinion 50% agrees and 50% disagrees.

-snip-

if you like it, pay for it. if not, dont pay.

simple as that.

That's absolutely true and the last 2 phrases summarize our opinions quite well. They need to milk it, i.e. they need to earn the money. When the sub money dropped they came up with ways to get that money and may be more. Were all of these decisions based on profit alone? No. They could have started with the questions - how to we earn more, keep players subbed for longer. But most of these systems are not forced or mandatory. And if they are they were either asked by the playerbase in some way, or are good for the game. But are they to blame?

People used to buy gold from other sources. BLizz decided - why can't we control the market and redirect that money flow to us? Now people can choose to buy tokens with their money and sell them for gold. If it is an obvious cash grab, why people use it? They benefit from it themselves. Some get more gold to buy boosts or shiny epics or mounts. Others, on the contrary, get to not spend their money to pay for sub and other services. Its a win-win-win. Race change was always a thing, they could make it free, but why should they if people are ready to pay for it? When there's demand for something and readiness to spend money on it - it'd be stupid not to do it.

As for the MAU grind stuff in forms of artifact power, azerite power, anima - players asked for a max-level character progression that isn't just the gear. So we got that. Could it have been done differently, I'm sure there were ways. But if it benefits them and players get what they asked, its a sort of a win-win.

I don't say they make a great game, it has its ups and downs. But its engagins and addictive, and they are able to retain the customers. They get money and they give us what we want or make it look like we wanted it. But I can't say that some improvements or systems are not there for gameplay reasons, like I argued in some other post a while back about stretching the covenant campaign over several weeks.

Did Blizzard actually ever say that they consider M+ equal to raiding in terms of endgame? Because it sure seems like they see raiding as the actual endgame and M+ und PVP as stuff you can do on the sides.

If you need an official statement to validate that, you are just grasping for straws. As for the evidence:
1) leaderboards;
2) MDI (esports);
3) Great Vault row among raid and pvp rows;
4) relatively equal gear level with the rest of end-game.

It may be easier to an extend than raiding (both to organise and progress, and I'm talking about the highest earnable achivement from m+ - KSM, and not the high-end 20+ runs, which require almost as much skill/effort to complete as most mythic bosses, dunno haven't tried), or require less skill and knowledge than getting Gladiator, but it is there among them.

[Nalam the Venom]

m+ is challenging ''heroics'', the old valor system was simply flawed,no matter how challenging you make those heroics eventualy they become to easy,and like wrath you give insane gear or huge upgrades to people wile they do nothing bascialy

People who get boosted in to 220 raid gear, 233 PvP gear or 226 M+ vault gear also Get huge upgrades while doing nothing.

Why not just make the "Get gear easy" thing main stream and for every one? and not just for those that want to throw money on WoW tokens.

[deenman]

People who get boosted in to 220 raid gear, 233 PvP gear or 226 M+ vault gear also Get huge upgrades while doing nothing.

Why not just make the "Get gear easy" thing main stream and for every one? and not just for those that want to throw money on WoW tokens.

break everyones legs because some people happen to get their legs broken...brilliant logic

[Hibiki]

I hate timing concept of any M+ so I don't play it at all. I want valor option for all items in game.

[Nalam the Venom]

break everyones legs because some people happen to get their legs broken...brilliant logic

I dono how you could see this as a bad thing.

More items for every one would be a good thing.

[Viking]

because valor vendor gear was bad for most players and it gave lowest hanging fruit players gear for nothing.

just get good

The majority of the playerbase are these "low hanging fruit players".

Them getting gear affects you in no discernable way other than impacting your pathetic smolPP elitism.

[deenman]

I dono how you could see this as a bad thing.

More items for every one would be a good thing.

rewards that fit the content and effort yes,but coming with boosting as an argument as to why everyone should get easy acces to high ilvls is just bad

just because people steal money irl doesnt mean im gonna stop working and demand the goverment to pay me as much as others stole or something

(my analogy is ofc a bit exagerated boosting isnt stealing but i get why some people dislike how it exists)

- - - Updated - - -

The majority of the playerbase are these "low hanging fruit players".

Them getting gear affects you in no discernable way other than impacting your pathetic smolPP elitism.

thinking people should get rewarded based on effort or difficuly isnt elitism

[Sanguinerd]

Because the current head honchos are obsessed wtih maths, timers and competitiveness and want players to "get good" instead of "have fun".