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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Opposing sanctions by the US is shilling for the US now? For somebody using an anarcho-communist avatar you sure love to defend the US.
    I don't need to like a country to oppose US imperialism.
    You can oppose US Imperialism and condemn genocide at the same time. I know, difficult concept, but the world isn't actually black and white. It's mostly grey.
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  2. #162
    Gaidax is right in the sense that action should be harsh and decisive. But we all are hypocrates and that is political suicide cause the average Joe really would like to keep buying cheap shit, so...
    As for "Made in China" - it won't last forever, I hope everyone here understands that, right? It is getting more and more expensive, as living standarts are rising driving the manufacturing prices up. Question is, by the time it get's replaced with made in India/Thailand/some African country/etc., how powerful will China have become?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Yeah, that one is a bit of a given.
    Exactly. And the ongoing carrier force building is much more likely targetted against Taiwan, not States. Floating airfields closer to land helps with invasions after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's about sums up all one could ever expect EU and the likes to have balls for- sanctions against a couple of fattened middle management pawns.

    Phew, thanks god they went from "deeply concerned" to this very effective action that means business. /s
    Maybe not the best one, but there is an example - Russia's power games culminating with events of 2014 have basically led to NATO increasing military budgets and starting massive rearmament programs, which I doubt is something Moscow wanted to happen, instead of betting that Europe would always just do nothing. Something similar may happen with China, some event (invasion of Taiwan...) triggering much harsher response. EU is far away but there are players in the region not happy with China. I can totally envision India-USA led coalition. Vietnam, Phillipines (Duterte won't rule forever), possibly others as well. Then add the SK and Japan. There are possibilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    EU is a colossus on clay legs that will get outpaced by both China and India. You don't need to be Eurosceptic to see how impotent it is - just see how it deals with COVID-19 sitaution.
    Eh... debatable. Especially about India. I have a feeling I will be dead by the time they will catch up, way too many internal issues and general backwardness. As for Europe - IIRC the support within EU for it is still all time high, unless I am mistaken, especially as generations are being replaced.
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Opposing sanctions by the US is shilling for the US now? For somebody using an anarcho-communist avatar you sure love to defend the US.
    I don't need to like a country to oppose US imperialism.
    Dude. The CCP is literally just an authoritarian oligarchical corpotocracy with ethno nationalist and increasingly imperialist leanings.

    It's like a fascist wet dream come true. Them opposing the US in some areas isn't a redeeming quality. Especially when considering the areas where the oppose the US.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Gaidax is right in the sense that action should be harsh and decisive. But we all are hypocrates and that is political suicide cause the average Joe really would like to keep buying cheap shit, so...
    As for "Made in China" - it won't last forever, I hope everyone here understands that, right? It is getting more and more expensive, as living standarts are rising driving the manufacturing prices up. Question is, by the time it get's replaced with made in India/Thailand/some African country/etc., how powerful will China have become?
    Ditto.

    Besides China is pretty much buying out Africa as is, while West, as per custom, is sleeping on watch. /shrug

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    EU is a colossus on clay legs that will get outpaced by both China and India. You don't need to be Eurosceptic to see how impotent it is - just see how it deals with COVID-19 sitaution.
    Last time I looked it was dealing with covid a lot better than the US did.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No need for a thread about how to not deal with them: you got US/EU cover that one pretty well just now.

    How to deal with them? Do what Trump did, but for real, not stop midway. Hit the tech sector with direct sanctions on biggest tech corporations and technology blockade hard until they comply. That's one real effective option US/EU still has... for a time being.

    But I'm sure in a decade or two, China won't need US there either too.
    Four years ago, I would have agreed with that statement. However, the last 4 years have shown that there is limit to how much technological progress can be obtained from stealing and copying IPs.

    For example, made in China parts accounted for over 30% of iPhone 5 and 6 components. In 2020, according to Nikkei report, made in China parts accounted for less than 5% of iPhone 12 components. Top 5 countries where Apple sourced iPhone 12 components are US, Japan, EU, Korea and Taiwan.



    Like almost every other fields of science, research in electronic and electrical engineering starts at University level. China still has a long way to go here. In the top ten electronics and electrical engineering schools by research, the US has 4 in the top ten. Including #1 (MIT), #2 (Stanford) and #3 (Berkeley). China has none. The US has over 15 in the top 50. China has 3.

    China is still stuck with 14-nanometer fabs. In fact, their existing 14- and 28-nanometer fabs use equipment manufactured by 3 US companies (Applied Materials Inc., KLA-Tencor Corp. and Lam Research Corp.) and 1 Dutch company (ASMC). Without tools from those companies, they don’t even have the ability to build any new 14- and 28-nanometer fabs.

    Also, I don’t think it is likely that China will catch up in 10 years. The semiconductor industry is fast approaching the end of the silicon era of ever increasing transistor counts. By 2025, we should be seeing new non-silicon based semiconductor manufacturing process. China does not have any foothold in this research field. It is totally dominated by the US and Korea.

    Right now China is bleeding manufacturing jobs. Companies are shifting their manufacturing away from China to places like India, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. Foxconn, partially under pressure from Apple, has moved 30% of its manufacturing capacity out of China. They are not the only one. Many other Taiwanese companies are moving out of China. Google “companies moving out of China.”

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post

    Like almost every other fields of science, research in electronic and electrical engineering starts at University level. China still has a long way to go here. In the top ten electronics and electrical engineering schools by research, the US has 4 in the top ten. Including #1 (MIT), #2 (Stanford) and #3 (Berkeley). China has none. The US has over 15 in the top 50. China has 3.
    Yank is waving his dick around.

    Here are some contrary facts. China does not keep electing visibly retarded men to the highest office in its land. It does not keep wasting trillions on fighting wars with midget countries and somehow getting its ass kicked. The few things the US is actually good at, it can and does steal.

    Btw a fucking pie chart? This is an MMO forum not a TED talk.

  8. #168
    Interesting article on the state of China's 2021 semiconductor industry.

    The Future of China’s Semiconductor Industry

    China's 2021 global semiconductor market share by Tsinghua University. Keep in mind that this is the most heavily government subsidized sector for the last 10 years. Currently in China, there are more than 50,000 so called semiconductor manufacturing companies. Around 99% have no background in semiconductor and are just trying to get their share of the government money. I'll repeat, the reason why Chinese companies only use 7% of the domestically produced chips is because the remaining 93% is unusable in mid to high end manufacturing.



    Personally, I think this is the perfect time to not only cut off high end chip supply to Chinese companies, but also heavily restrict exports of SME and design tools to Chinese semiconductor firms which are heavily subsidized by the Chinese government.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2021-03-23 at 08:20 PM.

  9. #169
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Not sure. I'd say... do what China is doing:
    1) extend our influence in Africa with projects and support
    2) more control over corporations to stop them from abusing cheap/slave labour, evade taxes and to stop them from supporting China.

    But honestly I don't know if this would work and perhaps it's too late.
    Leave China alone? Is that an option? I mean sure you shouldn't let corporations operate as effectively their own quasi-countries unto themselves, but the US is basically an oligarchy of corporate overlords and private fiefdoms. So, not much you can do there.

    But the other option is, and this might seem impossible for some NeoCon types, not start a fight with China for no real reason?
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  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    But the other option is, and this might seem impossible for some NeoCon types, not start a fight with China for no real reason?
    Neocons are the ones downplaying what China is doing in respects to human rights, to continue business as usual. They are instead keen on attacking Big Tech, for the same reason its a problem for China... Neocons can’t compete with their “resource extraction”...
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  11. #171
    Sounds like a good time to invest in American-made semiconductors.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Sounds like a good time to invest in American-made semiconductors.
    Yep, that’s really the point...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Sounds like a good time to invest in American-made semiconductors.
    (Again the TSMC issue) This process was started some time ago (read, new fabs in USA), but it will not be fast, will take long time and be expensive as hell. Nonetheless, there is movement in this direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Besides China is pretty much buying out Africa as is, while West, as per custom, is sleeping on watch. /shrug
    Do note that Israel is more or less but West as well. At least partially this applies to you too.
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  14. #174
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Ditto.

    Besides China is pretty much buying out Africa as is, while West, as per custom, is sleeping on watch. /shrug
    Yeah, last 100 times europe got involved in Africa it went over so well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You can oppose US Imperialism and condemn genocide at the same time. I know, difficult concept, but the world isn't actually black and white. It's mostly grey.
    Condemning genocide is not the same thing as putting sanctions on a country. And since no way in hell is my country going to put sanctions on allied countries that commit obvious crimes against humanity, I really have no reason to even consider these sanctions having any form of good faith behind them.
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2021-03-25 at 01:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Condemning genocide is not the same thing as putting sanctions on a country.
    And yet, you can do both at the same time. It's amazing how many things a country can do at the same time. Or not. Or only one or the other. Or none at all. Sorry, what exactly are you trying to tell me here? Or is this just another dude who wants to talk about semantics?
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  16. #176
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And yet, you can do both at the same time. It's amazing how many things a country can do at the same time. Or not. Or only one or the other. Or none at all. Sorry, what exactly are you trying to tell me here? Or is this just another dude who wants to talk about semantics?
    Are you not understanding i'm arguing the sanctions and how that is different from defending a genocide. Or is that too hard for you?
    Or does opposing sanctions mean you have to fully support a country now?


    I mean I also don't support sanctions on the US, does that mean I support Guantanamo bay?
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Not sure. I'd say... do what China is doing:

    2) more control over corporations to stop them from abusing cheap/slave labour, evade taxes and to stop them from supporting China.
    Just seen this gem, almost spilled my coffee.

    During my business trips to China, I had pleasure of inspecting a pretty big electronics factory owned by corporation conglomerate worth for tens of billions dollars. I seen what can't be any older than 18 years old (probably 16-17) working 12 hour shifts 6 hours a day at conveyors soldering electronics, packaging and testing like robots.

    The manager, Mr Wang, told us that the factory never stops, factory that stops is lost money and if needed workers work 7 days a week too if it means stopping production otherwise.

    The sla... "workers" also live there in dormitories for which they pay, they are not allowed to get married and the factory is located 40 minutes drive from nearest town in the middle of nowhere. If they get married they must move out which means they are out of job, effectively.

    And said workers have no choice, because it's either that or back to their villages with no prospects whatsoever at all, which is even worse. My Chinese colleague told me that people are conscripting to army willingly and serve years, because when they get discharged they get automatically an official job (which can be latrines cleaning at stadium, per their words) - that's a good prospect there.

    But yeah, man, China sure tackles that slave labor problem there. It's this, practically for all intents and purposes, slave labor is what put them where they are and that's only the tip of an iceberg with massive corruption culture in China.


    Here's another example - prostitution is banned by law and is a crime in China... that unless the "establishment" is owned by a party official. Of course it's not quite in the face thing, but as long as it masks itself as a "spa" and has a proper patron in the party who gets his cut, it's all peachy. Girls who don't want to work in the factory are welcome there, though competition from surrounding countries' "workers" is intense.

    But hey China sure tackles that slave labor issue.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-03-25 at 08:26 PM.

  18. #178
    I don't know if we can deal with them. They are really far ahead in terms of infrastructure.

    The thing holding us back is the current political scene in the U.S is so incestuous and rotten that politicians themselves overwhelmingly benefit personally from deadlock, blaming each other and otherwise dragging their feet, and the populace has just enough to where they don't rise as one and purge the lot of them.

    Despite the drawbacks and assaults on personal freedoms, the one trait that makes it worth it for China is it's autocracy and it's ability to say 'fuck you build that bridge' without having 5 years bitching and moaning about how to pay for potholes when we still are manufacturing shit ass jet planes worth billions that don't even work.
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  19. #179
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Gaidax is right in the sense that action should be harsh and decisive. But we all are hypocrates and that is political suicide cause the average Joe really would like to keep buying cheap shit, so...
    As for "Made in China" - it won't last forever, I hope everyone here understands that, right? It is getting more and more expensive, as living standarts are rising driving the manufacturing prices up. Question is, by the time it get's replaced with made in India/Thailand/some African country/etc., how powerful will China have become?



    Exactly. And the ongoing carrier force building is much more likely targetted against Taiwan, not States. Floating airfields closer to land helps with invasions after all.



    Maybe not the best one, but there is an example - Russia's power games culminating with events of 2014 have basically led to NATO increasing military budgets and starting massive rearmament programs, which I doubt is something Moscow wanted to happen, instead of betting that Europe would always just do nothing. Something similar may happen with China, some event (invasion of Taiwan...) triggering much harsher response. EU is far away but there are players in the region not happy with China. I can totally envision India-USA led coalition. Vietnam, Phillipines (Duterte won't rule forever), possibly others as well. Then add the SK and Japan. There are possibilities.



    Eh... debatable. Especially about India. I have a feeling I will be dead by the time they will catch up, way too many internal issues and general backwardness. As for Europe - IIRC the support within EU for it is still all time high, unless I am mistaken, especially as generations are being replaced.
    Aircraft carriers are not for attacking Taiwan, the entire island is well within land based fighters. Carriers are for power projection.
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  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Aircraft carriers are not for attacking Taiwan, the entire island is well within land based fighters. Carriers are for power projection.
    I do have to wonder about China's obsession with aircraft carriers. They don't need them for what they claim they want to do, but stranger is the fact they keep saying aircraft carriers are obsolete by their super-duper aircraft carrier killer missiles and yet they keep wanting to build lots of them.

    Do they not think others can build aircraft carrier killer missiles to take out their own aircraft carriers? Or is that a silent admission that their missiles just aren't anywhere as good as they claim?

    Speaking of missiles, Taiwan has just announced it has started mass production of a long ranged land based missile capable of hitting targets in mainland China, things like ports, airfields, radar sites etc. And they have three other models in development. This is the first time they have had a missile capable of striking back against the Chinese mainland.

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