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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Eagerly looking for them courageous Biden moves. KEKW.

    US deals with so much shit right now, that starting an actual Trade War with China is not exactly a priority for them. At very most it will be yet another Trump's Trade War, which actually did bite, but nothing China could not plug with $$.

    In the end at most it will be another round of tit for tat that won't change anything, because at this point - you can't do shit to world's 2nd largest economy who controls much of the world's supply lines.
    3rd largest economy. The EU and the US happen to be the first two. Not saying a trade war is feasible, but boy are you bad at getting your facts straight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Clearly China was a champion of human rights until suddenly this was uncovered. How shocking, China doing that? Our China?

    Not like Tiananmen, Hong Kong and South Sea was happening for years, totally nothing to see there.
    Ok, I'll call the world and let them know that you think they should stop doing anything, because so far they haven't done anything. Gaidax has decided that once you realise enough is enough it's too late if you haven't done this for basically the entirety of human history.

    Still waiting on your alternative. Guess you got nothing?
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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Uhm... I wasn’t predicting, I was describing:

    Biden Makes First Push to Potentially Boost US Chip Manufacturing
    https://www.pcmag.com/news/biden-mak...-manufacturing

    KEKW?
    Looking forward to how it will actually play out.

    Everyone is "looking into it", just like everyone is "deeply concerned".

    What will become of that? That's whole another talk. It's like out local joke about election promises - "well they did promise, but they did not promise to keep promises".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    3rd largest economy. The EU and the US happen to be the first two. Not saying a trade war is feasible, but boy are you bad at getting your facts straight.
    EU is a colossus on clay legs that will get outpaced by both China and India. You don't need to be Eurosceptic to see how impotent it is - just see how it deals with COVID-19 sitaution.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-03-23 at 01:38 PM.

  3. #143
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Looking forward to how it will actually play out.
    Solar cells is an example I used, to substantiate its effect. Strange stance... is strange... /shrug
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Solar cells is an example I used, to substantiate its effect. Strange stance... is strange... /shrug
    Here's the thing, you're like the others with "lessons learned", but what lesson was learned there? That cheap tech that does the job > expensive tech that does the job better? Genius.

    And what are the supposed actions to help there? It's like that another battle over 5G infrastructure that is being lost, where China is ready and willing to offer it at prices that put competition out of feasibility.

    China are champions at technology for masses that makes sense, whatever US and EU can offer - China will either license and produce, copy or steal and put on a market at fraction of the cost.

    And the thing is - they can afford it. Just like they can afford literally taking over Africa while US/EU just doze off. Africa is going to be so important in coming years and yet it's as if it's completely abandoned by all but China, who are only too happy to flood it with their stuff, projects and contracts century forward.

    ---

    The real way to counter it, meanwhile - is simply not something US/EU is ready to do because self-costs will be WAY too high. While they were dealing with USSR boogeyman, China pulled a fast one on them with capitalism and industry and US/EU never quite did anything about it, until when it is too late.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-03-23 at 01:52 PM.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The real way to counter it, meanwhile - is simply not something US/EU is ready to do because self-costs will be WAY too high. While they were dealing with USSR boogeyman, China pulled a fast one on them with capitalism and industry and US/EU never quite did anything about it, until when it is too late.
    Yes, and that is? I mean, instead of whining...
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yes, and that is? I mean, instead of whining...
    So the bottom line, as I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That ship has sailed back in 80s.

    It's just a bit sad they pretend to care with so called "sanctions". But I guess they can't say to public "whelp, we can't do shit about it, so whatever". Typical political bullshit game of appearances.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    So the bottom line, as I said.




    It's just a bit sad they pretend to care with so called "sanctions". But I guess they can't say to public "whelp, we can't do shit about it, so whatever". Typical political bullshit game of appearances.
    Ok, so you have no solution... or alternative action. You're just here to whine about how everything is shit.
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  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Ok, so you have no solution... or alternative action. You're just here to whine about how everything is shit.
    I mean, you asked the question in OP. If you're not interested in opinions on the matter - you can write a blog instead.

    But I bet you will have them armchair geopolitics experts come up with a totally feasible "just do this 4head!" or "Biden will do things that will totally matter!", which is equally hilarious.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I mean, you asked the question in OP. If you're not interested in opinions on the matter - you can write a blog instead.

    But I bet you will have them armchair geopolitics experts come up with a totally feasible "just do this 4head!" or "Biden will do things that will totally matter!", which is equally hilarious.
    And still you are not even attempting to present your action... holy shit, I've asked you four times and you have not ONCE actually said anything and instead rant on about something completely different...
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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And still you are not even attempting to present your action... holy shit, I've asked you four times and you have not ONCE actually said anything and instead rant on about something completely different...
    The action actually was done during Trump's administration - one real action that could actually set China back hard, but even he had no balls to come through. The action was to directly sanction/blacklist China's tech corporations. The problem with that was that China has capability to retaliate in a painful manner, so you can't sustain this action.

    US/EU could block licensing of technology to Chinese corporations, get into patent wars. Ravage and starve much of the China's technology sector, which is their driving force. It would hit them where it hurts.

    Reality however - that such nuclear action would lead to retaliations that will be extremely painful at home, that's why nobody will go for it and even Trump for all his eccentrics stopped quite a lot short of going full out. This is what is needed if you truly want to counter China, but no administration will go for it, because it will be a suicide.


    Sanctioning some bumpkinville officials and minor companies nobody heard about - that's all the action they can do now, while shaking in their booties.

    So yeah, nothing can be done. We want our cheap Chinese stuff, woohoo!
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-03-23 at 02:19 PM.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The action actually was done during Trump's administration - one real action that could actually set China back hard, but even he had no balls to come through. The action was to directly sanction/blacklist China's tech corporations. The problem with that was that China has capability to retaliate in a painful manner, so you can't sustain this action.

    US/EU could block licensing of technology to Chinese corporations, get into patent wars. Ravage and starve much of the China's technology sector, which is their driving force. It would hit them where it hurts.

    Reality however - that such nuclear action would lead to retaliations that will be extremely painful at home, that's why nobody will go for it. This is what is needed if you truly want to counter China, but no administration will go for it, because it will be a suicide.


    Sanctioning some bumkinville officials and minor companies nobody heard about - that's all the action they can do now, while shaking in their booties.

    So yeah, nothing can be done. We want our cheap Chinese stuff, woohoo!
    It's like pulling teeth...

    So because you're angry, we should go immediately for the nuke option? You don't think ramping up the pressure makes sense? What about Turkey? Myanmar? I mean thos eare tiny in comparison, we could starve them out almost immediately. Would you do it there as well?

    And who do you think actually would pay for such a move? The corps? They'll just close factories and send milions of people to the street. Is that your plan? What is that going ot change other than giving China the propaganda tool of "See, we told you the West hated you and we're the only ones that can protect you" argument?
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  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    It's like pulling teeth...

    So because you're angry, we should go immediately for the nuke option? You don't think ramping up the pressure makes sense? What about Turkey? Myanmar? I mean thos eare tiny in comparison, we could starve them out almost immediately. Would you do it there as well?

    And who do you think actually would pay for such a move? The corps? They'll just close factories and send milions of people to the street. Is that your plan? What is that going ot change other than giving China the propaganda tool of "See, we told you the West hated you and we're the only ones that can protect you" argument?
    That kind of thinking created the situation in the first place. Like this historical bipartisan kicking the can on North Korea to the point its bullshit became a reality you have to live with.

    Weak policymakers that prefer to let the snowball ride it out, so it will be next administration's problem to deal with.


    You asked how to deal with China? You can't, not anymore. It's too big and too powerful, to deal with it you need to be ready for pain now. Elected leaders should have thought about it 2 decades ago, while they were busy setting Middle East on fire.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That kind of thinking created the situation in the first place. Like this historical bipartisan kicking the can on North Korea to the point its bullshit became a reality you have to live with.

    Weak policymakers that prefer to let the snowball ride it out, so it will be next administration's problem to deal with.


    You asked how to deal with China? You can't, not anymore. It's too big and too powerful, to deal with it you need to be ready for pain now. Elected leaders should have thought about it 2 decades ago, while they were busy setting Middle East on fire.
    Oh ok, sorry, I misunderstood. See, the title of this thread is on how to deal with them, not on how to not deal with them. You should make a thread about that, sounds like you have something you would like to discuss.
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  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Oh ok, sorry, I misunderstood. See, the title of this thread is on how to deal with them, not on how to not deal with them. You should make a thread about that, sounds like you have something you would like to discuss.
    No need for a thread about how to not deal with them: you got US/EU cover that one pretty well just now.

    How to deal with them? Do what Trump did, but for real, not stop midway. Hit the tech sector with direct sanctions on biggest tech corporations and technology blockade hard until they comply. That's one real effective option US/EU still has... for a time being.

    But I'm sure in a decade or two, China won't need US there either too.

  15. #155
    Wait you mean we actually care about minorities being exploited and abused? When did this happen....?

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    That is because climate change is a global problem, not a spat between the US and China. Countries that have plenty of human rights violations themselves putting sanctions on other countries is a joke.
    genocide is a global problem too buddy.

  17. #157
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilhen7 View Post
    Wait you mean we actually care about minorities being exploited and abused? When did this happen....?
    The US always cares when they can exploit it to benefit them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    The US always cares when they can exploit it to benefit them.
    Sure. It helps.

    But you really need to stop shilling for the CCP.

  19. #159
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Sure. It helps.

    But you really need to stop shilling for the CCP.
    Opposing sanctions by the US is shilling for the US now? For somebody using an anarcho-communist avatar you sure love to defend the US.
    I don't need to like a country to oppose US imperialism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  20. #160
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Opposing sanctions by the US is shilling for the US now?
    They said shilling for CCP... not US... blind bias for the win!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    I don't need to like a country to oppose US imperialism.
    Yes, you are defending China’s imperialism of holding countries under its rule, against American imperialism of sanctions on business owners. Good one... those business owners don’t even pay you...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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