Page 11 of 17 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
13
... LastLast
  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "Can you give me a proof that we are weaker in BFA than in the Legion? You constantly assert this and your only argument is that artifacts are stronger than the Heart of Azeroth, but you never give proof of this claim. Maybe you will either give it now or you will never say this nonsense again?"

    We took down the Avatar of Aggramar prior to gaining any type of "titan amp".

    We're succumbing the whispers of the weakest Old God, and only won cause of a Titan weapon, Magni and MOTHER, etc.

    Oh wow...totally weaker here. Not like the first boss of Antorus was literally a world destroy Fel Reaver or anything.

    "LOL what? It was you who jerked off to the Legion, your nickname was literally Argus the Unmaker and in every topic you tried to prove that Argus is the strongest creature in Warcraft because it can destroy the universe. Now when they tell us that the Jailer is Titan ++, and his army is equal to the Legion, you started jerking off at him, but are you sure that I am the one who was a fan of the Titans and the Legion?"

    I'm not jerking off the Jailer. I'm calling him a greater threat, which is true. And Argus was only that powerful cause of his Death Magics. I've explained to you already that his physical power sucks. Don't use me from years ago to justify your current narrative.

    "Ironically, before you laughed at Arthas fans and shouted about how cool the Legion is and that the Scourge is nothing compared to the Legion, but now that we were shown the Jailer, you suddenly decided to start protecting Arthas."

    Funny, cause I already explained why Arthas sucked. Like...4 posts ago. Not that hard.

    "You literally change your mind from case to case and try to present the lore as you personally like it. If the next addon will be about the Void, and they show us the Void Lords and Blizzard say that their armies are cooler than the Legion and the Jailer combined, you will also shout about how cool they are and, together with Varodok, drown this forum in calls to worship the Void and praise Alleria and The Void of the Lords"

    Cause if that's the narrative they write, then that's the narrative I'm gonna say makes 1 force more powerful or greater than the other.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The only way I could see you argue us from Legion being weaker than us from BFA is if you somehow get Xanesh or Azshara above Kil'Jaeden/Archimonde, or the Avatar of Aggramar. Even then, good luck trying to get them at similar levels.
    Well? For some reason, you think that the avatar of Agrammar is stronger than Nzoth or what? The Titan Avatars seem to be at the Titan Keepers level at their prime and it took 9 Keepers to defeat N'zoth. Can you give me a normal proof, and not your fantasies? The weakest Old God is still the Old God. It was said about the arsenal of destruction of worlds and the destruction of worlds is actually not a great feat. Illidan was capable of destroying worlds, was he stronger than N'zoth?

    Yes, because the Jailer is the current big bad Warcraft and therefore you fell in love with him just as you fell in love with the Legion before. I'm just reminding you who really was a fan of the Titans and the Legion.

    Nevertheless, you tried to prove that Arthas is no weaker than Lei Shen and that the revelations from the SL take him (and his weapon and helmet) to a whole new level.

    You don't care about the story, you care about who the main villain is, that's all.

    According to your logic, Kael is stronger than C'tun / Ragnaros / other vanilla bosses, which means we are weaker in BC than in Classic. Sorry, this is not how it works. You need to compare the last bosses (and best of all the last bosses of the last raids) and taking into account all the circumstances.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Where did it say Aggramar was a corrupted avatar? We fight his reborn form, the titan of destruction. I see no mention anywhere of that fight being with an avatar. In fact, the only avatar of Aggramar I see mentioned are the tank players during Stage Two of the Argus fight, which are very different from Aggramar himself.
    Ion confirmed that what we faced was an Avatar, and that the real Aggramar would step on us like an ant.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Where did it say Aggramar was a corrupted avatar? We fight his reborn form, the titan of destruction. I see no mention anywhere of that fight being with an avatar. In fact, the only avatar of Aggramar I see mentioned are the tank players during Stage Two of the Argus fight, which are very different from Aggramar himself.
    https://youtu.be/Ql1dv4elqk4?t=1408


  4. #204
    "According to your logic, Kael is stronger than C'tun / Ragnaros / other vanilla bosses, which means we are weaker in BC than in Classic. Sorry, this is not how it works. You need to compare the last bosses (and best of all the last bosses of the last raids) and taking into account all the circumstances."

    According to my logic, Kael'thas is probably the weakest raid boss we've ever faced.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Was about to link that. Thank you.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "According to your logic, Kael is stronger than C'tun / Ragnaros / other vanilla bosses, which means we are weaker in BC than in Classic. Sorry, this is not how it works. You need to compare the last bosses (and best of all the last bosses of the last raids) and taking into account all the circumstances."

    According to my logic, Kael'thas is probably the weakest raid boss we've ever faced.
    And yet Kael was the boss in BC, a post-vanilla addon. At the same time, mind you, I chose Kael, the last boss of the raid, and not someone from the middle of the raid as you did. Or maybe then High Astromancer Solarian is stronger than C'tun ? Ragnaros? Kel'thuzad? Just because we faced Xanesh after KJ does not mean that we have become weaker.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Ya know, it's also kinda funny, cause regarding Ion talking about this shit with Aggramar, he also straight up states that the Titans we've known about and dealt with throughout WoW (From their cities, to their creations, etc) and seen at the end of Legion are the Pantheon of Order, while here, we're seeing the Pantheon of Death!

    See? He too is making the direct comparison...

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Ya know, it's also kinda funny, cause regarding Ion talking about this shit with Aggramar, he also straight up states that the Titans we've known about and dealt with throughout WoW (From their cities, to their creations, etc) and seen at the end of Legion are the Pantheon of Order, while here, we're seeing the Pantheon of Death!

    See? He too is making the direct comparison...
    As I said, they may have been originally at the Titan level, but have since spent their energies on their covenants.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    And yet Kael was the boss in BC, a post-vanilla addon. At the same time, mind you, I chose Kael, the last boss of the raid, and not someone from the middle of the raid as you did. Or maybe then High Astromancer Solarian is stronger than C'tun ? Ragnaros? Kel'thuzad? Just because we faced Xanesh after KJ does not mean that we have become weaker.
    I mean, I also used Xanesh cause she was personally torturing Azshara, who was the final boss of the raid prior to that, but sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    As I said, they may have been originally at the Titan level, but have since spent their energies on their covenants.
    It's been confirmed that by 9.1, the drought is gone, and the covenants and their leaders are back at full swing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, even then, idk why Denathrius would be weaker to begin with then, since he wasn't affected by the drought at all. Hell, he caused it.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I mean, I also used Xanesh cause she was personally torturing Azshara, who was the final boss of the raid prior to that, but sure.
    So? Are you trying to say that Xanesh is stronger than Azshara or what? We practically killed Azshara, after which Nzoth took her and gave her into the hands of Xanesh. This does not in any way show that Xanesh is stronger. Do I really have to explain such things to you?

    I didn't say a word about the drought of the anima. I said that maybe they put their power into the Covenant (like Morgoth put their power into the world in The Silmarillion) and have become weaker ever since. Their power is not in their bodies and souls, but in their covenants and their covenants work because of this, and therefore death causes the destruction of the covenant.t in any way show that Xanesh is stronger. Do I really have to explain such things to you?
    Last edited by darkoms; 2021-03-24 at 09:19 PM.

  10. #210
    Also, I've said before that the Winter Queen and co probably became more akin to the Keepers in power as soon as the drought began. I haven't said that in this thread, but I have said it before.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    So? Are you trying to say that Xanesh is stronger than Azshara or what? We practically killed Azshara, after which Nzoth took her and gave her into the hands of Xanesh. This does not in any way show that Xanesh is stronger. Do I really have to explain such things to you?
    I mean, probably? Azshara couldn't really do anything against Xanesh's magics. Also, WE never did anything alone. The Titan artifacts weakened her while she was fighting us, which luckily gave us and the faction leaders that were with us at the time a fighting chance.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Also, I've said before that the Winter Queen and co probably became more akin to the Keepers in power as soon as the drought began. I haven't said that in this thread, but I have said it before.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I mean, probably? Azshara couldn't really do anything against Xanesh's magics. Also, WE never did anything alone. The Titan artifacts weakened her while she was fighting us, which luckily gave us and the faction leaders that were with us at the time a fighting chance.
    As I said, I was not talking about the drought of the anima.

    Oh yes, after all, after you were just nearly killed, and then you were immediately dragged away by the Old God, you immediately regain all your power and are able to destroy whoever you want. Please don't ever say such nonsense again, I felt dumber after just reading this argument.
    That's right, we never do anything without someone's help because we just don't have enough strength.

  12. #212
    "Oh yes, after all, after you were just nearly killed, and then you were immediately dragged away by the Old God, you immediately regain all your power and are able to destroy whoever you want. Please don't ever say such nonsense again, I felt dumber after just reading this argument."

    Well, nothing implies Xanesh and her tormenting Azshara just happened like that. Also, who's to say N'Zoth wasn't going to limit her anyway, or at the very least not give his minions the power needed to deal with Azshara personally? You think N'Zoth can't provide his servants that much power? Really?

    "As I said, I was not talking about the drought of the anima."

    Then I have absolutely NO idea where you're getting this "They wasted their shit on their covenants" BS from.

    "That's right, we never do anything without someone's help because we just don't have enough strength."

    Hurray, you finally realized that borrowed power exists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You also forgot the entire point of our argument, BUT HURRAY!!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyway, I'm kinda just done with this argument. The Titan Keeper comparison just comes across as dishonest at this rate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyway, what was the whole Chronicle 3 mistake on again? And why are we somehow talking about Arthas being comparable to Cenarius or some shit, when we already know that's wrong?

    - - - Updated - - -

    (We can talk about Cosmic Pantheons on another thread, if ya want)

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "Oh yes, after all, after you were just nearly killed, and then you were immediately dragged away by the Old God, you immediately regain all your power and are able to destroy whoever you want. Please don't ever say such nonsense again, I felt dumber after just reading this argument."

    Well, nothing implies Xanesh and her tormenting Azshara just happened like that. Also, who's to say N'Zoth wasn't going to limit her anyway, or at the very least not give his minions the power needed to deal with Azshara personally? You think N'Zoth can't provide his servants that much power? Really?

    "As I said, I was not talking about the drought of the anima."

    Then I have absolutely NO idea where you're getting this "They wasted their shit on their covenants" BS from.

    "That's right, we never do anything without someone's help because we just don't have enough strength."

    Hurray, you finally realized that borrowed power exists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You also forgot the entire point of our argument, BUT HURRAY!!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyway, I'm kinda just done with this argument. The Titan Keeper comparison just comes across as dishonest at this rate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyway, what was the whole Chronicle 3 mistake on again? And why are we somehow talking about Arthas being comparable to Cenarius or some shit, when we already know that's wrong?

    - - - Updated - - -

    (We can talk about Cosmic Pantheons on another thread, if ya want)
    So it means that Nzoth specially strengthened Xanesh to be stronger than Azshara? Then your original argument loses its force, doesn't it? And I still don't understand why you even compared them with Archimonde and KJ, how does this show that we were stronger in the Legion than in BFA? You had to compare Azshara (last boss 8.2) and KJ (last boss 7.2) and even so you could not prove that we were stronger in the Legion because although KJ is stronger than Azshara, we also had more powerful allies in the battle against KJ (Illidan, Velen and Khadgar is much more impressive than Jaina, Thalyssra, and Lor'themar.)

    God, I'll say it again. I THINK. I GUESS. My THEORY is that they were originally at the Titan level, but when they created their covenants they put all their power into the covenants and became much weaker. This is the only thing that can justify Blizzard's words that the Eternal Ones are analogous to the Titans in Death, despite the fact that they do not show any great power.

    Yes, can you understand it now? The heroes are getting stronger with every add-on, but we still need help. We defeated Argus through the Titans and defeated Nzoth through the Forge of Ordiantion. I'm still waiting for proof that we are stronger in the Legion than in Bfa.

    The whole point of our dispute is that you do not give proofs.

    Because you enjoy jerking off to the Jailer and you want him to be the most powerful being in the universe? How did you want the same for Argus before? When will Zovaaal the Jailer be your new nickname?

    There was no mistake in Chronicle 3, I don't know why this guy created this thread.

    I do not see the point, it seems the moderators do not care about the fact that the dispute goes the other way. Therongr and I had an argument about Murmur, Fel and so on for 5 (or 10, I don't remember) pages in the topic about Sylvanas.
    Last edited by darkoms; 2021-03-24 at 09:37 PM.

  14. #214
    Nothing made them weaker. No idea why you're trying to make these theories to begin with.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Nothing made them weaker. No idea why you're trying to make these theories to begin with.
    Because that would explain why they are not on the level of the Titans, although they are the Pantheon of Death.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I think that it needs to be emphasized that what is true "now," is only true until the next retcon.

    "Mistakes" would imply a consistent coherent stable storyline...a timeline to follow. We don't have that.
    Uh, what about all of this is inconsistent?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Because that would explain why they are not on the level of the Titans, although they are the Pantheon of Death.
    Or Blizzard's narrative is that the Shadowlands and the powers there are greater than what we've seen in the Physical Universe? I got no clue though. Just my 2 cents.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Uh, what about all of this is inconsistent?
    I hate when people use this argument. When the lore changes (again), we will argue according to the new rules. But as long as we have information that is canonical at the moment, we can argue about it. You shouldn't reject someone's argument because someone thinks they will LIKELY be retconized in the future.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Demons suck in warcraft, big deal.
    Yeah, cause when fighting a LITERAL DEMI-GOD, you're totally going to have a clear fighting chance as a Felguard, ye?

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Uh, what about all of this is inconsistent?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Or Blizzard's narrative is that the Shadowlands and the powers there are greater than what we've seen in the Physical Universe? I got no clue though. Just my 2 cents.
    We constantly see beings from other dimensions in the physical universe. Naaru, Old Gods, Titans and so on. Why does the realm of Death have to be so unique? Again, the Eternal Ones still haven't demonstrated anything on the level of the Titans or even the Old Gods.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I hate when people use this argument. When the lore changes (again), we will argue according to the new rules. But as long as we have information that is canonical at the moment, we can argue about it. You shouldn't reject someone's argument because someone thinks they will LIKELY be retconized in the future.
    I'm arguing against both. There likely won't be another retcon (Cause what the Chronicle says is true in regards to what goes on with reality and Azeroth), and the OP of the whole thread doesn't know what a mistake is.

    Nothing is inconsistent regarding "retcons", and there are no "mistakes". 2 people making weird arguments. Simple.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    We constantly see beings from other dimensions in the physical universe. Naaru, Old Gods, Titans and so on. Why does the realm of Death have to be so unique? Again, the Eternal Ones still haven't demonstrated anything on the level of the Titans or even the Old Gods.
    Cause most of the realms we see outside of maybe the Nether aren't actual Cosmic realms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The only thing I agree with you on is the fact that the Pantheon of Death is unimpressive when actually in game, which is true. The Jailer legit has done nothing, and the Archon is the biggest jobber god I've seen.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •