Survival revamp inevitable?

[schwank05]

The specc is insanely fun right now. If they can keep it that way, no reason to change it. 4p necessary tho.

I was doing phenomenal DPS pre 4 set as well, but it is even higher now.

[Makaloff]

That’s very obvious. It’s a really fun spec to play (and the most interesting hunter rotation) that now also deal crazy good damage. Haters gonna hate.

people hate it beacuse their favorite specc got taken away and executed to be turned into a flopped meele version who took 6 years to see more than 5% representation played, and that is thanks to borrowed power being bonkers.

Not to mentioned thanks to said rework, they shoved RSV talents into MM, messing up MMs talent tree aswell. Its not about if the specc is fun or not, its about what works for the class and not. MSV have been a specc that went from being a respected and very played specc to a clown specc that was based on a meme from vanilla.

Before you ask, yes i have played it, it is fun too but in the end i didnt come to the hunter class to play meele and nor did 95% of the other hunters too. Blizzard knew making survival meele was gonna be a failure and yet they went with it and here we are. Meele have nothing to do in the hunter class, not to mention any other meele can do their job better.

However, if blizzard is smart, they introduce RSV (can call it something else than survival) as a 4th specc so both sides can be happy instead of people having to be shoehorned into MM or BM. also worth to point out, even with how brokenly op surv is atm, it still sees way less representation than BM, and BM is absolute trash tier atm. So even when blizzard bribes people with borrowed power, the specc remains unpopular. The only solutions to satisfy people is either RSV as a 4th specc (which is the best option), or the more blunt approach and rework current surv back into ranged.

[Makaloff]

i think its time to throw in the rag, even with the new expansion blizzard seem hellbent on keeping the failure that survival is as meele, not even with revamped talent tree you will be able to play RSV. Ive waited 6 years now for a change and it seems blizzard stick to their guns on the horrible take they have on hunter. its a shame beacuse i really love the hunter class and it pains me to see the whole class in shambles and doubling down on absolute stupid ideas like meele survival.

Before someone mentions "you still have BM and MM", no im not gonna roll those speccs, BM is absolute in the trashbin and boring to play, MM is way to slow and clunky. if RSV was still there i would be playing it but now after 6 years of waiting for survival to make a come back ill reroll to another class that doesnt have smooth brains to devs and who actually know how the class works instead of thinking a meme build from vanilla was a good idea to ruin a specc on.

[Magenugget]

The new talent system leaves me with a trace of hope that they might take a look at Hunters again. Because the hybrid aspect of the talent system doesn't fit Hunters at all since Legion made the specs mutually exclusive in a way (Ranged+pet, Ranged+nopet, Melee+pet).

A couple of ideas how to bring Hunters closer to a pre-Legion state without a complete rework.

1) SV hunters can still use ranged abilities like Flayed Shot, Kill Shot and Serpent Sting by pulling out the crossbow. They brought back Arcane Shot in Shadowlands...even for SV which seems completely off at the moment. In Dragonflight they'll introduce the first mid range spec. Stay with me here: give SV Arcane Shot as a baseline spender to do 80% of DPS at a medium range at all times.
You will still want to be in melee whenever you can, the fantasy of a melee hunter is unharmed.
It gives SV the niche it desperately needs to compete with other melee specs.

2) Replace Kill Command with something that fits the SV theme. Put Flanking Strike on the BM side of the class tree for the people that enjoy the pet fantasy of current SV. Flanking strike is a gap closer combined with a melee attack and BM and MM don't have a melee weapons... or do they? Let BM and MM be able to pull out axes or swords in the same way that SV pulls out a crossbow.
All specs used melee and ranged weapons for so long, in fact Sylvanas still dual-wields swords. I wouldn't mind having a gap closer even as BM or MM, mobility never hurts.

3) Let's talk about the class tree.
Stuff to put on the BM side: A Murder of Crows, Chimaera Shot, Exotic Beasts
Stuff to put on the MM side: Flayed Shot, Explosive Shot, Trailblazer
Stuff to put in the SV side: Serpent Sting, Chakrams, Camouflage
Of course it all needs to be balanced, this is purely from a flavour perspective, trying to have aoe compete with aoe etc.

[Makaloff]

The new talent system leaves me with a trace of hope that they might take a look at Hunters again. Because the hybrid aspect of the talent system doesn't fit Hunters at all since Legion made the specs mutually exclusive in a way (Ranged+pet, Ranged+nopet, Melee+pet).

A couple of ideas how to bring Hunters closer to a pre-Legion state without a complete rework.

1) SV hunters can still use ranged abilities like Flayed Shot, Kill Shot and Serpent Sting by pulling out the crossbow. They brought back Arcane Shot in Shadowlands...even for SV which seems completely off at the moment. In Dragonflight they'll introduce the first mid range spec. Stay with me here: give SV Arcane Shot as a baseline spender to do 80% of DPS at a medium range at all times.
You will still want to be in melee whenever you can, the fantasy of a melee hunter is unharmed.
It gives SV the niche it desperately needs to compete with other melee specs.

2) Replace Kill Command with something that fits the SV theme. Put Flanking Strike on the BM side of the class tree for the people that enjoy the pet fantasy of current SV. Flanking strike is a gap closer combined with a melee attack and BM and MM don't have a melee weapons... or do they? Let BM and MM be able to pull out axes or swords in the same way that SV pulls out a crossbow.
All specs used melee and ranged weapons for so long, in fact Sylvanas still dual-wields swords. I wouldn't mind having a gap closer even as BM or MM, mobility never hurts.

3) Let's talk about the class tree.
Stuff to put on the BM side: A Murder of Crows, Chimaera Shot, Exotic Beasts
Stuff to put on the MM side: Flayed Shot, Explosive Shot, Trailblazer
Stuff to put in the SV side: Serpent Sting, Chakrams, Camouflage
Of course it all needs to be balanced, this is purely from a flavour perspective, trying to have aoe compete with aoe etc.

or just do like in GW2 that if you equipp a ranged weapon you get acess to ranged abilities and if you equipp a meele weapon you get meele abilities. but the thing is that blizzard wont do that beacuse they know that everyone would be playing ranged, and that would be to admit how much they failed with the crapshow that is meele survival.

[Bepples]

or just do like in GW2 that if you equipp a ranged weapon you get acess to ranged abilities and if you equipp a meele weapon you get meele abilities. but the thing is that blizzard wont do that beacuse they know that everyone would be playing ranged, and that would be to admit how much they failed with the crapshow that is meele survival.

Melee SV literally admit this. When you suggest that they should have both a ranged and melee option within SV they say "but everyone would just play ranged!". The lack of self-awareness is unreal.

[Makaloff]

Melee SV literally admit this. When you suggest that they should have both a ranged and melee option within SV they say "but everyone would just play ranged!". The lack of self-awareness is unreal.

yup, its astonishing to be honest. The lack of understanding from blizzard side is what made me starting to play classic wow now (i still play retail but im not playing on my hunter anymore). i just hope some day blizzard could man up, admit their mistake with meele survival and revert it to range. Heck even a 4th specc option would be a blessing (like the munition concept gorak have posted on the forums). but untill then i will stick to playing hunter only in classic (wotlk is gonna be pretty lit).

[Wylyth1992]

I just hope they keep it melee. I like the idea of being a hunter that uses melee weapons instead of ranged weapons. And don't want Unholy Death Knight to be the only option for a Melee pet spec (Ranged has Warlock, Beast Master Hunter, and to a lesser extent Frost Mage).

[roboscorcher]

Survival should be a tanking spec.

Have it play something like D'va in Overwatch, except your pet is the mech (your pet probably shouldn't self-destruct though). Also, you can jump off while your pet soft-tanks for a bit, like Rexxar in HotS. Maybe make it a core mechanic to mount and disengage your pet rotationally.

I'd actually play a hunter if they did this.

[haediff]

Survival should be a tanking spec.

Have it play something like D'va in Overwatch, except your pet is the mech (your pet probably shouldn't self-destruct though). Also, you can jump off while your pet soft-tanks for a bit, like Rexxar in HotS. Maybe make it a core mechanic to mount and disengage your pet rotationally.

I'd actually play a hunter if they did this.

Hunter does not fit the aesthetic of a “tank” at all.

[Eosia]

Survival should be a tanking spec.

Paladin, DK, DH, Warrior, Druid, and Monk all have tanking specs. Don't need another.

[Bepples]

Survival should be a tanking spec.

Have it play something like D'va in Overwatch, except your pet is the mech (your pet probably shouldn't self-destruct though). Also, you can jump off while your pet soft-tanks for a bit, like Rexxar in HotS. Maybe make it a core mechanic to mount and disengage your pet rotationally.

I'd actually play a hunter if they did this.

I'd rather people like you didn't play a Hunter.

[Neverafter]

Survival should be a tanking spec.

Have it play something like D'va in Overwatch, except your pet is the mech (your pet probably shouldn't self-destruct though). Also, you can jump off while your pet soft-tanks for a bit, like Rexxar in HotS. Maybe make it a core mechanic to mount and disengage your pet rotationally.

I'd actually play a hunter if they did this.

Riding the pet would work for some pets, but imagine tanking on a mechanical chicken or any of the flying pets. Even restricting it only to tenacity pets, you still have toads, turtles, dragonhawks, and beetles that don't make much sense as rideable battle mounts.

[Makaloff]

Survival should be a tanking spec.

Have it play something like D'va in Overwatch, except your pet is the mech (your pet probably shouldn't self-destruct though). Also, you can jump off while your pet soft-tanks for a bit, like Rexxar in HotS. Maybe make it a core mechanic to mount and disengage your pet rotationally.

I'd actually play a hunter if they did this.

Hunters fantasy in general dont really fit with having a tank specc. Also turning current surv into a tank specc would just mean you repeat same thing that happened in legion, aka making the people who play survival even more mad. If anything, give shamans tank specc, they had the tools back in vanilla, try to tank anything on a hunter in classic and see how quick you will die. Besides, anything related to pet AI is a bad idea due to that blizzard really not good with pet ai to begin with.

best would be to put a talent into the survival tree to let people choose if they want to go meele or ranged, and like in GW2, having abilites replaced depending what weapon you have. so carve would turn to multishot, raptor strike to cobra shot and muzzle into counter shot. it would take like a afternoon to fix this.

Or just give back RSV as a 4th specc and the hunter class can finally rest from all these years of debate. Sadly the devs who work on hunter dont play the game at all so thats why im currently forced to play Classic to enjoy the wonderful class hunters used to be. Legion is a major cause for the hunter decline in general, not only due to the survival rework but the shoddy work they have done with BM and MM. Current MM is clunky and slow, just painful to play. BM is sitting in the dumpster crying and survival is living on limited time due to double leggy and their ridicously strong 4 set.

[roboscorcher]

Paladin, DK, DH, Warrior, Druid, and Monk all have tanking specs. Don't need another.

Personally I think each class should have some ability to do a non-DPS role. But yeah I understand why dedicated class players would hate another spec overhaul.

I actually really liked the rough idea that was in the fake Dragonflight leak: adding 4 new specs to the game, and assigning them to each armor type. That wasn't exactly what the leak proposed, but it's pretty badass. If they did it right, it would accomplish the goal I mentioned above: every class can do non-dps to some extent.

Plate = Dragon Knight (dps melee/ranged, like FF14 dragoon)
Mail = Tinker (tank)
Leather = Bard (healer/support)
Cloth = Chronomancer (healer)

This setup isn't gonig to happen, but it would definitely give people more options when building parties with friends.

[deenman]

Personally I think each class should have some ability to do a non-DPS role. But yeah I understand why dedicated class players would hate another spec overhaul.

I actually really liked the rough idea that was in the fake Dragonflight leak: adding 4 new specs to the game, and assigning them to each armor type. That wasn't exactly what the leak proposed, but it's pretty badass. If they did it right, it would accomplish the goal I mentioned above: every class can do non-dps to some extent.

Plate = Dragon Knight (dps melee/ranged, like FF14 dragoon)
Mail = Tinker (tank)
Leather = Bard (healer/support)
Cloth = Chronomancer (healer)

This setup isn't gonig to happen, but it would definitely give people more options when building parties with friends.

i dont know why they dont do variables of the same spec,can we not have a world where survival can branch in a tank and a dps spec? not like old feral but 2 different survival specializations

[roboscorcher]

i dont know why they dont do variables of the same spec,can we not have a world where survival can branch in a tank and a dps spec? not like old feral but 2 different survival specializations

I think they did that with DK's in Wrath, but it was a balancing nightmare for them. In Cata, I recall the devs saying "we want to balance 3 specs, not 6". The reintroduction of the talents trees in DF may bring some hybridity back, but the splitting of spec and class talents shows that they're trying to avoid the Wrath DK situation.

[Eosia]

Personally I think each class should have some ability to do a non-DPS role. But yeah I understand why dedicated class players would hate another spec overhaul.

I actually really liked the rough idea that was in the fake Dragonflight leak: adding 4 new specs to the game, and assigning them to each armor type. That wasn't exactly what the leak proposed, but it's pretty badass. If they did it right, it would accomplish the goal I mentioned above: every class can do non-dps to some extent.

Plate = Dragon Knight (dps melee/ranged, like FF14 dragoon)
Mail = Tinker (tank)
Leather = Bard (healer/support)
Cloth = Chronomancer (healer)

This setup isn't gonig to happen, but it would definitely give people more options when building parties with friends.

There's nothing wrong with having 4 classes that are pure DPs and nothing more though. If people want to play multiple specs like that, there's plenty of options, two that can do all three roles.

[Bisque]

I think they did that with DK's in Wrath, but it was a balancing nightmare for them. In Cata, I recall the devs saying "we want to balance 3 specs, not 6". The reintroduction of the talents trees in DF may bring some hybridity back, but the splitting of spec and class talents shows that they're trying to avoid the Wrath DK situation.

Yup I remember those days when all 3 dk specs could tank. You did not have to be a game designer to know that must have been a nightmare to balance and there was no surprise when only blood was made the tanking spec.

[Makaloff]

i dont know why they dont do variables of the same spec,can we not have a world where survival can branch in a tank and a dps spec? not like old feral but 2 different survival specializations

hunter isnt fit for tanking thought and i dare to say that there is better options for tanks out there (like shamans for example). Besides, more tank speccs wont mean more people will play tanks for that matter. let hunters be hunters, we have ranged and we have meele, at most they should allow survival to dual wield but thats it (and add a talent option to go ranged surv if youd like so people can choose if they wanna play meele surv or ranged surv)