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  1. #201
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Oo god hes back.
    I have never completely left

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    You don't get to bulldoze over an entire playable race and get to call it fair. The Forsaken deserve to keep Lordaeron the same way night elves get Darkshore and Ashenvale. This is not up to discussion.
    Oh, so now the Forsaken are the VICTIMS? They started a genocidal war, they gotta pay. I see no reason why they would have any place to live on Azeroth anymore.
    Look what you did to Hillsbrad Foothills, just plagued everything. The Forsaken are only about destruction. They might as well live under a rock. Since they drown everything in green goo anyway, I'm sure they won't notice the difference.

    No, the Forsaken do not deserve a new home. They deserve to rot in hell for all I care.
    Regards
    the Night Elves

  3. #203
    Pfft...the way things are written the forsaken would have been an unplayable race by now.
    Every race should have gone after them and killed everyone and everything related to them.

  4. #204
    To give my two cents but while the Forsaken will undoubtably want to reclaim Lordaeron, Turalyon is set on reclaiming former Alliance territory which will inevitably include Lordaeron since it was the bastion of the Alliance back in his day, and if he does indeed end up doing as such the Forsaken will be lucky if it's neutral territory

    Though that is assuming he can claim all the land before the Horde can, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a hotspot of Faction conflict, along with everywhere that borders Night Elf territory, and probably the Ghostlands

    Edit: and also Turalyon himself is a Lordaeronian native, along with a decent chunk of Stormwind civilians, so this would definitely be a "both sides have a point" situation
    Last edited by Psykho; 2021-03-16 at 02:48 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Because they are rightfully theirs. Their morality literally doesn't change who the land belongs to, that's what I've been saying.
    Yes, but still what you are saying is wrong. The land belonged to Terenas, then his heir Arthas (who technically is still alive at this point, and since you want to ignore morality, he is the rightful king of Lordaeron by blood) and if we disregard Arthas it goes to Calia. The land belongs to the royalty not some random mob of citizens that decide it is theirs now and least of all does it belong to a High Elf from another kingdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Because the undead weren't doing that at the time.
    Again. They murdered Garithos and his entire army in cold blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    (Spoiler: He tries to kick her out of Lordaeron, so obviously he WASN'T going to group up all buddy buddy with the Forsaken.)
    I notice you are really bad at remembering things that work against your point. The deal between Garithos and Sylvanas was that Gari would get Lordaeron, they weren't going to share the city or anything, so your gotcha kinda falls flat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Conveniently doesn't use ultra mega power to escape literal scenario in which she is dying, "OBVIOUSLY GAME MECHANICS" because it doesn't fit your view.

    You're really bad at this
    Okay, so why did Jaina not teleport to Dalaran with us immediatedly? A spell she used dozens of times before. If you don't allow game mechanics to account for this then what is the reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    This is a lot of headcanon. Got a canon source for it, or are you just pulling it out of your ass? (Spoiler: I know it's the latter.)
    "The spectral Banshees can fly "

    From the WC3 unit discription. http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea.../banshee.shtml

    Not really a lot of headcannon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Oh, would you look at that! In the short story in which she literally changed her viewpoint - She changed her viewpoint!

    You're right, that totally gives you the right to apply that to every moment prior to that, obviously, because characters don't have formative moments like this short story, they must have just always been that way.
    So what you ask for is evidence that she did not change her viewpoint, instead of accepting that she did not and hence why there is no evidence for that. I see. So to ask the less ridiculous question then, where is your evidence that she did in fact change her viewpoint before?


    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    1) Immediate rejection from Stormwind when the Forsaken attempted to reach out to them.
    2) Immediate repudiation for their existance in Lordaeron's ruins, as if the living had any claim to the ruins they abandoned.
    3) The Scarlet Crusade in general, which exists and is present IN TIRISFAL as of Vanilla WoW.
    First of all, these things happened AFTER their first massacre of humans, secondly, you must be friggin joking if you call this "atrocities" that do in any way justify their sick experiments.

    But ye, I think this will do, you are twisting lore as you like, making up timelines how it suits you. Basically you do what 99% of the Horde posters here always do in their attempts to justify and normalize the crazy shit that faction is up to. Think I will pass on further conversations with you.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Yes, but still what you are saying is wrong. The land belonged to Terenas, then his heir Arthas (who technically is still alive at this point, and since you want to ignore morality, he is the rightful king of Lordaeron by blood)
    This is incorrect. Arthas murdered Terenas in cold blood, thus turning himself into an enemy of the crown and no longer the rightful heir.

    and if we disregard Arthas it goes to Calia. The land belongs to the royalty not some random mob of citizens that decide it is theirs now and least of all does it belong to a High Elf from another kingdom.
    And as mentioned, she abandoned it to the undead. She didn't want the throne.

    The kingdom of Lordaeron died with King Terenas. This leaves the LANDS of Lordaeron unclaimed, as the kingdom no longer holds it. The undead took it over. Many of those undead then broke free of the Lich King. Garithos attempted to take it back, but was betrayed by Sylvanas, leaving Lordaeron still in the hands of the now-free-willed undead, who then named themselves the Forsaken and began following Sylvanas.

    Again. They murdered Garithos and his entire army in cold blood.
    No, Sylvanas did. She decided she would lead the Forsaken literally moments after Garithos was eaten by ghouls.

    I notice you are really bad at remembering things that work against your point. The deal between Garithos and Sylvanas was that Gari would get Lordaeron, they weren't going to share the city or anything, so your gotcha kinda falls flat.
    It doesn't, because the "gotcha" was just pointing out how your idea that they would work together, doesn't work, because Garithos had no interest in continuing to work with Sylvanas after taking Lordaeron. He tired to kick her out of the city. It wasn't meant to prove that he planned to betray her.

    Okay, so why did Jaina not teleport to Dalaran with us immediatedly? A spell she used dozens of times before. If you don't allow game mechanics to account for this then what is the reason?
    Not only is the ability to block magic available and known to be available, but at the seat of power of the Lich King, it's not hard to guess that he would be readily prepared for his ex-girlfriend's known abilities.

    "The spectral Banshees can fly "

    From the WC3 unit discription. http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea.../banshee.shtml

    Not really a lot of headcannon.
    Now point us to "When a Banshee infests a humanoid body, they continue to retain such power and can even apply it to their human body." (Notice how the Banshee is NORMALLY destroyed when using the Possession ability in WC3, removing all of it's Banshee abilities AND putting it on the ground...) and "Banshees are able to avoid all attacks whenever they please."

    Because that's still headcanon. A lot of it, in fact. Sylvanas still having Banshee abilities after possessing her own corpse is in fact the outlier already, nevermind WHAT powers she possesses. Prior to BfA, she wasn't shown to possess ANY Banshee abilities, being:
    a) Corporeal, due to having a body
    b) Incapable of flight, given she walks everywhere
    c) Incapable of possession, given she already possesses a body

    So what you ask for is evidence that she did not change her viewpoint, instead of accepting that she did not and hence why there is no evidence for that. I see. So to ask the less ridiculous question then, where is your evidence that she did in fact change her viewpoint before?
    You know, her changing her viewpoint is not evidence of her not changing her viewpoint. That's not hard to point out, man.

    In the short story you linked, she literally wanted to die, until she met with the Val'kyr. She had no interest in leading the Forsaken, and then she died, and then she had interest in leading the Forsaken.

    That's called "changing your viewpoint." You were TRYING to prove she hadn't, but linked the exact scenario which proves she had, and then asked "WHEN DID SHE DO SO?!" Like, you're really bad at this.

    First of all, these things happened AFTER their first massacre of humans,
    Done only by Sylvanas and you're applying to the entire Forsaken, but regardless.

    secondly, you must be friggin joking if you call this "atrocities" that do in any way justify their sick experiments.
    I never said it did. I have repeatedly said that their atrocities were, in fact, atrocities.

    I'm saying Forsaken have a naturally skewed perspective on what is "atrocious" due to their history with the humans.

    But ye, I think this will do, you are twisting lore as you like, making up timelines how it suits you. Basically you do what 99% of the Horde posters here always do in their attempts to justify and normalize the crazy shit that faction is up to. Think I will pass on further conversations with you.
    Says the person who literally pointed to Sylvanas changing her mind, and said "LOOK THIS IS HER NOT CHANGING HER MIND."

    Like, everything you've said literally means the EXACT opposite of what you say it does, AND THEN you keep saying I've said things I haven't in order to "prove me wrong" when you're arguing against a point I never made.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-03-17 at 06:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  7. #207
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Ye, that is the last thing I read about it to, so maybe with NEW knowledge after SL we might be able or rather should be able to strike quite a blow at those pesky ghouls who still linger there and actually take the f over. I always liked Stratholme and it would be a much safer refuge for the Forsaken as a whole and also the place has a lot of lore to it so it would feel very rich.

    With that entrance it's kinda ironic,fun and interesting at the same time, cus it's the same entrance as SW. So we would have an undead SW and a human SW in a way.
    Plus the portal right next door to Blood elf lands if they need support
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  8. #208
    What is even going on here?
    the report systems sucks and the mods are bias.

  9. #209
    The Forsaken should get back Lordaeron once Teldrassil is fully restored and the Alliance is allowed to kill exactly the same number of Forsaken as Night Elves died in Teldrassil. Most Forsaken were able to flee Undercity, most Night elves were unable to flee Teldrassil, so Lordaeron should only be returned to the Forsaken once they faced the same level of mass death.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    The Forsaken should get back Lordaeron once Teldrassil is fully restored and the Alliance is allowed to kill exactly the same number of Forsaken as Night Elves died in Teldrassil. Most Forsaken were able to flee Undercity, most Night elves were unable to flee Teldrassil, so Lordaeron should only be returned to the Forsaken once they faced the same level of mass death.
    So you want another faction war?
    the report systems sucks and the mods are bias.

  11. #211
    Hopefully they all rot away and we don’t have to deal with zombies any more.

  12. #212
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    I'd say the Argent Crusade are one of the "true owners" of Lordaeron since they're from the Lordaeronian military and Silver Hand priests and paladins. They're okay with Forsaken so the Forsaken are still one of the "true owners" of Lordaeron too and the Alliance has no reason to force them out
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  13. #213
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    After the Gnomes stop slacking and get Gnomeregan back. Nobody will miss Gnomeregan as a dungeon. Do it Blizz.

  14. #214
    Legally and morally the moment you die you loose ownership over everything. The only land the walking corpses deserve is a hole in a cosy graveyard.

  15. #215
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    ^no

    10 characters
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  16. #216
    Nobody took it from them. They blighted it themselves. You don't burn down your own home and then ask for others to give it back... What nonsense is this?

  17. #217
    I'm confused. I didn't play BFA. Who owns Lordaeron now? If not the Forsaken, where are they? Did they lose Silverpine, Tirisfal, and Hillsbrad?
    Also the Forsaken lived there and owned those lands when they were alive too. Why would anyone question if it belongs to them or na? For that few survivor, they all should just give up their land? Sounds like people have some pent up racism, lol.
    I mean they could probably share with the survivors if they really wanted to, but BFA pretty much ruined the factions relationship.
    But people who are like "hurrdurr idc about forsaken it's not their land" need to take a chill pill.

  18. #218
    The Patient Yuli's Avatar
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    Funny RP thread, OP. I'd say I'm sad it derailed but it never was on rails.
    Lordaeron is currently militarily occupied by the Alliance.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lordaeron#Battle_for_Azeroth

    And the peace treaty doesn't contest that.
    WoW gives all players a glimpse of lore, but delivers well thought-out books for the nerds. Forums like MMO-C are the hotspot of discussion, because every reader reads a book different, and every player reads a game different, not everyone played every quest, and not everyone read every book. Sylvanas' character motivation is the most obvious example of that.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor View Post
    Legally and morally the moment you die you loose ownership over everything. The only land the walking corpses deserve is a hole in a cosy graveyard.
    Except this is a world with magic so trying to implement real life law on this subject is quite silly. Especially if the overwhelming majority of the said lands are undead, and the previous governments/kingdoms are non existent. Said lands belong to them just as much as to those who survived.
    Morals have nothing to do with this.

  20. #220
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor View Post
    Legally and morally the moment you die you loose ownership over everything. The only land the walking corpses deserve is a hole in a cosy graveyard.
    Look, this was the canon attitude of Humans in WC3/Vanilla, and that's why Sylvanas christened the sentient undead as Forsaken. Because their families, friends, all their acquaintances were *poof* gone - and it makes sense on both sides of the equation.

    What doesn't make sense is Golden's book where undeath is depicted as basically nothing more than a skin condition, where even long-term foes of the sentient zombies (and understandably so) are made to "see the Light" and realise that those gray skinned folks aren't so bad after all - where living people are implicitly more than willing to hug their relatives, even if the latter are a bunch of tattered, smelly corpses.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2021-03-17 at 03:07 PM.

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