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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    What I wonder is... why exactly? Horde leaders have every reason to question her loyalty and why would the Forsaken identify with her?

    Someone please ask Uther where he threw Arthas if we must have a Menethil on the throne
    Now that would be interesting, to drag Arthas back from hell just to have him sit in lordship iver the people he damned in the first place.
    I mean there are some ifs and buts, but frankly even treating him like Kil'jaeden did Ner'zhul would not make the forsaken trust him.

    But admittedly the idea of fishing up Arthas from the dump and dumping him in Lordaeron on a dumpster throne seems mildly entertaining.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I have always been a Horde player, since that seems to matter to you, and attempts at equal treatment in WoW is part of why the storytelling is so bad. I don't want equal treatment, I want the Forsaken to be forced to evolve and adapt. Whether that means permanently taking Stratholme and turning it into a new fortress that's closer to their Elf allies, or evacuating to Kalimdor and establishing a new homeland where the Horde is strongest. Maybe Dustwallow Marsh?

    Same with the Night Elves. Last thing I want is for them to just rebuild Darnassus 2.0. They should instead be terrified that the Horde just might decide the other big tree in Kalimdor needs to go away too. I'd like to see them converging on Hyjal fortifying the area and militarizing their society even more.

    But Lordaeron is lost. Sylvanas sacrificed it completely, leaving the only major Horde stronghold in Eastern Kingdoms to be Quel'thalas. Meanwhile the Alliance has every reason to retake Gilneas, and to follow that up with making sure Gilneas has no immediate threats by preventing the rebuilding of Lordaeron.
    I used to say that the Forsaken building a new capital on the ruins of Theramore would have been fantastic. But that was back when I thought they were trying to make Kalimdor Horde and EK Alliance as well as thinking they were just going to embrace being the bad guys instead of having a moral schism.

    (I really thought we were going to get like 4-5 more warfronts during BFA, and that one was going to be in the Ghostlands/Eversong - when will I learn lol)
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    I did read the novel. It was awful. Baine and Thrall allowed Tyrande to subjugate them. It was embarassing to read.
    Obeying Tyrande was probaly the wiser choice.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Ah, promising golden mountains and delivering a pile of somewhat shiny bottlecaps.
    I had heard of the negative reception and was disappointdd and dissuaded, then i forgot about it.

    A bit of accidental luck it seems.
    On the topic of WC3RF, I enjoyed the campaign. They changed up the town maps but left the others mostly alone. The part I was saddest about was the lack of redone voice acting, but I thought it was a fun revisiting of those games. The release screwed with multiplayer in a bad way, and there were a lot of bugs initially, but the bugs have been ironed out for the most part.

  5. #105
    When worgen do. Or night elves. Or gnomes. Or trolls. Or goblins. Or Theramore humans. Or blood elves with that half of Silvermoon that never seems to be rebuilt.

    Man, I really wish WoW would stop blowing shit up as a way to promote their new expansions. It was exciting at first but now it's just like "welp, there goes another one".
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    On the topic of WC3RF, I enjoyed the campaign. They changed up the town maps but left the others mostly alone. The part I was saddest about was the lack of redone voice acting, but I thought it was a fun revisiting of those games. The release screwed with multiplayer in a bad way, and there were a lot of bugs initially, but the bugs have been ironed out for the most part.
    It's for sure still enjoyable, especially if you don't go into it with a head full of promises of new VOs, updated lore, extra maps etc lol.

    The new models and textures are wonderful too, and the remastered cinematics are enjoyable, I even enjoyed the Arthas vs Illidan one, which to be fair is entirely new. If you have some extra gold to convert to blizz balance Ioras, it's worth the nostalgic romp.

    I just really really wish we had that updated lore =( Now I just delude myself into thinking we'll get wc4 one day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    This is not up to discussion.
    Curious, in a forum.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    It's for sure still enjoyable, especially if you don't go into it with a head full of promises of new VOs, updated lore, extra maps etc lol.

    The new models and textures are wonderful too, and the remastered cinematics are enjoyable, I even enjoyed the Arthas vs Illidan one, which to be fair is entirely new. If you have some extra gold to convert to blizz balance Ioras, it's worth the nostalgic romp.

    I just really really wish we had that updated lore =( Now I just delude myself into thinking we'll get wc4 one day.
    Huh, i just might.
    I mostly have trouble finding time to play though, so when i find that i'll remind myself of this.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post

    I already said in the OP that I don't want alliance players in my topic. Sort yourself out please.
    Wants an echo chamber. Big surprise there.

  10. #110
    "Fair", meawhile Hillsbrad Fields, Southshore, all of Gilneas, and Theramore lay in ruin.

  11. #111
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupinemancer View Post
    They never will, Lordearon belongs to the living citizens.
    Lordaeron belongs to their owners, be it undead or living. The Argent Crusade accepts Forsaken as their brethren and they aren't even self-righteous to oust them

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    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Brill was destroyed during the siege i think.
    then rebuild it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    On the topic of WC3RF, I enjoyed the campaign. They changed up the town maps but left the others mostly alone. The part I was saddest about was the lack of redone voice acting, but I thought it was a fun revisiting of those games. The release screwed with multiplayer in a bad way, and there were a lot of bugs initially, but the bugs have been ironed out for the most part.
    You should check out the Re-Reforged campaign

    https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...-horde.323114/
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Lordaeron belongs to their owners, be it undead or living. The Argent Crusade accepts Forsaken as their brethren and they aren't even self-righteous to oust them

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    then rebuild it

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    You should check out the Re-Reforged campaign

    https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...-horde.323114/
    Well there went my weekend. Hope they do the rest of the campaigns too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    You should check out the Re-Reforged campaign

    https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...-horde.323114/
    I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

  14. #114
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Night elves were allowed to relocate to Hyjal and conquered Darkshore in a one sided scenario. When will the playable undead get their own scenario for Tirisfal? Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken always and forever. No i don’t want replies from alliance zealots. Stay out of my topic.
    When will the Gilneans get back Gilneas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    They owned that land ever since vanilla. They are as much pwners of it as night elves are of their lands. These are the facts. Alliance power fantasies don't dispute that.
    Gilneans owned their land since before vanilla, when will they get theirs back?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    You don't get to bulldoze over an entire playable race and get to call it fair. The Forsaken deserve to keep Lordaeron the same way night elves get Darkshore and Ashenvale. This is not up to discussion.

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    Glad that you don't get to write the lore. Alliance players love their one sided power fantasies.
    Says the person who is "demanding" their favorite races gets the land back that they destroyed after The Forsaken destroyed 2 races homelands, neither of them can be returned because they're burned or polluted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Silverpine, Hillsbrad, Tirisfal and Andorhal are all Forsaken home turf. I will take nothing less then all these places back under strong Forsaken control.
    Sounds a lot like a one sided power fantasy, demanding something back without giving reparations to the two races homelands that they ruined.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post

    And of course, the starting zones for BE/Draenei should be fully revamped to allow flight, and their capital cities could really use some sort of graphic upgrade. They are embarrassingly low-res, even when compared to the ~10 years old SW/Org, and a definite joke when taking Dazar'alor or Boralus into account.

    Going by the expansions since MoP they have been removing settlements from either faction from each continent, Kalimdor only has the Draenei left, off the mainland, and scattered night elf villages/towns (if you go by lore as in game... erg) and the Blood Elves in Silvermoon which is 'kind of' off the continent, I doubt all that is a coincidence.

  16. #116
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Night elves conquered Darkshore back and left Stormwind for Hyjal. Now I demand from Blizzard that Forsaken get the same treatment and return to their hometurf in Lordaeron since that would be the FAIR thing to do. Obviously I can't expect fairness from alliance fanatics it seems.
    So in your all mighty opinion, the Forsaken who destroyed Gilneas, Darnassus, Darkshore, and their own home deserve to get it back with no repentance...no reparations

    Only fanatic is you...saying people aren't "true" Horde because they don't agree with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    I did read the novel. It was awful. Baine and Thrall allowed Tyrande to subjugate them. It was embarassing to read.

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    I am a true Horde patriot. And it is not a crime to want good things for the races in the game you care about.
    Ahh yes, tyrant hiding behind "patriotism", making demands and saying who ever dare not fall in line with you is not true Horde
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    Look, I'm Horde exclusively, I played the War of Thorns and I didn't even want to do it. But the Night Elves didn't destroy the Night Elf lands? You can't demand repatriation of your own land that your own leaders destroyed and polluted to make it uninhabitable. Especially since that move was a stupid-ass over-the-top ploy that served little purpose than to maximise the death of enemy, and ally, forces. The Forsaken deserve exactly what they have: To be refuges in a foreign and uncomfortable land, because they blindly followed a leader who did not stick to the principals upon which their faith in her was based. Sylvanas turned on free-will gradually and publicly. A council even formed in recognition of this and she had them all put down, treachery or not, and they were given the dignity of burial only by their enemies!
    This is beyond wrong on every single count. First of all, the Forsaken can clean most of strains of the Blight, with the only exception being Southshore where the strain was too strong by accident. Gilneas was populated by the Forsaken by the time of Before the Storm, for example.

    Secondly, the Horde retreated before Sylvanas detonated it at Lordaeron, meaning there was no "maximization of death of ally forces".

    Thirdly, maximizing the death of the enemy is kinda what you should be aiming for in a siege, especially once they breached the walls and even more so once they continue to survive storming consequent lines of defense because of Jaina ex machina.

    Fourthly, the Desolate Council didn't form "in recognition" of "Sylvanas turning on Forsaken faith in free will". The Desolate Council formed because they needed to run Undercity's day to day operation due to Sylvanas' departure to Orgrimmar. And while some members opposed Sylvanas' plan to enslave Eyir, nothing has been said that they did that over the enslavement part itself. All that has been said was about them not wanting to become immortal. Plus, again, it was just some of the Desolate Council members. As in, you know, not all of them.

    Fifthly, Desolate Council's (lack of) opinion on the enslavement of Eyir aside, Forsaken's "faith" in free will never extended beyond non-Forsaken. All they ever gave a shit about was undead not being turned into puppets of a necromancer again, because that's the very experience that they went through. Sylvanas openly had her Banshees mind control a bunch of Ogres and Murlocs as early as W3. No Forsaken gave a fuck. One of her Apothecaries paraded a lobotomized woman he turned into his pet around Undercity and no Forsaken reacted with as much as an eye twitch.

    Sixthly, you can't put aside the treachery from the deaths of (like a half of) Desolate Council members because that's what led her to kill them. Trying to pin it on how the Desolate Council formed in opposition to her trying to enslave Eyir (which is false) instead is even more erroneous. The only link between their actual attitudes towards the whole Eyir situation and them dying is that Sylvanas made a sarcastic remark that she's giving them the death they wanted.


    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Actually Dalaran, the scarlet crusade, arugal, the syndicate, various ogres, the scourge and likely many more did dispute that, all the way back in vanilla already.
    Killing the rightful owners does not automatically make you the rightful owner. It becomes even iffier if the ones making claims are dead themselves.
    There is no Dalaran, Arugal, Syndicate or various Ogres presence in Tirisfal. And the Forsaken are not only not dead (the un- prefix is there for a reason), but they are the rightful owners of that territory. Not the Syndicate (Alterac origin), Dalaran (quite obviously Dalaran origin), Arugal (Gilnean origin) and especially not various Ogres (other planet origin). Scarlet Crusade on the other hand was one of the successors of the very organization that was dismantled by the crown prince of the Kingdom of Lordaeron before he went mad (with that split happening only after the disbanding, because Silver Hand just ignored what Arthas did and merrily continued its business), making its existence rather iffy in context of the kingdom. And while the Scourge was in general in the same boat as the Forsaken, they had the key difference of still being puppets of a foreign invader.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Gilneas is habitable. There were black dragons and their human lackeys living there back in Cataclysm, a few patches after it got blighted. The Gilneans haven't moved back in because they don't have the forces to take back the city and then hold the land against another Horde invasion, I presume. Now that they lost their second home, it may motivate them to try a bit more.
    It's not the prospect of just another invasion. It's the prospect of having to force Forsaken out. In Before the Storm Genn himself said that Gilneas was at the time home to the Forsaken.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Humans probably don't care about Hillsbrad anymore but the Stormpikes (greedy bastards) however would get really pissed about having to withdraw out of that valley...Frostwolves would probably be very happy about it.
    Not really. The Stormpikes already made an agreement to GTFO out of Alterac before Cataclysm. The only reason that wasn't finalized was because the war resumed before that happened. Given how they got nuked the shit out of them thanks to the Goblin-Forsaken team up and with all of nearby Alliance outposts they could trade with being eradicated, there shouldn't be much keeping them still in the valley.


    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    You don't want to look back at the most ancient claims, but you do want Lordaeron to belong to the Forsaken "now and forever"?

    Setting aside the idea that anyone suggested Lordaeron belongs to the Trolls, there are citizens of Lordaeron on both sides of the conflict. This was the whole point of Before the Storm, which delved into the relationships between Forsaken and their living relatives. Them, along with the Scarlet Crusade and many of the Argent Crusade's human members, are all people displaced from their "home turf".
    The undead side is simply larger though. Arthas wiped 90% of High Elves and that's an enemy that was expecting him. He took Lordaeron by surprise, striking at its largest city (and the only one still existing as Stratholme was already purged by the time) from within (after people flocked to the capital to greet the returning prince no less) and then he blocked the mountain passes to slaughter as many refugees as he could. Given how the Scarlet Crusade has been turned into a punching bag on at least five different occasions, they only skewed the balance of survivors towards the undead even more.


    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Yes? Even their own courts have recently started admitting that.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/07/09/88956...=1615489418739

    (i just picked the first source that came up, not caring about political affiliations; it was widely reported so if this particular source disagrees with your colors you can easily find another)
    This is just a blatant misrepresentation of that verdict. The reason it went this way is because the State of Oklahoma is a merger of the territories of prior Territory of Oklahoma and Indian Territory. With Indian Territory being where US forced the Native Americans relocated during the Trail of Tears. And with US then making treaties with the Native Americans about their rights to that new territory. This case is exclusively about the rights of Native Americans in the part of Oklahoma that used to be Indian Territory (specifically about the superiority of their law there) and has fuck all to do with US as a whole.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2021-03-11 at 11:25 PM.
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    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  18. #118
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Ideally, never. I was fine with the Forsaken keeping the remains of their own homeland, but now that they'd have to carve something out on their own I'm against giving them anything that would deprive a living race of resources. Them repopulating at all is not even morally sound unless every Forsaken has a choice like Calia. Azeroth would be better off if the druids and shamans were allowed to continue healing the land uncontested. Hell, just give it back to a mix of the elves, trolls, humans, and dwarves. Let Forsaken find their place in life without destroying it for once.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    This is a good take, also more fitting thematically, as Stratholme is where the morals truly became muddled.

    Plus it's a sweet-ass city.
    And Scholomance would mean another tiring cellar-sewer-city.
    Whoa, whoa there! A polite and well-thought out post! That's that doing on these forums!

    OT: Seriously, though, a good idea. Not just for the reasons you said, but it's also one of the closest human areas to Quel'thalas. Reducing the distance between the two powers would allow them better to come to each other's aid. There's a reason we needed that teleport orb to get across.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Ideally, never. I was fine with the Forsaken keeping the remains of their own homeland, but now that they'd have to carve something out on their own I'm against giving them anything that would deprive a living race of resources. Them repopulating at all is not even morally sound unless every Forsaken has a choice like Calia. Azeroth would be better off if the druids and shamans were allowed to continue healing the land uncontested. Hell, just give it back to a mix of the elves, trolls, humans, and dwarves. Let Forsaken find their place in life without destroying it for once.
    What living race would they be depriving of anything by keeping their territory? Murlocs? Because even the local Gnolls are undead.


    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Whoa, whoa there! A polite and well-thought out post! That's that doing on these forums!

    OT: Seriously, though, a good idea. Not just for the reasons you said, but it's also one of the closest human areas to Quel'thalas. Reducing the distance between the two powers would allow them better to come to each other's aid. There's a reason we needed that teleport orb to get across.
    Stratholme is already under (partial) Argent Crusade/Silver Hand control though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

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