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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    soulstone is just a cr only benefit for it is you can put it on some 1 at any point
    It's a CR, it's a reason to bring a warlock if you don't have a CR in your group or want a second one.


    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    portal sips not really that great not much use for them
    That's debatable. Not having to use invis pots means you can use dmg pots and your healer can use mana pots


    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    aoe stun haven't seen many if any locks utilising this
    How is that even relevant? Having an aoe stun is a big advantage. If all the warlocks you know don't use it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist


    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    cloth loot trading something that isn't unique to locks so no dice there not a reason to bring them over a mage
    magic dmg still not a reason to take them over a mage
    They are good reasons to bring a WL over a mage if other points from this list apply, like if you need a CR


    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    i give you 2 points for this list
    To be honest I don't care about your points. Everything I listed are valid reasons to invite warlocks.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Ya, meta spec X will clear a key 20 seconds faster than non-meta spec Z, so let's just never bring Z. That is the current reality.

    At least in raids bringing non-meta specs makes sense to some degree since if you brought all of the same classes, people would struggle to get geared.
    Nah, it's not like that at all. Trash prob makes up 2 thirds of the time. If your meta is doubling the non meta which is reasonable to expect then you would think that it would take about 3 mins longer in a 40 min dungeon. For 1 bad dps. Make them all non meta and that's 9 mins. Reason enough not to take the gamble.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  3. #363
    Scarab Lord Wries's Avatar
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    This last week I've created a bunch of listings and guess what.. Whenever we search for a DPS or two, we get literally a hundred applicants within the first minute. I don't care about meta for a lowly +15/16, but your chance of getting invited is very slim to begin with. Start creating groups like the key system intended.

    That said, no it doesn't help that "sometimes you should bring the class over the player", is Ion's STATED game philosophy since BFA. Of course people are going to slot in the best class specific abilities and worship the meta now more than ever. However lets not kid ourselves, if you think you need a specific class to clear +15 you're just not playing very well.
    Last edited by Wries; 2021-03-17 at 01:30 AM.
    Elusy | Cenyx
    I had like.. my PC specs here because I was frequently in the hardware section of the forums.. but I guess a mod got mad for the tiny single-row text-string?

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Nah, it's not like that at all. Trash prob makes up 2 thirds of the time. If your meta is doubling the non meta which is reasonable to expect then you would think that it would take about 3 mins longer in a 40 min dungeon. For 1 bad dps. Make them all non meta and that's 9 mins. Reason enough not to take the gamble.
    What meta specs do double the overall DPS of non-meta specs assuming roughly equal skill/gear level?

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Ask tank to link route or tell him you're not comfortable with 2-3 packs at start, problem solved. Usually, if you fail on first pack you don't really deserve the key, everyone got their cds up
    Thats great and im fucked up for the rest of the week >< Mistakes happen but the penalty is really overwhelming.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by czarek View Post
    Thats great and im fucked up for the rest of the week >< Mistakes happen but the penalty is really overwhelming.
    Yes, once a key is depleted, it is deleted for the rest of the week

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Ok tell me why I should invite you to my key over the following
    Fire mage
    Shadow priest
    DK
    WW monk
    Hunter
    Balance Druid
    Arms warrior
    Havoc DH
    Shaman

    Give me 3 good reasons
    Kyrian Havoc DH - very high aoe burst on practivaly every single trahs pack in dungeon + aoe stun + range intrupt / instanc CC with prison .

    their only downside is low ST dmg and that demon form has 4 minutes CD (should be shorter duration but 2 minutes instead 4 , imo would be much more fun spec to play ) - which should be negated by pride + BL on problematic bosses.

    i rarely see anyone topping me on trash since 99% of tanks in 10-12 bracket take always 1 pack at a time which on fortifide weeks is huge imo .

    but hey lets take that random boomkin who does half my dps . hes meta even if he doesnt know how to play . or fire mage and then take 1 pack at a time - and then wonder why he does crap dps - hes fire - he shoudl do 40-60k bursts - why he doesnt play like mages on MDI .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-03-17 at 09:44 AM.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Gratz View Post
    Yes, thank you for suggesting the super obvious solution that nobody has known about until you posted it.

    The "211" player represents players that are getting left behind by toxic logic just a little bit more each day. Just wait till season 2, the experience difference will be massive for 15's and up.

    For the last time. Everyone knows you can make your own groups. Everyone knows it is easier to game with friends. You are not breaking news or informing anyone of something they have not known.

    Ill do your snarky response for you. "Well i'm sure some people don't know." The people you are talking to in this thread are well aware that you can make your own groups.

    We are talking about PUGGING.

    And no, responding with "yea well im saying pugging sucks make your own group." Not helpful and off topic.
    It is completely relevant and helpful, as making your own group, playing with friends or making yourself more attractive are the only solutions to this self-inflicted problem.

    Your line of thought and the OP's line of thought is the prime example of the mentality of the entitled part of the player base:
    People like you and the OP feel entitled to be invited by other people to other people's groups.
    People like me and many others in this thread do not want to play with people that feel entitled to play with others.
    People like me are able to find groups with like-minded people or make our own groups and progress through the content.

    This non-problem is not a "community problem" or a "game problem" it is 100% a self-inflicted problem by the entitled part of the player base and can only be solved by the entitled players themselves.

    So to sum up the OP has 4 options:
    1. Make his own group
    2. Find/make some in-game friends. Maybe join a M+-community
    3. Make himself more attractive to the groups he applies to

    The 3 options above requires the OP to recognize this as a "me-problem".

    4. Keep whining here about the "toxic gate-keepers" with all the other entitled players

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    Kyrian Havoc DH - very high aoe burst on practivaly every single trahs pack in dungeon + aoe stun + range intrupt / instanc CC with prison .

    their only downside is low ST dmg and that demon form has 4 minutes CD (should be shorter duration but 2 minutes instead 4 , imo would be much more fun spec to play ) - which should be negated by pride + BL on problematic bosses.

    i rarely see anyone topping me on trash since 99% of tanks in 10-12 bracket take always 1 pack at a time which on fortifide weeks is huge imo .

    but hey lets take that random boomkin who does half my dps . hes meta even if he doesnt know how to play . or fire mage and then take 1 pack at a time - and then wonder why he does crap dps - hes fire - he shoudl do 40-60k bursts - why he doesnt play like mages on MDI .
    So the thing is that I'm honestly picking based on IO if I list a 15 key right now I will likely have multiple people over 2k applying to it because they want specific gear pieces to upgrade also low ST damage is a huge huge downside.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    Kyrian Havoc DH - very high aoe burst on practivaly every single trahs pack in dungeon + aoe stun + range intrupt / instanc CC with prison .

    their only downside is low ST dmg and that demon form has 4 minutes CD (should be shorter duration but 2 minutes instead 4 , imo would be much more fun spec to play ) - which should be negated by pride + BL on problematic bosses.

    i rarely see anyone topping me on trash since 99% of tanks in 10-12 bracket take always 1 pack at a time which on fortifide weeks is huge imo .

    but hey lets take that random boomkin who does half my dps . hes meta even if he doesnt know how to play . or fire mage and then take 1 pack at a time - and then wonder why he does crap dps - hes fire - he shoudl do 40-60k bursts - why he doesnt play like mages on MDI .
    It's not that I don't believe you, but the average fire mage just does more damage than the average havoc DH. How are pugs supposed to know person A can play their class better than person B? Do you think ALL havoc DHs are better than ALL fire mages in the same ilvl/rio bracket? If no, how are people supposed to know that YOU are the one DH that is different from all the others? Everyone should just magically know that the moonkin they just wanted to invite doesn't know how to play, and they should invite YOU instead?

    I'm genuinely interested in how you think this should work.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    It's not that I don't believe you, but the average fire mage just does more damage than the average havoc DH. How are pugs supposed to know person A can play their class better than person B? Do you think ALL havoc DHs are better than ALL fire mages in the same ilvl/rio bracket? If no, how are people supposed to know that YOU are the one DH that is different from all the others? Everyone should just magically know that the moonkin they just wanted to invite doesn't know how to play, and they should invite YOU instead?

    I'm genuinely interested in how you think this should work.
    The only answer this kind of people have is "I said I'm good so you have to take me". Even if other dps apply with more r.io score, more ilvl, more desirable contribution to the group (cr, lust...), it's the power of "trust me bro, I'm better than the other applicants". You just have to believe them because who would lie on Internet? It's the power of the magical thinking that allows party leaders to gauge precisely the real level of applicants through the sheer potency of guessing.

    My 211 DH does 6k dps overall on a dungeon and I know how to play it, but I wouldn't be entitled to get an invite when some applicants have way better credentials and because I don't expect party leaders to be mind readers.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-03-17 at 12:06 PM.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    It's not that I don't believe you, but the average fire mage just does more damage than the average havoc DH. How are pugs supposed to know person A can play their class better than person B? Do you think ALL havoc DHs are better than ALL fire mages in the same ilvl/rio bracket? If no, how are people supposed to know that YOU are the one DH that is different from all the others? Everyone should just magically know that the moonkin they just wanted to invite doesn't know how to play, and they should invite YOU instead?

    I'm genuinely interested in how you think this should work.
    the obvious answer to this is :

    a) baning raider.io
    b) making their own MMR system and solo que .

    people who want to make elitest premades woudl still be able to - while all scrubs like me would just use solo que.

    sadly it will never happen because blizzard loves to cater only to toxic elitest.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the obvious answer to this is :

    a) baning raider.io
    b) making their own MMR system and solo que .

    people who want to make elitest premades woudl still be able to - while all scrubs like me would just use solo que.

    sadly it will never happen because blizzard loves to cater only to toxic elitest.
    No offense, but that's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A MMR system for m+? And how should the system decide how much MMR to give/lose? Based solely on if you finish the key in time or not? How fast you are? Same MMR for everyone, or more MMR for people with more damage? What about healers and tanks? What about using class utility, interrupts, consumables? How should the system decide which classes/specs to put into a group? Just use the first 3 dps that sign up and mix them with a random tank and healer?

    Clearly you haven't put any thoughts into that idea...


    /edit: You also haven't answered my question. With the system that's in place right now, how would someome know that YOU are better than some mage/moonkin with the same ilvl/score?
    Last edited by neescher; 2021-03-17 at 02:32 PM.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    sadly it will never happen because blizzard loves to cater only to toxic elitest.
    It will never happen because a solo queue won't work for high keys. It brings to much random and boosts and stuff would throw the solo queue into chaos when a key is depleted because random people aren't as good as their rating. Banning raider.io also won't accomplish anything because the community will find a new metric to judge people like the built in rating system you also propose. Raider.io isn't the problem.

    The toxic people will still be toxic. Because raider.io is just a tool and you don't have to be toxic in order to use it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    TIL that it takes ages for a tank. I mean it takes a shitty ilvl 192 warlock almost 2 mins to find a 220 tank for a 10. It.must be my rio score of under 200 which reeled him in.

    You're just using any excuse to be lazy. How about you make your own group and do your daily chores or do some farming or talk to someone else or watch a video. Anything is better than applying and then being rejected. What do you think you have to do? Actually lead the group?
    1st: +10 lol, wow you found a valor farming tank, try it again in 3-4 weeks or on a real key lvl

    2nd. no im not lazy, i got my ksm. try opening a grp on +15 with your warlock and bad rio.....have phun waiting and even longer with a non decent key for that week.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    Kyrian Havoc DH - very high aoe burst on practivaly every single trahs pack in dungeon + aoe stun + range intrupt / instanc CC with prison .

    their only downside is low ST dmg and that demon form has 4 minutes CD (should be shorter duration but 2 minutes instead 4 , imo would be much more fun spec to play ) - which should be negated by pride + BL on problematic bosses.

    i rarely see anyone topping me on trash since 99% of tanks in 10-12 bracket take always 1 pack at a time which on fortifide weeks is huge imo .

    but hey lets take that random boomkin who does half my dps . hes meta even if he doesnt know how to play . or fire mage and then take 1 pack at a time - and then wonder why he does crap dps - hes fire - he shoudl do 40-60k bursts - why he doesnt play like mages on MDI .
    The OP is a lock right?? Also I listed havoc

    If they have similar IO then yeah I’d rather take the classes that perform better

    Make your own group and fill it with SV hunters

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    The OP is a lock right?? Also I listed havoc

    If they have similar IO then yeah I’d rather take the classes that perform better

    Make your own group and fill it with SV hunters
    Ehm, the VERY few sv hunters i have seen in m+ do insane amounts of dmg. Last one i ran with had 7,8k overall dps. They basically have same as havoc, fantastic aoe, mid-low st.

  18. #378
    i'm 206 ilvl, just got invited random to a +14, timed it with 5 min spare.
    Maybe you're not patient enough?

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    The OP is a lock right?? Also I listed havoc

    If they have similar IO then yeah I’d rather take the classes that perform better

    Make your own group and fill it with SV hunters
    the irony when SV hunters do insanely competitive dps in m+ this tier yet they are treated as complete trash solely because they are not ranged

    people are honestly meta slave so bad - and then wonder why they dont finish dungeons in time even when they have boomy/fire mage in group.

    you know why ? because your average boomy/fire mage who has now like 1k .io is most likely trash at his spec. he just rolled meta because everyone wants meta. even if he is very bad at playing it.

    if he was good at it he would be like 1.6-2k by now.

    ill give you example of my DoS 12 run i did and barely timed this week - you know why ? because 218 fire mage in group was doing not only lower dmg then my havoc (yes with expection of bosses but overall he was much lower) but also lower dmg on trash then my lol-spec 209 itlv frost mage . you know why ? solely because tank pulled only 1 pack at a time so he has no chance to do really good dps.

    thats why i laugh at meta-specs in like 10-12 bracket that i run - they are usually sooo bad at their class :/ but they will be always picked first - because meta .

    this is what annoys me in this game and with r.io.
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-03-18 at 07:33 AM.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I get people joining my group all the time. Warlock. Ilvl 192. Just did a 10 where the pugs were 215 plus. Took 2 mins to fill. Would you invite a lock with sub 200 rio, ilvl 192, and not meta? WOULD YOU? That's why I make my own. 3 druids and a hunter this morning.
    Shit, for a +10 I take the first 5 people that apply, no matter itemlevel (as long as its not completely unrealistic) or rio.
    It's not like you have much of a choice as DD and it's also just a +10, so why start picking people by rio?

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