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  1. #241
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    If Blizz will reinstate Undercity I expect it to happen when Forsaken leadership is figured out. As it stands Voss is their acting representative in the Horde council, with Calia as her support as well as seeking to heal their spirits or something. Maybe when Shadowlands is over and done with we get back to more mortal matters.

    I always disliked Undercity, though, so I wouldn't mind if it caved in and the Forsaken had to build new dwellings on top of it.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  2. #242
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hortrorog View Post
    But they are not dead anymore. So why would they just give up their lands? Also if you really want to get technical the kingdoms and their laws cased to exist, and pretty sure there wasn't any points about what if you die but come back to life, so why would anyone be like "guess I died, I just give up all my earthly belongings and live on the streets and in the wild". They live now, the land belongs to them and to those few survivors.

    Same can be said about Jon's situation from the other perspective. Why would he be like "guess I'm alive again, I stay on this wall forever while undead and a crazy lady wants to take over the world, because a vow I made".

    Trying to apply laws in this situation is really pointless. At the end of day people will interpret this situation to their benefits.
    Isn't that the whole point of this thread to discuss this? What are the laws of Lordaeron? What happens if Terenas Menethil II and Terenas Menethil I are both raised as forsaken? Who is the leader then? II? I? Calia? Whoever gets raised as forsaken first? last?

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    How? The Forsaken have made it clear over and over again that their goal as a nation is to commit genocide on all humans to curse them into undeath.
    Just let it rest.. my god its a game. Hyjal is your next best shot. Tendrassil is over and done.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    If Blizz will reinstate Undercity I expect it to happen when Forsaken leadership is figured out. As it stands Voss is their acting representative in the Horde council, with Calia as her support as well as seeking to heal their spirits or something. Maybe when Shadowlands is over and done with we get back to more mortal matters.

    I always disliked Undercity, though, so I wouldn't mind if it caved in and the Forsaken had to build new dwellings on top of it.
    If they are smart, they go and clear out stratholme and get some refuge there.

    Undercity is vanilla nostalgia and nothing more, its realy time to move on.

  4. #244
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Just let it rest.. my god its a game. Hyjal is your next best shot. Tendrassil is over and done.
    kinda weird they actually used Felwood as a staging ground yet they ignored it and didn't advance towards Felwood, Winterspring, and Hyjal
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Just let it rest.. my god its a game. Hyjal is your next best shot. Tendrassil is over and done.
    Then the Forsaken shouldn't get Lordaeron back never again. I mean, it should belong to the Argent Crusade to begin with. The Argent Crusaders were the ones who freed it from the scourge and the Argent Crusade stopped Arthas while the Forsaken were busy attacking his enemies with the plague.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Night elves were allowed to relocate to Hyjal and conquered Darkshore in a one sided scenario. When will the playable undead get their own scenario for Tirisfal? Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken always and forever. No i don’t want replies from alliance zealots. Stay out of my topic.
    Maybe they can wait for any Alliance territory gain to actually be shown ingame XD
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Maybe they can wait for any Alliance territory gain to actually be shown ingame XD
    This is also a fair point, we're always shown when the Horde wins, the Alliance is rarely to such things, it usually just suffers obediently in the game.
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  8. #248
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Then the Forsaken shouldn't get Lordaeron back never again. I mean, it should belong to the Argent Crusade to begin with. The Argent Crusaders were the ones who freed it from the scourge and the Argent Crusade stopped Arthas while the Forsaken were busy attacking his enemies with the plague.
    and they're perfectly fine with the Forsaken, and it's (proxy) leaders: Maxwell Tyrosus, and Eligor Dawnbringer are both friends with Eitrigg and the Horde and they would honor the friendship of Tirion and Eitrigg; if anything they should stop the Alliance from further harassing the Forsaken off Lordaeron
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  9. #249
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Then the Forsaken shouldn't get Lordaeron back never again. I mean, it should belong to the Argent Crusade to begin with. The Argent Crusaders were the ones who freed it from the scourge and the Argent Crusade stopped Arthas while the Forsaken were busy attacking his enemies with the plague.
    Um, no, that isn't how the story goes. The AC was the result of the AD and the "moderate" elements of the Scarlet Crusade merging together, and as such it didn't even exist prior to WotLK. Sure, they cleansed most of WPL and a few spots here and there in EPL, but that was only with Arthas down, and thus with a new, far more cooperative LK sitting in Icecrown. Which at the end of the day, is just pocket money compared to the civil war in the Plaguelands of WC3.

    Now you could argue that Sylvanas at that time benefited a lot from the LK being in a weakened state, but even so, she did a lot more against the Scourge than both the SC and the AD put together, at least prior to Cata.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Night elves were allowed to relocate to Hyjal and conquered Darkshore in a one sided scenario. When will the playable undead get their own scenario for Tirisfal? Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken always and forever. No i don’t want replies from alliance zealots. Stay out of my topic.
    Lordaeron belongs to the humans, we must drive the forsaken away.
    For the alliance !

  11. #251
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    Lordaeron belongs to the humans, we must drive the forsaken away.
    For the alliance !
    I'm actually interested too see another take on this now that Calia has inserted herself among the Forsaken. If they're really her people she must defend them against any threat; even her friends in the Alliance.

    Her insert into the thick of it was so sudden and cheesy I would like her to harden as a person if we can't just have her die off.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  12. #252
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hortrorog View Post

    It's a pixel tree. You survive.\
    No way, really?!
    "For Teldrassil."
    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Then the Forsaken shouldn't get Lordaeron back never again. I mean, it should belong to the Argent Crusade to begin with. The Argent Crusaders were the ones who freed it from the scourge and the Argent Crusade stopped Arthas while the Forsaken were busy attacking his enemies with the plague.
    That is not how it went, that was only afther arthas, the cleansing of epl and wpl only started in cata and like others have said they have undead and humans in their ranks. Even afther Arthas they still didnt manage to get stratholme back for example. Its not weird to think these forsaken and humans together with help of the player to cleanse or clear the plague fot new refuge. Besides the Argent Crusade thry could get help from frosaken en blood elf allies. I mean the doorway to blood elf lands is right next to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    Lordaeron belongs to the humans, we must drive the forsaken away.
    For the alliance !
    I mean 16 years it has been.. of wow and they were always forsaken lands. I feel like that claim has lost its meaning some time ago. Forsaken are dead humans right? Arent most of them just people who already lived there?

    But I would say to horde players.. let it rest and move on. Undercity is not even a great refuge nowadays.

  14. #254
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Besides the Argent Crusade thry could get help from frosaken en blood elf allies. I mean the doorway to blood elf lands is right next to it.
    I've always been saying that the Argent Crusade would be better on the Horde geopolitically since Forsaken are their own people, they are also close neighbors as well as the Blood Elves, and doing so will restore the old friendship of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas. Stratholme could be a nice Sunwalker and Blood Knight hub and Zul'mashar could be an all-troll hub. And then there's that Thalassian Harbor just between Hearthglen and Stratholme which is also an easy trade route between Lordaeron and Quel'thalas
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  15. #255
    Imagine Darnassus and lordaeron become player's or guild housing. Faction leader award land for all we achieve and we rebuilt kingdom by gathered ressources in a bigger and better version of wod garrisson

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Badflat View Post
    Imagine Darnassus and lordaeron become player's or guild housing. Faction leader award land for all we achieve and we rebuilt kingdom by gathered ressources in a bigger and better version of wod garrisson
    Yo can we get you into the dev team?

  17. #257
    High Overlord Shadowtwili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I've always been saying that the Argent Crusade would be better on the Horde geopolitically since Forsaken are their own people
    Big disagreement here, the Forsaken are their own people (or race?) of undeath, and not all Forsaken are former Lordaeron humans either, there are Forsaken high elves, blood elves, night elves and gnomes.

    Also, I disagree with that the Forsaken are the Argent Crusade's own people, Forsaken come from many nations (Stormwind, Dalaran, Gilneas, Gnomeregan, Quel'thalas, Darnassus, Kul Tiras etc) so they would be as much those nation's "people" as they would be the Argent Crusade's people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    they are also close neighbors as well as the Blood Elves
    Except for the fact that the Ghostlands and most of the Eastern Plaguelands are still undeath, troll and who knows what more dangererous creature infested. Yes they are neighbours, but so are the night elves and orcs, and they don't (can't) align with eachother either.

    Also, if the Argent Crusade would align themselves with the Horde, they're so spread out that the waning Horde forces in the Eastern Kingdoms would be unable to protect the vast majority of Forsaken and Argent lands if/when the Alliance does invade in the Fifth War(tm).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    and doing so will restore the old friendship of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas.
    Lordaeron and Quel'thalas have never been "friends", aloof allies at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Stratholme could be a nice Sunwalker and Blood Knight hub and Zul'mashar could be an all-troll hub.
    Stratholme should be the capital of the Argent Crusade, Sunwalker druids should have nothing in common with the Paladins of the Crusade and the Blood Knights of Quel'thalas. Also the Blood Knights have their own bases (or should have) and not have to share with the human-centric/majority Argent Crusade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    And then there's that Thalassian Harbor just between Hearthglen and Stratholme which is also an easy trade route between Lordaeron and Quel'thalas
    Is that still a thing in-Lore?


    Also, on the subject of the Forsaken lands.

    Personally I am a fan of the Forsaken claiming Alterac City, rebuilding it as a proper Forsaken City (instead of a derelict human one), building into the mountain underneath it too.

    Alterac is centrally located, making the Forsaken able to strike at the Alliance-occupied (reclaimed?) Southshore, Fenris and Shadowfang Keeps.

    Alterac is defensible, it is surrounded by (cold) mountains and has roads leading directly to Forsaken-controlled Andorhal (I guess the largest city with the loss of Lordaeron city?), the Sludge Fields, Tarren Mill and Southpoint Gate, the Forsaken might even be able to capture and rebuild Durnholde as a fortress to keep watch over Thoradin's Wall and the road to Aerie Peak ensuring the Alliance can't easily invade over land as they would control all acces points into Hillsbrad Foothills and Western Plaguelands.

    Alterac is cold, this would help them maintain their decaying bodies.

    Alterac is abandoned, the Forsaken could easily rebuild it as a proper Forsaken city (using the structures seen in WotLK) OR they could build it in a way that each Forsaken nationality would have their own "district", ei Kul Tiran buildings for Kul Tiran Forsaken, Gnomish buildings for gnomish Forsaken, Thalassian buildings for Thalassian Forsaken etc.

    They could expand downwards, increasing the size of their city and/or making a second Undercity.

    They are close to the Frostwolf Clan, we know that the Desolate Council was a pretty oke group, which shows that without Sylvanas' influence the Forsaken actually are closer to living humans than we thought, so if Voss and Calia can restore that part of the Forsaken the Frostwolves wouldn't abandon their closest allies as easily anymore.

    This is just my two cents, tho. Feel free to bash.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I've always been saying that the Argent Crusade would be better on the Horde geopolitically since Forsaken are their own people, they are also close neighbors as well as the Blood Elves, and doing so will restore the old friendship of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas. Stratholme could be a nice Sunwalker and Blood Knight hub and Zul'mashar could be an all-troll hub. And then there's that Thalassian Harbor just between Hearthglen and Stratholme which is also an easy trade route between Lordaeron and Quel'thalas
    Yea, those are cool ideas. I would go as fsr and say that stratholme could be the new forsaken place to be and have sub sections of that city with argent crusade or like you said with blood knights etc. Stratholme has a rich history with crusaders so would be cool.

    That harbor could also be expended into that great harbor from artwork we have seen with the sunwell in the back.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowtwili View Post
    Big disagreement here, the Forsaken are their own people (or race?) of undeath, and not all Forsaken are former Lordaeron humans either, there are Forsaken high elves, blood elves, night elves and gnomes.

    Also, I disagree with that the Forsaken are the Argent Crusade's own people, Forsaken come from many nations (Stormwind, Dalaran, Gilneas, Gnomeregan, Quel'thalas, Darnassus, Kul Tiras etc) so they would be as much those nation's "people" as they would be the Argent Crusade's people.



    Except for the fact that the Ghostlands and most of the Eastern Plaguelands are still undeath, troll and who knows what more dangererous creature infested. Yes they are neighbours, but so are the night elves and orcs, and they don't (can't) align with eachother either.

    Also, if the Argent Crusade would align themselves with the Horde, they're so spread out that the waning Horde forces in the Eastern Kingdoms would be unable to protect the vast majority of Forsaken and Argent lands if/when the Alliance does invade in the Fifth War(tm).



    Lordaeron and Quel'thalas have never been "friends", aloof allies at best.



    Stratholme should be the capital of the Argent Crusade, Sunwalker druids should have nothing in common with the Paladins of the Crusade and the Blood Knights of Quel'thalas. Also the Blood Knights have their own bases (or should have) and not have to share with the human-centric/majority Argent Crusade.



    Is that still a thing in-Lore?


    Also, on the subject of the Forsaken lands.

    Personally I am a fan of the Forsaken claiming Alterac City, rebuilding it as a proper Forsaken City (instead of a derelict human one), building into the mountain underneath it too.

    Alterac is centrally located, making the Forsaken able to strike at the Alliance-occupied (reclaimed?) Southshore, Fenris and Shadowfang Keeps.

    Alterac is defensible, it is surrounded by (cold) mountains and has roads leading directly to Forsaken-controlled Andorhal (I guess the largest city with the loss of Lordaeron city?), the Sludge Fields, Tarren Mill and Southpoint Gate, the Forsaken might even be able to capture and rebuild Durnholde as a fortress to keep watch over Thoradin's Wall and the road to Aerie Peak ensuring the Alliance can't easily invade over land as they would control all acces points into Hillsbrad Foothills and Western Plaguelands.

    Alterac is cold, this would help them maintain their decaying bodies.

    Alterac is abandoned, the Forsaken could easily rebuild it as a proper Forsaken city (using the structures seen in WotLK) OR they could build it in a way that each Forsaken nationality would have their own "district", ei Kul Tiran buildings for Kul Tiran Forsaken, Gnomish buildings for gnomish Forsaken, Thalassian buildings for Thalassian Forsaken etc.

    They could expand downwards, increasing the size of their city and/or making a second Undercity.

    They are close to the Frostwolf Clan, we know that the Desolate Council was a pretty oke group, which shows that without Sylvanas' influence the Forsaken actually are closer to living humans than we thought, so if Voss and Calia can restore that part of the Forsaken the Frostwolves wouldn't abandon their closest allies as easily anymore.

    This is just my two cents, tho. Feel free to bash.
    I still prefer Stratholme, but i like this take too.
    Stratholme does have that little bit of extra background that makes it suitable; it's where Arthas' descent began after all, and a very neat city in its own right.

    And the issue with Alterac is that it is within striking range from at least two Alliance Strongholds, namely Stromgarde in the reclaimed Arathi highlands and Aerie Peak in particular, as its altitudes would favor the aerial superiority the dwarves could provide. Third would be the presumably reclaimed kingdom of Gilneas, which too is not too far away.

    And last but not least: Alterac is currently in the hands of the Syndicate and ogres i believe, to capture it would be no easy feat (then again that might just make it all the more epic if they make a proper event out of it).

    Also it must be noted that the Forsaken are not the best engineers, the Undercity was convenient due to the sewers and dungeons, Alterac does not have such a ready built "undercity" currently, if it ever had one.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  20. #260
    They should never come back to the eastern kingdom.
    They are literally a plague upon every land they touch. The alliance should do everything they can to deny them any land there.

    Instead they could take some land in Kalimdor. Like Desolace for example. More fitting anyway. And more secure for them. Or at least move up to the bloodelves into that plagued forrest. Allready looks like they are living there anyway^^

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