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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    In parts this is already happening. Germany's auto industry (and other big tech) is already pretty pissed off at the IP shenanigans going on in China and are in the process of moving out of China or about to start that process.
    Yup the more aggressive china is getting the more is shifting away from them. At some point the loss of IP and counterfeiting it causes limits the utility of access to the market.

  2. #62
    The coolest thing is that all people who do not understand think that there are no video cards because the miners bought it, and not because there is a global separation of economies

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    What's weird is assuming just because a region of land has been in one country at some point in history means that country has a natural right to that land. That would throw Europe into a really bad spot considering some of our lands have changed ownership more than you changed your underwear.

    But your point is valid in that is how China thinks about it all. That's why the whole expansionism idea is really silly. China "just" wants to unite what they think is China. Does it include regions that do not strictly show up as "China" on current maps? Yes, and that's the problem for everyone around them. But that doesn't mean they are expansionistic. Unlike Japan going into Korea and China and just taking land, China, for instance, has zero interest in mainland Japan. Or North Korea, as the best example... they COULD just waltz in there and kick lil' Kims ass out. But they don't want to, because NK is not what they consider "China". Tibet, on the other hand, is. Same with HK and Taiwan.

    This is also why they reject anything in the SC that even hints at the interference with a nations sovereignity. Take Syria, Assad is technically the leader of that country. So if 50% of the population rises up and brings him to the brink of ruin and then asks "Yo, UN, wanna help out?" China would automatically knee-jerk their veto, because to them there was no transition of power, so Assad is the rightful ruler and if HE doesn't ask for help, Syria isn't asking for help. And any foreign troops in Syria are an invasion force. This is why Russia is tolerated, btw, because of course Assad asked THEM for help.

    I mean, it's a bit more complicated than that, but if you get right down to it, this is Americans not understanding even the basics of Chinese thinking.
    One point in history? You mean from like 200 bc until the British leased it???

    Tibet though has been considered China for quite a long time... also it was considered so by the west until quite recently which coincides with political tensions between China and the west. The whole point is that the issues are less bout whether they are part of china or not and more about whether the west fancies china or not.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's right...run away. Your sad beliefs have no hold here.
    Come back when you can acknowledge the unemployment for the past year.
    I agree.

    Truth and facts are a little devoid within echo chambers.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by PetalExpress View Post
    Exactly what Trump achieved.

    Raise import taxes so that it would be cheaper for manufacturers to move back to the USA.

    Creating thousands of USA jobs in the process.
    .
    It has been pointed out to you that none of that happened.

    The exact polar opposite happened. The trade deficit increased and offshoring accelerated.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsl...shoring-record

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...deficit-466116

    I already explained to you once how this happened.

    All that while destroying US jobs that were in turn exporting to China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PetalExpress View Post
    I agree.

    Truth and facts are a little devoid within echo chambers.
    Nothing you said is true or even remotely connected to anything called "fact".

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Felya, I really do not see where you're going with this. Are you telling us communism is bad? I mean, that sounds too obvious. Maybe spell it out for me, I find that analogy is not very clear on what you intend to say. I think.
    If a corporation treats you like shit, who do you appeal to? When a corporation ran by government treats you like shit, who do you appeal to?

    The point wasn’t a reflection on communism, but the fact that it’s a symbiotic relationship, where neither of the workers win. Neither one is the badie...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by PetalExpress View Post
    Exactly what Trump achieved.

    Raise import taxes so that it would be cheaper for manufacturers to move back to the USA.

    Creating thousands of USA jobs in the process.

    Biden went and reversed a policy that was doing exactly what you said.
    Tariff is not the answer. Even if we tariff China to death, there are still India, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. That’s what we have seen happened with Trump’s tariff. Nike moved their operation to Vietnam and Apple to India. Not back to the US.

    The US can’t, nor should it attempt to, compete with those countries over low-skilled labor manufacturing. Personally, I don’t care if Nike makes their shoes in Indonesia and Vietnam. Nobody in the US want to stitch Nike’s tops and glue shoes' soles in a Nike factory all day long.

    We should instead increase our high-end manufacturing. Like medicine and medical equipment.

    Definitely advanced semiconductor manufacturing. There are 3 new 5-nanometer fabs planned in the US now - AZ, TX and AL. Just in case China is crazy enough to launch a military attack on Taiwan.

    Lithium mining and processing. California Energy Commission (CEC) just granted 7.8 million to two pilot programs to extract lithium in Imperial Valley. If the process works, it is estimated that there are 6 million tons of extractable lithium in the area. That’s over 100 times of the global annual lithium production which could propel the US into the largest lithium producer and manufacturer in the world. Lithium Valley may be the new buzz word. Another project trying to extract lithium from clay in Arizona. Although, that’s more of a long shot.

    Increasing not only US capacity to mine rare earth elements, but also to extract and process them. End our dependent on China for these strategic electronic manufacturing ingredients. There are currently multiple parallel projects in CA, TX, PA, etc.

    That’s how we beat China economically.

    Interesting article about Lithium - California Wants Its Imperial Valley to Be ‘Lithium Valley’.

    And China blasts Biden administration over new restrictions on Huawei

    The comments from the Foreign Ministry follow a report from Bloomberg saying the U.S. notified some Huawei suppliers that starting this week more items will be prohibited for use in 5G technology.

    The ban targets exporting semiconductors, antennas and batteries that could be used in Huawei's 5G devices, according to Bloomberg.

    If the US want, they could totally cripple China's technological development for the next decade. The US control all the global high end semiconductor sources. There are no other alternatives.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2021-03-12 at 05:49 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by FakePizza View Post
    Like this is some kinda news,they knew what the hell China has been doing but since money talks and bullshit walks...yeah..nothing will change.China will keep doing what ever it wants and rest will keep kissing Chinas ass.My solution,just nuke the whole China and restart that part of the world
    genocide is not a solution.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    That's a good suggestion. Personally I think Africa is criminally underrated. The only disadvantage Africa really has is a hot climate, ie. you'd need a lot of cooling for those factories.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Hot take, but not entirely unjustified. Little difference, to actually make your case, you really don't want to gloss over the colossal human right violations and massive oppression going on in China, vs. Japan who very much try to do the right thing and adhere to human rights and have a properly functional democratic system installed, from grassroots level to the very top.

    After all, that's what we're discussing, not the actual "who's the biggest top dog in the economic pissing contest" question, although that is interesting enough in itself. But for another time, perhaps.
    that and the fact it's a completely unstable region ruled over by petty warlords/rebels. with governments unable to control vast swaths of their own countryside or actively at war with them.
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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    One point in history? You mean from like 200 bc until the British leased it???

    Tibet though has been considered China for quite a long time... also it was considered so by the west until quite recently which coincides with political tensions between China and the west. The whole point is that the issues are less bout whether they are part of china or not and more about whether the west fancies china or not.
    I'm not saying it's one or the other, I'm saying it's complicated and everyone involved has their own way of "how it should be". And the US is all too happy to forget that the Chinese interpretation probably can't just be ignored.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    If a corporation treats you like shit, who do you appeal to? When a corporation ran by government treats you like shit, who do you appeal to?

    The point wasn’t a reflection on communism, but the fact that it’s a symbiotic relationship, where neither of the workers win. Neither one is the badie...
    When a corp treats me like shit, I go to a court. You do not have that option with Governments (depending on how exactly they set up their country), as they typically represent the ultima ratio in these countries. Chinese exploitation of their population is hardly "symbiotic". It's like saying the lion and the gazelle are symbiotic, because the gazelle happens to feed the lion. What? :P

    Or are you saying globalism is symbiotic?
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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I don't think you understand why people have children. Rest assured, if China ever stops the one child policy, they'll have a massive boomer wave coming. Here's a secret for you, the poor and stupid breed like rabbits. It's only the rich and educated that don't procreate. Guess what the percentage of the poor and stupid in the Chinese population is. You know, the one that had the cultural revolution killing educated people. Their demographic decline is not happening in our lifetime. Europe has a bigger problem in that it's an actual decline not policed by the Government.
    Umm....maybe I missed something earlier in the thread, but China abolished the one-child policy back in 2015-2016. Did you not check that before posting?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-ch...licy#Abolition

    In October 2015, the Chinese news agency Xinhua[69] announced plans of the government to abolish the one-child policy, now allowing all families to have two children, citing from a communiqué issued by the CPC "to improve the balanced development of population" – an apparent reference to the country's female-to-male sex ratio – and to deal with an aging population according to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.[33][70][71][72][73][74][75][76] The new law took effect on 1 January 2016 after it was passed in the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress on 27 December 2015
    Also, after they abolished the policy, the Chinese birth rates ticked up slightly....for one year. Then they started failing again, even faster than before.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51145251



    So were did you get your information from before?

  11. #71
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    When a corp treats me like shit, I go to a court. You do not have that option with Governments (depending on how exactly they set up their country), as they typically represent the ultima ratio in these countries. Chinese exploitation of their population is hardly "symbiotic". It's like saying the lion and the gazelle are symbiotic, because the gazelle happens to feed the lion. What? :P
    The demand that leads to exploitation of workers, is what is symbiotic. What’s the point of abusing your workers if you get enough revenue to treat them better? What is the point of abusing workers, if they get paid enough to afford junk made by happy workers?

    Or are you saying globalism is symbiotic?
    Unless we make everyone equal, it simply has to be.
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluespiderman57 View Post
    Umm....maybe I missed something earlier in the thread, but China abolished the one-child policy back in 2015-2016. Did you not check that before posting?

    Also, after they abolished the policy, the Chinese birth rates ticked up slightly....for one year. Then they started failing again, even faster than before.

    So were did you get your information from before?
    It is the same problem throughout all the developed countries. Yes, China is now a developed countries. US also has the same problem.

    US birth rates just plummeted to their lowest since the baby boom era

    However, the US has one advantage over China. Or for that matter, every single developed countries in the world. We are immigrant magnet. Even under Trump's decidedly anti-immigrant policies, the drop in legal immigration to the US is minimal (7.3%). At least until the pandemic hit. Legal immigration to the US during the pandemic took a big hit.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluespiderman57 View Post
    So were did you get your information from before?
    Ah, I stand corrected. Well, that doesn't really change much, but it plays into my no need for expansion argument, so thank you for that!
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by PetalExpress View Post
    I agree.

    Truth and facts are a little devoid within echo chambers.
    Says the guy that has yet to present any? You really shouldn't be talking about anything tbh.


    Then looking at one of your latest posts, and you tried to say Hitler and Nazism was left wing. No fucking wondering you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. You and your bullshit revisionist history.
    Last edited by postman1782; 2021-03-13 at 12:29 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    that and the fact it's a completely unstable region ruled over by petty warlords/rebels. with governments unable to control vast swaths of their own countryside or actively at war with them.
    I think you have demonstrated why a lot of Western governments and people do not understand anything about Africa. It is a very large continent and currently there are nations in there on equivalent footing with the EU in terms of prosperity. China did not make this mistake and invested now Western nations are scrambling to catch up.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I think you have demonstrated why a lot of Western governments and people do not understand anything about Africa. It is a very large continent and currently there are nations in there on equivalent footing with the EU in terms of prosperity. China did not make this mistake and invested now Western nations are scrambling to catch up.
    Seeing how well the USA handled investing in Latin America maybe it was best it didn’t “invest” in Africa’s countries.

  17. #77
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Then looking at one of your latest posts, and you tried to say Hitler and Nazism was left wing. No fucking wondering you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. You and your bullshit revisionist history.
    Take solace in the fact that these people don’t deny the reasons they are called fascist, just try to both sides it...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Seeing how well the USA handled investing in Latin America maybe it was best it didn’t “invest” in Africa’s countries.
    This is not going unnoticed around the world.

    Chinese diplomats are no doubt making the point "Chinese investment and you prosper, US investment and the US prospers."

  19. #79
    Not sure. I'd say... do what China is doing, and extend our influence in Africa with projects and support.

    Also, more control over corporations to stop them from abusing cheap/slave labour, evade taxes and to stop them from supporting China.

    But honestly I don't know if this would work and perhaps it's too late.
    Last edited by Dezerte; 2021-03-26 at 07:38 AM.
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  20. #80
    What was the impact of the US blacklisting Huawei?

    The once #1 smart phone vendor by shipment (Apple was #1 by sale and #3 by shipment) in the world tumbled to #6. It shipped 33 million smartphones globally in the fourth quarter of 2020, a 41% year-on-year decline. It forced Huawei to sell off its budget Honor smartphone brand in November, and it is now looking at divesting its flagship Mate and P brand.

    (Note: Apple produced 77.6 million iPhones units in the fourth quarter of 2020, 69.8 million of which were iPhone 12 models. Apple is currently #1 in both shipment and sale. Ahead of Samsung at second place.)

    Two factors for the decline. Cutting Huawei off from Google’s Android operating system is not a big deal in China where Google services such a Gmail and search are blocked. But in international markets, it has been key to Huawei’s growth as consumers are used to these services.

    The other factor is that their 5G smart phones use 7- (only made in the US, Korea & Taiwan under US license) and 5-nanometer wavers (only made in Taiwan under US license). So now they are limited to only making 4G phones.

    The company has now diversified to less tech-intensive fields of providing technology to coal mining, pig farming and fish farming. It has now expanded its solar inverter (use 28-nanometer chips) and power module (use 90-nanometer chips) manufacturing and sale.

    This has shown the Chinese the limit of advancing their technology through IP theft. Just because you have access to the blue print, do not meant that you can build a house. Especially in tech where the usability cycle today is counted in 1 - 2 years. Taiwan just started commercial production of 3-nanometer wavers this year, and already they are planning to produce 2-nanometer wavers next year. Very short cycle. Meanwhile, China is still stuck making 14-nanometer wavers.

    What’s the difference between 14- and 3-nanometers chip? Huge. A 14-nanometer chip, which is used in dual-core mobile variant of the Intel Core i3/i5/i7, has a theoretical density of 17.185 million transistors per square millimetre. A 3-nanometer chip is over 100 trillion.

    The same thing that the US did to Huawei, it could do to every single Chinese companies that use 10-nanometer chips or better in its manufacturing process.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2021-03-15 at 07:26 PM.

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