When will the Forsaken get their lands back?

[Ardenaso]

Besides the Argent Crusade thry could get help from frosaken en blood elf allies. I mean the doorway to blood elf lands is right next to it.

I've always been saying that the Argent Crusade would be better on the Horde geopolitically since Forsaken are their own people, they are also close neighbors as well as the Blood Elves, and doing so will restore the old friendship of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas. Stratholme could be a nice Sunwalker and Blood Knight hub and Zul'mashar could be an all-troll hub. And then there's that Thalassian Harbor just between Hearthglen and Stratholme which is also an easy trade route between Lordaeron and Quel'thalas

[Badflat]

Imagine Darnassus and lordaeron become player's or guild housing. Faction leader award land for all we achieve and we rebuilt kingdom by gathered ressources in a bigger and better version of wod garrisson

[Dastreus]

Imagine Darnassus and lordaeron become player's or guild housing. Faction leader award land for all we achieve and we rebuilt kingdom by gathered ressources in a bigger and better version of wod garrisson

Yo can we get you into the dev team?

[Shadowtwili]

I've always been saying that the Argent Crusade would be better on the Horde geopolitically since Forsaken are their own people

Big disagreement here, the Forsaken are their own people (or race?) of undeath, and not all Forsaken are former Lordaeron humans either, there are Forsaken high elves, blood elves, night elves and gnomes.

Also, I disagree with that the Forsaken are the Argent Crusade's own people, Forsaken come from many nations (Stormwind, Dalaran, Gilneas, Gnomeregan, Quel'thalas, Darnassus, Kul Tiras etc) so they would be as much those nation's "people" as they would be the Argent Crusade's people.

they are also close neighbors as well as the Blood Elves

Except for the fact that the Ghostlands and most of the Eastern Plaguelands are still undeath, troll and who knows what more dangererous creature infested. Yes they are neighbours, but so are the night elves and orcs, and they don't (can't) align with eachother either.

Also, if the Argent Crusade would align themselves with the Horde, they're so spread out that the waning Horde forces in the Eastern Kingdoms would be unable to protect the vast majority of Forsaken and Argent lands if/when the Alliance does invade in the Fifth War(tm).

and doing so will restore the old friendship of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas.

Lordaeron and Quel'thalas have never been "friends", aloof allies at best.

Stratholme could be a nice Sunwalker and Blood Knight hub and Zul'mashar could be an all-troll hub.

Stratholme should be the capital of the Argent Crusade, Sunwalker druids should have nothing in common with the Paladins of the Crusade and the Blood Knights of Quel'thalas. Also the Blood Knights have their own bases (or should have) and not have to share with the human-centric/majority Argent Crusade.

And then there's that Thalassian Harbor just between Hearthglen and Stratholme which is also an easy trade route between Lordaeron and Quel'thalas

Is that still a thing in-Lore?


Also, on the subject of the Forsaken lands.

Personally I am a fan of the Forsaken claiming Alterac City, rebuilding it as a proper Forsaken City (instead of a derelict human one), building into the mountain underneath it too.

Alterac is centrally located, making the Forsaken able to strike at the Alliance-occupied (reclaimed?) Southshore, Fenris and Shadowfang Keeps.

Alterac is defensible, it is surrounded by (cold) mountains and has roads leading directly to Forsaken-controlled Andorhal (I guess the largest city with the loss of Lordaeron city?), the Sludge Fields, Tarren Mill and Southpoint Gate, the Forsaken might even be able to capture and rebuild Durnholde as a fortress to keep watch over Thoradin's Wall and the road to Aerie Peak ensuring the Alliance can't easily invade over land as they would control all acces points into Hillsbrad Foothills and Western Plaguelands.

Alterac is cold, this would help them maintain their decaying bodies.

Alterac is abandoned, the Forsaken could easily rebuild it as a proper Forsaken city (using the structures seen in WotLK) OR they could build it in a way that each Forsaken nationality would have their own "district", ei Kul Tiran buildings for Kul Tiran Forsaken, Gnomish buildings for gnomish Forsaken, Thalassian buildings for Thalassian Forsaken etc.

They could expand downwards, increasing the size of their city and/or making a second Undercity.

They are close to the Frostwolf Clan, we know that the Desolate Council was a pretty oke group, which shows that without Sylvanas' influence the Forsaken actually are closer to living humans than we thought, so if Voss and Calia can restore that part of the Forsaken the Frostwolves wouldn't abandon their closest allies as easily anymore.

This is just my two cents, tho. Feel free to bash.

[Alanar]

I've always been saying that the Argent Crusade would be better on the Horde geopolitically since Forsaken are their own people, they are also close neighbors as well as the Blood Elves, and doing so will restore the old friendship of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas. Stratholme could be a nice Sunwalker and Blood Knight hub and Zul'mashar could be an all-troll hub. And then there's that Thalassian Harbor just between Hearthglen and Stratholme which is also an easy trade route between Lordaeron and Quel'thalas

Yea, those are cool ideas. I would go as fsr and say that stratholme could be the new forsaken place to be and have sub sections of that city with argent crusade or like you said with blood knights etc. Stratholme has a rich history with crusaders so would be cool.

That harbor could also be expended into that great harbor from artwork we have seen with the sunwell in the back.

[loras]

Big disagreement here, the Forsaken are their own people (or race?) of undeath, and not all Forsaken are former Lordaeron humans either, there are Forsaken high elves, blood elves, night elves and gnomes.

Also, I disagree with that the Forsaken are the Argent Crusade's own people, Forsaken come from many nations (Stormwind, Dalaran, Gilneas, Gnomeregan, Quel'thalas, Darnassus, Kul Tiras etc) so they would be as much those nation's "people" as they would be the Argent Crusade's people.



Except for the fact that the Ghostlands and most of the Eastern Plaguelands are still undeath, troll and who knows what more dangererous creature infested. Yes they are neighbours, but so are the night elves and orcs, and they don't (can't) align with eachother either.

Also, if the Argent Crusade would align themselves with the Horde, they're so spread out that the waning Horde forces in the Eastern Kingdoms would be unable to protect the vast majority of Forsaken and Argent lands if/when the Alliance does invade in the Fifth War(tm).



Lordaeron and Quel'thalas have never been "friends", aloof allies at best.



Stratholme should be the capital of the Argent Crusade, Sunwalker druids should have nothing in common with the Paladins of the Crusade and the Blood Knights of Quel'thalas. Also the Blood Knights have their own bases (or should have) and not have to share with the human-centric/majority Argent Crusade.



Is that still a thing in-Lore?


Also, on the subject of the Forsaken lands.

Personally I am a fan of the Forsaken claiming Alterac City, rebuilding it as a proper Forsaken City (instead of a derelict human one), building into the mountain underneath it too.

Alterac is centrally located, making the Forsaken able to strike at the Alliance-occupied (reclaimed?) Southshore, Fenris and Shadowfang Keeps.

Alterac is defensible, it is surrounded by (cold) mountains and has roads leading directly to Forsaken-controlled Andorhal (I guess the largest city with the loss of Lordaeron city?), the Sludge Fields, Tarren Mill and Southpoint Gate, the Forsaken might even be able to capture and rebuild Durnholde as a fortress to keep watch over Thoradin's Wall and the road to Aerie Peak ensuring the Alliance can't easily invade over land as they would control all acces points into Hillsbrad Foothills and Western Plaguelands.

Alterac is cold, this would help them maintain their decaying bodies.

Alterac is abandoned, the Forsaken could easily rebuild it as a proper Forsaken city (using the structures seen in WotLK) OR they could build it in a way that each Forsaken nationality would have their own "district", ei Kul Tiran buildings for Kul Tiran Forsaken, Gnomish buildings for gnomish Forsaken, Thalassian buildings for Thalassian Forsaken etc.

They could expand downwards, increasing the size of their city and/or making a second Undercity.

They are close to the Frostwolf Clan, we know that the Desolate Council was a pretty oke group, which shows that without Sylvanas' influence the Forsaken actually are closer to living humans than we thought, so if Voss and Calia can restore that part of the Forsaken the Frostwolves wouldn't abandon their closest allies as easily anymore.

This is just my two cents, tho. Feel free to bash.

I still prefer Stratholme, but i like this take too.
Stratholme does have that little bit of extra background that makes it suitable; it's where Arthas' descent began after all, and a very neat city in its own right.

And the issue with Alterac is that it is within striking range from at least two Alliance Strongholds, namely Stromgarde in the reclaimed Arathi highlands and Aerie Peak in particular, as its altitudes would favor the aerial superiority the dwarves could provide. Third would be the presumably reclaimed kingdom of Gilneas, which too is not too far away.

And last but not least: Alterac is currently in the hands of the Syndicate and ogres i believe, to capture it would be no easy feat (then again that might just make it all the more epic if they make a proper event out of it).

Also it must be noted that the Forsaken are not the best engineers, the Undercity was convenient due to the sewers and dungeons, Alterac does not have such a ready built "undercity" currently, if it ever had one.

[VinceVega]

They should never come back to the eastern kingdom.
They are literally a plague upon every land they touch. The alliance should do everything they can to deny them any land there.

Instead they could take some land in Kalimdor. Like Desolace for example. More fitting anyway. And more secure for them. Or at least move up to the bloodelves into that plagued forrest. Allready looks like they are living there anyway^^

[Alanar]

This is just my two cents, tho. Feel free to bash.

No need to bash, cus I see alot of good ideas here, but personally I am more of a fan of the location of Stratholme. It has a very usefull spot like mentioned before next to their blood elf allies. I am talking about forsaken working together with the argent crusade and the blood elves and take stratholme as their base.

Close to quel'thalas, strong walls and already a city, makes like the perfect place. I do realy like the idea of crusaders getting into stratholme as well just because it is such a rich place of lore for them.

Not a fan of a second undercity tho, I like them to move on and use their Blood elf allies, who helped them back in the day when they were first introduced in the ghostlands.

One thing to notice, which would also be super convenient is the place were we had our death knight intro experience in wrath. That whole place Tyrs hand or something is a full on city behind the mountains that used to be scarlet crusade ground. They even have alot of options for harbors and such. That is also close to quel thalas.

Anyway the main point is that imo EPL offer alot of realy strong options for the forsaken that surpasses Alterac.
I like your thinking about the cold that would help the forsaken, but that was never a problem so I dont count that.

[masterjc]

Night elves were allowed to relocate to Hyjal and conquered Darkshore in a one sided scenario. When will the playable undead get their own scenario for Tirisfal? Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken always and forever. No i don’t want replies from alliance zealots. Stay out of my topic.

Forsaken relocated Silverpine Forest and Hillsbrad Foothills and remain in Sepulcher and Tarren Mills
The End
Worgen have Gilneas back (probably)
Humans have Westfall (but yes, it's still burning, Sentinel Hill turned into Stratholme 2.0)
no scenario is needed for it

Blizz simply does not apply it to game. only lore

[Kyphael]

When do Gilneans get their land back?

[OokOok]

Night elves were allowed to relocate to Hyjal and conquered Darkshore in a one sided scenario. When will the playable undead get their own scenario for Tirisfal? Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken always and forever. No i don’t want replies from alliance zealots. Stay out of my topic.

"their lands"

Which are "their lands" exactly? the forsaken are dead humans, dead people don't have any lands. They were brought back from the dead to serve arthas/lich king, they invaded Strat/Tirisfal/Lordereon/Silverpine. Technically they don't own or are entitled to any lands. NOW with the return of Calia and whatever the fuck is going on with her, she does have rights to those lands. I'm not sure exactly if she's dead...or...some weird ass shit Blizzard is doing. But, unlike sylvannas she does actually have a claim to all that shit. It'd kind of be cool if we see a reformed WPL/EPL, it's a little weird those 2 zones have remained untouched for so long. The lights hope chapel has been there for like 17 years doing jack shit.
So it'd be cool if in a future expansion the undead/forsaken have a campaign mission to retake EPL and Strat and turn it into a new city hub.

[Ardenaso]

Big disagreement here, the Forsaken are their own people (or race?) of undeath, and not all Forsaken are former Lordaeron humans either, there are Forsaken high elves, blood elves, night elves and gnomes.

Also, I disagree with that the Forsaken are the Argent Crusade's own people, Forsaken come from many nations (Stormwind, Dalaran, Gilneas, Gnomeregan, Quel'thalas, Darnassus, Kul Tiras etc) so they would be as much those nation's "people" as they would be the Argent Crusade's people. I mean own people in a way that they're their fellow Lordaeronian countrymen. And since the Stromics control Arathi, the Gilneans hold their lands now and they could drive away the Dalarani Forsaken, and etc., they'd should be welcome in Lordaeron



Except for the fact that the Ghostlands and most of the Eastern Plaguelands are still undeath, troll and who knows what more dangererous creature infested. Yes they are neighbours, but so are the night elves and orcs, and they don't (can't) align with eachother either. The Argent Crusade isn't in bad terms with the Forsaken, even better now that Sylvanas and Nathanos are gone. The trolls should be now being dealt with the Zandalari diplomatically so there can come a time where the Amani can compromise with the Blood Elves. Also I'd wager that the Argent Crusade should be finished with the Eastern Plaguelands other than Stratholme. It can be made so that they're going now on Ghostlands.

Also, if the Argent Crusade would align themselves with the Horde, they're so spread out that the waning Horde forces in the Eastern Kingdoms would be unable to protect the vast majority of Forsaken and Argent lands if/when the Alliance does invade in the Fifth War(tm). I believe that since Liadrin canonically wielded the Ashbringer in Legion and she no longer wears it in BFA, she might have returned it to them and it would be canonically under Maxwell's possesion.



Lordaeron and Quel'thalas have never been "friends", aloof allies at best. Don't mind if I move the goalpost here but I'd say it's friends on a sense where it's retconned that Anasterian sent those priests to Lordaeron (instead of old WC3 lore saying that the Priests and Sorceresses defied his orders to stay in human lands) as "goodwill" to Terenas. Also, the Argent Crusade defending the Blood Elves from the Alliance and help cleansing the Ghostlands could be their amends and their "formal apology" to them since they are like the direct successor of Garithos' New Alliance Remnants.



Stratholme should be the capital of the Argent Crusade, Sunwalker druids should have nothing in common with the Paladins of the Crusade and the Blood Knights of Quel'thalas. Also the Blood Knights have their own bases (or should have) and not have to share with the human-centric/majority Argent Crusade.



Is that still a thing in-Lore? that secret pier under a shield near Stratholme in Vanilla/Classic


Also, on the subject of the Forsaken lands.

Personally I am a fan of the Forsaken claiming Alterac City, rebuilding it as a proper Forsaken City (instead of a derelict human one), building into the mountain underneath it too.

Alterac is centrally located, making the Forsaken able to strike at the Alliance-occupied (reclaimed?) Southshore, Fenris and Shadowfang Keeps.

Alterac is defensible, it is surrounded by (cold) mountains and has roads leading directly to Forsaken-controlled Andorhal (I guess the largest city with the loss of Lordaeron city?), the Sludge Fields, Tarren Mill and Southpoint Gate, the Forsaken might even be able to capture and rebuild Durnholde as a fortress to keep watch over Thoradin's Wall and the road to Aerie Peak ensuring the Alliance can't easily invade over land as they would control all acces points into Hillsbrad Foothills and Western Plaguelands.

Alterac is cold, this would help them maintain their decaying bodies.

Alterac is abandoned, the Forsaken could easily rebuild it as a proper Forsaken city (using the structures seen in WotLK) OR they could build it in a way that each Forsaken nationality would have their own "district", ei Kul Tiran buildings for Kul Tiran Forsaken, Gnomish buildings for gnomish Forsaken, Thalassian buildings for Thalassian Forsaken etc.

They could expand downwards, increasing the size of their city and/or making a second Undercity.

They are close to the Frostwolf Clan, we know that the Desolate Council was a pretty oke group, which shows that without Sylvanas' influence the Forsaken actually are closer to living humans than we thought, so if Voss and Calia can restore that part of the Forsaken the Frostwolves wouldn't abandon their closest allies as easily anymore.

In bold.

Also, Alteraci Human Allied Race for the Horde.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing to notice, which would also be super convenient is the place were we had our death knight intro experience in wrath. That whole place Tyrs hand or something is a full on city behind the mountains that used to be scarlet crusade ground. They even have alot of options for harbors and such. That is also close to quel thalas.

The Argent Crusade canonically holds Tyr's Hand since Cataclysm. Havenshire and New Avalon would be nice settlements for Forsaken refugees and more Mag'har and Vulpera looking for homes

[Soimu]

I mean 16 years it has been.. of wow and they were always forsaken lands. I feel like that claim has lost its meaning some time ago. Forsaken are dead humans right? Arent most of them just people who already lived there?

But I would say to horde players.. let it rest and move on. Undercity is not even a great refuge nowadays.

They lost that right when they died. The survivors from the third war have a claim to it now! )

[Flurryfang]

Ain't the entire point of Sylvanas destroying Lordearon, that the Forsaken are supposed to be a dying, exiled race? Sylvanases deal with the Val'kyrs is over, so what is left for the Forsaken to look forward to and why would they need a homeland again? O.o

I think it would be interesting, if they ended up as the Gilnean and that the Gilnean took back Gilneas now that the Forsaken are gone. Its like a switch-a-roo.

Atleast untill we have a new death calamity which creates a lot of new corpses, the Forsaken are really at their limit.

[Alanar]

In bold.

Also, Alteraci Human Allied Race for the Horde.

- - - Updated - - -



The Argent Crusade canonically holds Tyr's Hand since Cataclysm. Havenshire and New Avalon would be nice settlements for Forsaken refugees and more Mag'har and Vulpera looking for homes

Didnt know that since its empty, no npcs I believe.

- - - Updated - - -

They lost that right when they died. The survivors from the third war have a claim to it now! )

They died, but are not dead, but forsaken. The ground and undercity is broken and plagued so.. I dont see any one claiming it any time soon tho.

Lorderearon doesnt realy seem like a very smart or tactical place at this point, I wouldnt care if alliance tried tho.

[Martymark]

Forsaken will never get their land back because they are the badguys, who are supposed to hate themselves, and possibly cancel their accounts.

(per Blizz's story in BFA)

I know I did!

[Shadowtwili]

I still prefer Stratholme, but i like this take too.
Stratholme does have that little bit of extra background that makes it suitable; it's where Arthas' descent began after all, and a very neat city in its own right.

While I get where people are coming from, I personally feel that Stratholme is really unsuited for the Forsaken for two main reasons.

1) It's where Arthas descend began, why would they want to live in the city that was the start of their cursed existence.
2) It's the location of the Bastion of the Silver Hand, a holy site to the Argent Crusade, Scarlet Crusade, Brotherhood of the Light, Knights of the Silver Hand (both neutral and Alliance versions) and even to a lesser extent the Blood Knights.
3) The Argent Crusade has already made clear in (cataclysm-era) quests that they are planning to rebuild Stratholme into their capital city for their new Light-blessed nation.

And the issue with Alterac is that it is within striking range from at least two Alliance Strongholds, namely Stromgarde in the reclaimed Arathi highlands and Aerie Peak in particular, as its altitudes would favor the aerial superiority the dwarves could provide. Third would be the presumably reclaimed kingdom of Gilneas, which too is not too far away.

Well, if the Forsaken capture and rebuild Durnholde Keep, they could cut off ground forces from both Kingdom of Stromgarde and Aerie Peak, Thoradin's wall has stairs on the Forsaken side too, so they could (more easily) defend it than Stromgarde could invade.

Forsaken batriders are more then a match for the Wildhammer Gryphon Riders, imho

The Kingdom of Gilneas (as per Exploring Azeroth: Eastern Kingdoms) is still not reclaimed and lays abandoned. But even if it isn't reclaimed the Forsaken still need to fortify both Southpoint Gate and the Sludge Fields into better defensible positions because the Alliance has captured (again as per Exploring Azeroth: Eastern Kingdoms) Fenris and Shadowfang Keeps.

And last but not least: Alterac is currently in the hands of the Syndicate and ogres i believe, to capture it would be no easy feat (then again that might just make it all the more epic if they make a proper event out of it).

This, really. Also don't make it suck like Operation: Gnomeregan (I still cry myself to sleep over it, oke?)

Also it must be noted that the Forsaken are not the best engineers, the Undercity was convenient due to the sewers and dungeons, Alterac does not have such a ready built "undercity" currently, if it ever had one.

Maybe they could recruit the dwarven ghosts of Dun Garok (raise their bodies too, so we could have proper Forsaken dwarves too, instead of only humans, elves and gnomes.

No need to bash, cus I see alot of good ideas here, but personally I am more of a fan of the location of Stratholme.

Thank you, I really like the Stratholme for the Forsaken idea too (and I would ofcourse easily accept it if Blizzard does decide to give Stratholme to the Forsaken), there's just a few points I explained above on why I think it wouldn't work either.

It has a very usefull spot like mentioned before next to their blood elf allies. I am talking about forsaken working together with the argent crusade and the blood elves and take stratholme as their base.

Close to quel'thalas, strong walls and already a city, makes like the perfect place. I do realy like the idea of crusaders getting into stratholme as well just because it is such a rich place of lore for them.

They're both really good ideas, imho. But I dislike the Argent Crusade working with the Forsaken and Blood elves in such a way, it would push them into the Horde basicly and I like such a large neutral (paladin) organisation. They're basicly a Crusader state these days.

Not a fan of a second undercity tho, I like them to move on and use their Blood elf allies, who helped them back in the day when they were first introduced in the ghostlands.

Neither am I, but according to the BFA wartable the Forsaken where retreating to Alterac City and building a second Undercity there if I remember correctly.

One thing to notice, which would also be super convenient is the place were we had our death knight intro experience in wrath. That whole place Tyrs hand or something is a full on city behind the mountains that used to be scarlet crusade ground. They even have alot of options for harbors and such. That is also close to quel thalas.

That one could work too? I'm just, it might sound silly but in my eyes the Argent Crusade is the defacto ruler (nation) in possession of the entire Eastern Plaguelands. No Horde or Alliance have a presence there. So yeah, its abit eh to me. Maybe I'm just too much a sucker for Alterac for the Forsaken?

Anyway the main point is that imo EPL offer alot of realy strong options for the forsaken that surpasses Alterac.

It does, the problem is just that it's also the zone with the largest Argent Crusade presence, the Paladin Order hall and a levelling zone.

I like your thinking about the cold that would help the forsaken, but that was never a problem so I dont count that.

If I remember correctly, in the most recent book, it was stated by Lillian Voss that many of the Forsaken refugees living in Orgrimmar are suffering from the heat as it is not good for their bodies (since Forsaken can not feel actual heat).

Also, Alteraci Human Allied Race for the Horde.

I would like that, but Blizzard will never do that. Unless the Alliance gets (Lightbound) orcs...

The Argent Crusade canonically holds Tyr's Hand since Cataclysm. Havenshire and New Avalon would be nice settlements for Forsaken refugees and more Mag'har and Vulpera looking for homes

Which is why I think the Argent Crusade would expand into Havenshore and New Avalon and not the Forsaken. THe Cruade holds the only entrance to those two areas.

Also, the mag'har live quite comfortable with the other orcs in Orgrimmar and the vulpera have homes in (now mostly safe) Vol'dun, or if they need to move Zuldazar, which is really close by.

I mean own people in a way that they're their fellow Lordaeronian countrymen. And since the Stromics control Arathi, the Gilneans hold their lands now and they could drive away the Dalarani Forsaken, and etc., they'd should be welcome in Lordaeron

Ah, but the Argent Crusaders aren't all from Lordaeron either. They're humans (paladin or otherwise) from many nations and races. Hence why there are blood elves, high elves, night elves, gnomes, dwarves, draenei, orcs and many more races that are members of the Argent Crusade. It's just a fact of (Warcraft) live that organisations and nations such as the Argent Crusade, Cenarion Circle and Forsaken are multicultural by nature of how their groups are build up from the ground.

The Argent Crusade isn't in bad terms with the Forsaken, even better now that Sylvanas and Nathanos are gone. The trolls should be now being dealt with the Zandalari diplomatically so there can come a time where the Amani can compromise with the Blood Elves. Also I'd wager that the Argent Crusade should be finished with the Eastern Plaguelands other than Stratholme. It can be made so that they're going now on Ghostlands.

The Argent Crusade isn't on bad terms with the night elves and Alliance either. They would be insane to risk those relations just to give the Forsaken a new city. Also remember that the current leader of the Alliance is a (quite zealous) paladin from Lordaeron that lived in Stratholme at one point.

The Zandalari aren't the overlords of the trolls either, so there's not a big chance the forest trolls would accept peace (no matter how good for the forest trolls), even in Zandalar the forest trolls insult the Horde and are hostile mobs.

Hah, the Argent Crusade will be done with the EPL when Blizzard says they're done, sadly. So that'll take another decade or two, at the least.

I believe that since Liadrin canonically wielded the Ashbringer in Legion and she no longer wears it in BFA, she might have returned it to them and it would be canonically under Maxwell's possesion.

Which is even more reason for the Alliance to attack the Crusade in a potentional Fifth War scenario if the Crusaders are getting so buddy buddy with the Horde. Also no idea what this had to do with my point! (Also still think they did our boy Tirion Fordring a dirty, would've been great if he'd have met Turalyon, one of his original brothers).

Don't mind if I move the goalpost here but I'd say it's friends on a sense where it's retconned that Anasterian sent those priests to Lordaeron (instead of old WC3 lore saying that the Priests and Sorceresses defied his orders to stay in human lands) as "goodwill" to Terenas. Also, the Argent Crusade defending the Blood Elves from the Alliance and help cleansing the Ghostlands could be their amends and their "formal apology" to them since they are like the direct successor of Garithos' New Alliance Remnants.

Wait, Anasterian send the priests these days? Damn, I don't really like that new part of lore.

And I do not think the Argent Crusade (or the Grand Alliance) should formally apologise or "make amends" for what Garithos did. That'd be like saying Quel'thalas should apologise or "make amends" for everything Sylvanas did even after she was risen.

Garithos was at most a rogue military leader of (the Alliance of) Lordaeron's defunct nobility/military and at worst the most succesful warlord in the area.

that secret pier under a shield near Stratholme in Vanilla/Classic

They're never going to use that, are they? >.>'

(sorry for long post D

[Ardenaso]

I would like that, but Blizzard will never do that. Unless the Alliance gets (Lightbound) orcs...

I was also once for Lightbound orcs but the Alliance already got the Horde's most popular race but the Nightborne can't be Highborne; so the Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return

[omeomorfismo]

"their lands"

Which are "their lands" exactly? the forsaken are dead humans, dead people don't have any lands. They were brought back from the dead to serve arthas/lich king, they invaded Strat/Tirisfal/Lordereon/Silverpine. Technically they don't own or are entitled to any lands. NOW with the return of Calia and whatever the fuck is going on with her, she does have rights to those lands. I'm not sure exactly if she's dead...or...some weird ass shit Blizzard is doing. But, unlike sylvannas she does actually have a claim to all that shit. It'd kind of be cool if we see a reformed WPL/EPL, it's a little weird those 2 zones have remained untouched for so long. The lights hope chapel has been there for like 17 years doing jack shit.
So it'd be cool if in a future expansion the undead/forsaken have a campaign mission to retake EPL and Strat and turn it into a new city hub.

the plaguelands that they conquered. you know, like every sentient race own every single land both in azeroth and in real life. someone conquered a zone and then can force a law (in this case property) in that zone...
even because if we go with this wrong reasoning the plaguelands still would belong to kel'thuzad (or nobody, considering that calia cant be the heir being a woman)....

[Alanar]

When do Gilneans get their land back?

Yea, out of all zones and looking at that capitol its a god damn shame and it would be great to see that beautiful city flourish. The whole theme there and the lighthouses I mean.. its great it realy is.

Worgen deserve it more at this point to be fair.

Offtopic, but I remember blizz talking about a bg that would be IN the city of gilneas instead of what we got. That would have been such a fun experience. Imagine fighting through the streets, corridors or at the stairs of the church.