Did Greymane cause Shadowlands?

[Hekazi]

Shower thought,
did Genn force Sylvanas to make a deal with the Jailer after he sabotaged her attempt to gain immortality from Eyir by subjugating her and her Val'kyr?
If the last time she had seen the Jailer and seen his offering, was when she died, that means she tried to avoid this path no? But eventually she had to take it because there was nothing left.

[MrLachyG]

Shower thought,
did Genn force Sylvanas to make a deal with the Jailer after he sabotaged her attempt to gain immortality from Eyir by subjugating her and her Val'kyr?
If the last time she had seen the Jailer and seen his offering, was when she died, that means she tried to avoid this path no? But eventually she had to take it because there was nothing left.

no, Sylvanas has been working with the Jailer since the end of Wrath. Jailer needed souls to go to the Maw to power himself up; used his ally Mueh'zala to convince a dying Vol'jin to make Sylvanas Warchief so that she would start conflicts which would give him thousands of souls

[Raugnaut]

thousands of souls

TBH the souls that the Jailer acquired from Azeroth was likely little more then a single droplet in an ocean - Keep in mind that ever since Denathrius sapped the Arbiter, ALL souls have been going to the Maw - And as there are "countless worlds", this means that the Jailer is likely getting hundreds of millions of souls each day.

WoW writing is even worse then the DC-Marvel universe writing these days.

[MrLachyG]

TBH the souls that the Jailer acquired from Azeroth was likely little more then a single droplet in an ocean - Keep in mind that ever since Denathrius sapped the Arbiter, ALL souls have been going to the Maw - And as there are "countless worlds", this means that the Jailer is likely getting hundreds of millions of souls each day.

WoW writing is even worse then the DC-Marvel universe writing these days.

ah yes you are correct... however why do you think everyone is so interested in Azeroth? The Burning Legion went to great efforts to find it despite being on a rampage that would've inevitably claimed the world anyway. and now the Jailer is interested in Azeroth as well. maybe there is a reason why mortal beings from Azeroth can kill gods, demons, titans... because we're empowered by the world soul of the Titan maybe? so wouldn't the souls be empowered as well?

also, we know Sylvanas is working with the Jailer but that doesn't mean she's the only one working with him.

[Varodoc]

Is this the 2021 version of "Greymane will 100% set fire to Teldrassil to keep the Horde away from it!!!!!!"

My advice is to not think about WoW the next time you shower.

[Lochton]

Shower thought,
did Genn force Sylvanas to make a deal with the Jailer after he sabotaged her attempt to gain immortality from Eyir by subjugating her and her Val'kyr?
If the last time she had seen the Jailer and seen his offering, was when she died, that means she tried to avoid this path no? But eventually she had to take it because there was nothing left.

She already allied at the end of Wrath.

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TBH the souls that the Jailer acquired from Azeroth was likely little more then a single droplet in an ocean - Keep in mind that ever since Denathrius sapped the Arbiter, ALL souls have been going to the Maw - And as there are "countless worlds", this means that the Jailer is likely getting hundreds of millions of souls each day.

WoW writing is even worse then the DC-Marvel universe writing these days.

Well, was it confirmed that it was the Sire who did it?

[Restors]

because we're empowered by the world soul of the Titan maybe? so wouldn't the souls be empowered as well?

I really hope you are wrong!! That sounds awefully alot like a Nephalem from Diablo Universe. That every Azerothian has an more empowered soul than any other living being in entire galaxy. But again, wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard copied ideas from their own video game.

[Raugnaut]

She already allied at the end of Wrath.

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Well, was it confirmed that it was the Sire who did it?

Yes, it's been confirmed in-game that it was the Sire that did it - It was first implied during the initial questline (Red colored anima attack from Ravendreth's direction) and then later confirmed while questing in Ravendreth, and finally confirmed again as part of the Venthyr campaign - Sire Denathrius caused the Anima drought.

[Wangming]

Well, was it confirmed that it was the Sire who did it?

No in fact it wasn't. We also don't know when it happened, or when Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination was made. We will also likely never know thanks to "time flowing differently in the Shadowlands"

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, it's been confirmed in-game that it was the Sire that did it - It was first implied during the initial questline (Red colored anima attack from Ravendreth's direction) and then later confirmed while questing in Ravendreth, and finally confirmed again as part of the Venthyr campaign - Sire Denathrius caused the Anima drought.

Oh. Was it explicitly said that way, or did he cause the anima draught by working with those who caused the anime draught (The Jailer and the Mawsworn)

[MrLachyG]

Yes, it's been confirmed in-game that it was the Sire that did it - It was first implied during the initial questline (Red colored anima attack from Ravendreth's direction) and then later confirmed while questing in Ravendreth, and finally confirmed again as part of the Venthyr campaign - Sire Denathrius caused the Anima drought.

which quest did we find that out? I don't remember that at all and I've done the full questline. he definitely caused the anima drought in Revendreth, no argument there but it's not yet confirmed that Denathrius attacked the Arbiter

[RobertMugabe]

Shower thought,
did Genn force Sylvanas to make a deal with the Jailer after he sabotaged her attempt to gain immortality from Eyir by subjugating her and her Val'kyr?
If the last time she had seen the Jailer and seen his offering, was when she died, that means she tried to avoid this path no? But eventually she had to take it because there was nothing left.

Looks like Sylvanas has been working with the Jailer since she committed suicide at the end of wrath.

[Raugnaut]

which quest did we find that out? I don't remember that at all and I've done the full questline. he definitely caused the anima drought in Revendreth, no argument there but it's not yet confirmed that Denathrius attacked the Arbiter

I would need to go through again and play the campaign to find the exact questline in which he's stated to be the one to cause the drought, using the words "Not just Ravendreth but throughout all of the Shadowlands". I think it was shortly after you confront Denathrius with Renethal the first time?

It also states as much on the Wowpedia page for Denathrius.

[Lawnmower]

Because Azeroth houses the WoW-equivalent of the Anti-Life equation.

[OokOok]

ah yes you are correct... however why do you think everyone is so interested in Azeroth? The Burning Legion went to great efforts to find it despite being on a rampage that would've inevitably claimed the world anyway. and now the Jailer is interested in Azeroth as well. maybe there is a reason why mortal beings from Azeroth can kill gods, demons, titans... because we're empowered by the world soul of the Titan maybe? so wouldn't the souls be empowered as well?

also, we know Sylvanas is working with the Jailer but that doesn't mean she's the only one working with him.

It's clearly stated the BL wants Azeroth to destroy it, not claim it because Sargeras found out our world soul is the strongest world soul they've ever found.
We've also NEVER killed gods? The old gods were imprisoned and in a drastic weakened state when we defeated them but Blizzard said we never "killed" them, even recent they said N'zoth wasn't killed.
We didn't even get empowered by the world soul until BFA, so that logic still wouldn't work.

[Makabreska]

Yes. He also did Teldrassil and pushed Hogger to start his reign of terror in Elvynn Forest.

[MrLachyG]

I would need to go through again and play the campaign to find the exact questline in which he's stated to be the one to cause the drought, using the words "Not just Ravendreth but throughout all of the Shadowlands". I think it was shortly after you confront Denathrius with Renethal the first time?

It also states as much on the Wowpedia page for Denathrius.

again, not arguing that he caused the anima drought. that is confirmed fact. however there is nothing to confirm that he is the one who attacked the Arbiter (and this includes the Wowpedia page which has nothing about the attack)

[Wangming]

I would need to go through again and play the campaign to find the exact questline in which he's stated to be the one to cause the drought, using the words "Not just Ravendreth but throughout all of the Shadowlands". I think it was shortly after you confront Denathrius with Renethal the first time?

It also states as much on the Wowpedia page for Denathrius.

Well the Page for the Arbiter still calls it an unknown calamity.

[MrLachyG]

It's clearly stated the BL wants Azeroth to destroy it, not claim it because Sargeras found out our world soul is the strongest world soul they've ever found.
We've also NEVER killed gods? The old gods were imprisoned and in a drastic weakened state when we defeated them but Blizzard said we never "killed" them, even recent they said N'zoth wasn't killed.
We didn't even get empowered by the world soul until BFA, so that logic still wouldn't work.

killed/defeated. even in their weakened state the old gods were still hugely above us in power, yet we managed to defeat them. As for the world soul not empowering us; yes the HoA empowered us directly but I am talking about making the mortals who inhabit Azeroth to be more powerful than mortals who inhabit other worlds because the world soul empowers the planet; the earth, the sea, life itself.

[Aresk]

The Jailer's plot included getting Sylvanas appointed Warchief, which happened before the events of Stormheim. It seems clear that she was on this path before Genn did anything with the lantern, and even if she wasn't, stopping one ploy for someone doesn't force them to do another specific course of action. He wasn't exerting any influence over what she did after he left the room with Eyir.

[Wangming]

again, not arguing that he caused the anima drought. that is confirmed fact. however there is nothing to confirm that he is the one who attacked the Arbiter (and this includes the Wowpedia page which has nothing about the attack)

Not trying to argue against myself, but isn't that the same thing? I mean there is an anime drought because the Arbiter was attacked and ever since, every soul goes into the Maw. Or am I misunderstanding something?