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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Gratz View Post
    Yes, thank you for suggesting the super obvious solution that nobody has known about until you posted it.

    The "211" player represents players that are getting left behind by toxic logic just a little bit more each day. Just wait till season 2, the experience difference will be massive for 15's and up.

    For the last time. Everyone knows you can make your own groups. Everyone knows it is easier to game with friends. You are not breaking news or informing anyone of something they have not known.

    Ill do your snarky response for you. "Well i'm sure some people don't know." The people you are talking to in this thread are well aware that you can make your own groups.

    We are talking about PUGGING.

    And no, responding with "yea well im saying pugging sucks make your own group." Not helpful and off topic.
    It is completely relevant and helpful, as making your own group, playing with friends or making yourself more attractive are the only solutions to this self-inflicted problem.

    Your line of thought and the OP's line of thought is the prime example of the mentality of the entitled part of the player base:
    People like you and the OP feel entitled to be invited by other people to other people's groups.
    People like me and many others in this thread do not want to play with people that feel entitled to play with others.
    People like me are able to find groups with like-minded people or make our own groups and progress through the content.

    This non-problem is not a "community problem" or a "game problem" it is 100% a self-inflicted problem by the entitled part of the player base and can only be solved by the entitled players themselves.

    So to sum up the OP has 4 options:
    1. Make his own group
    2. Find/make some in-game friends. Maybe join a M+-community
    3. Make himself more attractive to the groups he applies to

    The 3 options above requires the OP to recognize this as a "me-problem".

    4. Keep whining here about the "toxic gate-keepers" with all the other entitled players

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    Kyrian Havoc DH - very high aoe burst on practivaly every single trahs pack in dungeon + aoe stun + range intrupt / instanc CC with prison .

    their only downside is low ST dmg and that demon form has 4 minutes CD (should be shorter duration but 2 minutes instead 4 , imo would be much more fun spec to play ) - which should be negated by pride + BL on problematic bosses.

    i rarely see anyone topping me on trash since 99% of tanks in 10-12 bracket take always 1 pack at a time which on fortifide weeks is huge imo .

    but hey lets take that random boomkin who does half my dps . hes meta even if he doesnt know how to play . or fire mage and then take 1 pack at a time - and then wonder why he does crap dps - hes fire - he shoudl do 40-60k bursts - why he doesnt play like mages on MDI .
    So the thing is that I'm honestly picking based on IO if I list a 15 key right now I will likely have multiple people over 2k applying to it because they want specific gear pieces to upgrade also low ST damage is a huge huge downside.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    Kyrian Havoc DH - very high aoe burst on practivaly every single trahs pack in dungeon + aoe stun + range intrupt / instanc CC with prison .

    their only downside is low ST dmg and that demon form has 4 minutes CD (should be shorter duration but 2 minutes instead 4 , imo would be much more fun spec to play ) - which should be negated by pride + BL on problematic bosses.

    i rarely see anyone topping me on trash since 99% of tanks in 10-12 bracket take always 1 pack at a time which on fortifide weeks is huge imo .

    but hey lets take that random boomkin who does half my dps . hes meta even if he doesnt know how to play . or fire mage and then take 1 pack at a time - and then wonder why he does crap dps - hes fire - he shoudl do 40-60k bursts - why he doesnt play like mages on MDI .
    It's not that I don't believe you, but the average fire mage just does more damage than the average havoc DH. How are pugs supposed to know person A can play their class better than person B? Do you think ALL havoc DHs are better than ALL fire mages in the same ilvl/rio bracket? If no, how are people supposed to know that YOU are the one DH that is different from all the others? Everyone should just magically know that the moonkin they just wanted to invite doesn't know how to play, and they should invite YOU instead?

    I'm genuinely interested in how you think this should work.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    It's not that I don't believe you, but the average fire mage just does more damage than the average havoc DH. How are pugs supposed to know person A can play their class better than person B? Do you think ALL havoc DHs are better than ALL fire mages in the same ilvl/rio bracket? If no, how are people supposed to know that YOU are the one DH that is different from all the others? Everyone should just magically know that the moonkin they just wanted to invite doesn't know how to play, and they should invite YOU instead?

    I'm genuinely interested in how you think this should work.
    The only answer this kind of people have is "I said I'm good so you have to take me". Even if other dps apply with more r.io score, more ilvl, more desirable contribution to the group (cr, lust...), it's the power of "trust me bro, I'm better than the other applicants". You just have to believe them because who would lie on Internet? It's the power of the magical thinking that allows party leaders to gauge precisely the real level of applicants through the sheer potency of guessing.

    My 211 DH does 6k dps overall on a dungeon and I know how to play it, but I wouldn't be entitled to get an invite when some applicants have way better credentials and because I don't expect party leaders to be mind readers.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-03-17 at 12:06 PM.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    It's not that I don't believe you, but the average fire mage just does more damage than the average havoc DH. How are pugs supposed to know person A can play their class better than person B? Do you think ALL havoc DHs are better than ALL fire mages in the same ilvl/rio bracket? If no, how are people supposed to know that YOU are the one DH that is different from all the others? Everyone should just magically know that the moonkin they just wanted to invite doesn't know how to play, and they should invite YOU instead?

    I'm genuinely interested in how you think this should work.
    the obvious answer to this is :

    a) baning raider.io
    b) making their own MMR system and solo que .

    people who want to make elitest premades woudl still be able to - while all scrubs like me would just use solo que.

    sadly it will never happen because blizzard loves to cater only to toxic elitest.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the obvious answer to this is :

    a) baning raider.io
    b) making their own MMR system and solo que .

    people who want to make elitest premades woudl still be able to - while all scrubs like me would just use solo que.

    sadly it will never happen because blizzard loves to cater only to toxic elitest.
    No offense, but that's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A MMR system for m+? And how should the system decide how much MMR to give/lose? Based solely on if you finish the key in time or not? How fast you are? Same MMR for everyone, or more MMR for people with more damage? What about healers and tanks? What about using class utility, interrupts, consumables? How should the system decide which classes/specs to put into a group? Just use the first 3 dps that sign up and mix them with a random tank and healer?

    Clearly you haven't put any thoughts into that idea...


    /edit: You also haven't answered my question. With the system that's in place right now, how would someome know that YOU are better than some mage/moonkin with the same ilvl/score?
    Last edited by neescher; 2021-03-17 at 02:32 PM.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    sadly it will never happen because blizzard loves to cater only to toxic elitest.
    It will never happen because a solo queue won't work for high keys. It brings to much random and boosts and stuff would throw the solo queue into chaos when a key is depleted because random people aren't as good as their rating. Banning raider.io also won't accomplish anything because the community will find a new metric to judge people like the built in rating system you also propose. Raider.io isn't the problem.

    The toxic people will still be toxic. Because raider.io is just a tool and you don't have to be toxic in order to use it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    TIL that it takes ages for a tank. I mean it takes a shitty ilvl 192 warlock almost 2 mins to find a 220 tank for a 10. It.must be my rio score of under 200 which reeled him in.

    You're just using any excuse to be lazy. How about you make your own group and do your daily chores or do some farming or talk to someone else or watch a video. Anything is better than applying and then being rejected. What do you think you have to do? Actually lead the group?
    1st: +10 lol, wow you found a valor farming tank, try it again in 3-4 weeks or on a real key lvl

    2nd. no im not lazy, i got my ksm. try opening a grp on +15 with your warlock and bad rio.....have phun waiting and even longer with a non decent key for that week.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    Kyrian Havoc DH - very high aoe burst on practivaly every single trahs pack in dungeon + aoe stun + range intrupt / instanc CC with prison .

    their only downside is low ST dmg and that demon form has 4 minutes CD (should be shorter duration but 2 minutes instead 4 , imo would be much more fun spec to play ) - which should be negated by pride + BL on problematic bosses.

    i rarely see anyone topping me on trash since 99% of tanks in 10-12 bracket take always 1 pack at a time which on fortifide weeks is huge imo .

    but hey lets take that random boomkin who does half my dps . hes meta even if he doesnt know how to play . or fire mage and then take 1 pack at a time - and then wonder why he does crap dps - hes fire - he shoudl do 40-60k bursts - why he doesnt play like mages on MDI .
    The OP is a lock right?? Also I listed havoc

    If they have similar IO then yeah I’d rather take the classes that perform better

    Make your own group and fill it with SV hunters

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    The OP is a lock right?? Also I listed havoc

    If they have similar IO then yeah I’d rather take the classes that perform better

    Make your own group and fill it with SV hunters
    Ehm, the VERY few sv hunters i have seen in m+ do insane amounts of dmg. Last one i ran with had 7,8k overall dps. They basically have same as havoc, fantastic aoe, mid-low st.

  11. #391
    i'm 206 ilvl, just got invited random to a +14, timed it with 5 min spare.
    Maybe you're not patient enough?

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    The OP is a lock right?? Also I listed havoc

    If they have similar IO then yeah I’d rather take the classes that perform better

    Make your own group and fill it with SV hunters
    the irony when SV hunters do insanely competitive dps in m+ this tier yet they are treated as complete trash solely because they are not ranged

    people are honestly meta slave so bad - and then wonder why they dont finish dungeons in time even when they have boomy/fire mage in group.

    you know why ? because your average boomy/fire mage who has now like 1k .io is most likely trash at his spec. he just rolled meta because everyone wants meta. even if he is very bad at playing it.

    if he was good at it he would be like 1.6-2k by now.

    ill give you example of my DoS 12 run i did and barely timed this week - you know why ? because 218 fire mage in group was doing not only lower dmg then my havoc (yes with expection of bosses but overall he was much lower) but also lower dmg on trash then my lol-spec 209 itlv frost mage . you know why ? solely because tank pulled only 1 pack at a time so he has no chance to do really good dps.

    thats why i laugh at meta-specs in like 10-12 bracket that i run - they are usually sooo bad at their class :/ but they will be always picked first - because meta .

    this is what annoys me in this game and with r.io.
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-03-18 at 07:33 AM.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I get people joining my group all the time. Warlock. Ilvl 192. Just did a 10 where the pugs were 215 plus. Took 2 mins to fill. Would you invite a lock with sub 200 rio, ilvl 192, and not meta? WOULD YOU? That's why I make my own. 3 druids and a hunter this morning.
    Shit, for a +10 I take the first 5 people that apply, no matter itemlevel (as long as its not completely unrealistic) or rio.
    It's not like you have much of a choice as DD and it's also just a +10, so why start picking people by rio?

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    ill give you example of my DoS 12 run i did and barely timed this week - you know why ? because 218 fire mage in group was doing not only lower dmg then my havoc (yes with expection of bosses but overall he was much lower) but also lower dmg on trash then my lol-spec 209 itlv frost mage . you know why ? solely because tank pulled only 1 pack at a time so he has no chance to do really good dps.
    So you barely timed it because tank was bad. You can't pull one pack at the time and have a fire mage in the group. Also you just can't pull one pack a the time and expect to "comfortably" time it.

    Frost mages are good on overall damage, very much comparable to fire mages up to moderate size pulls, you can see more and more of them playing on high rio. Only thing is that they are not as good for burst damage which is OP. It all mobs/bosses were same - frost would be best. But some targets need to die way faster than others or otherwise fights become much harder.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the obvious answer to this is :

    a) baning raider.io
    b) making their own MMR system and solo que .

    people who want to make elitest premades woudl still be able to - while all scrubs like me would just use solo que.

    sadly it will never happen because blizzard loves to cater only to toxic elitest.
    In other words, ban r.io and then create r.io? It's also very funny that you think that Blizzard caters to "toxic elitists" when they consistently make decisions that hurt the top end in order to cater to other sections of the playerbase.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitee View Post
    Ehm, the VERY few sv hunters i have seen in m+ do insane amounts of dmg. Last one i ran with had 7,8k overall dps. They basically have same as havoc, fantastic aoe, mid-low st.
    Yeah, people just assume Survival sucks because "hehe melee hunter xd". It's basically always been solid at either ST or AoE, but never both.
    Voidshuffle
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    Laughing Skull-EU

  16. #396
    Thats why you try push your own keys, not as easy as it sound to get a group togheter i know, but thats one option atleast, ive tried for 2.5 months to get a grp togheter, urgh. Playing on a low pop server aswell, but found a guild after all, making a grp as we speak.

    Dont think ive never been this exhausted trying to get 15s done.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeEU View Post
    i'm 206 ilvl, just got invited random to a +14, timed it with 5 min spare.
    Maybe you're not patient enough?
    Get invite to +14 its a huge diffrence to get inviite into +15 :P Depends on class and spec also. Get inv into +14 is way way easyer

  18. #398
    As a healer, as much as I can “love” rio, I’m at a point in which I would really like whatever addon to show, besides the key, the average dps for finished keys (in time or not, does not matter) of the party members.

    A good 70% of my failed runs fail because dps simply don’t do enough dps. I am 100% ok with missing mechanics because I also do sometimes but I’m really tired of having to almost always stick with 1000+ rio ppl that do 3-3,5k dps in 11-13 bracket and blame me and/or the tank all the time.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    As a healer, as much as I can “love” rio, I’m at a point in which I would really like whatever addon to show, besides the key, the average dps for finished keys (in time or not, does not matter) of the party members.

    A good 70% of my failed runs fail because dps simply don’t do enough dps. I am 100% ok with missing mechanics because I also do sometimes but I’m really tired of having to almost always stick with 1000+ rio ppl that do 3-3,5k dps in 11-13 bracket and blame me and/or the tank all the time.
    lack of dps is pretty much never the reason for a failed run, especially on those levels. You can easily time keys with mouth drooling half brain afk players, as long as the route is good and the mechanics are done properly. Sure more dps is always nice because it gives you more leeway for whenever mistakes happen and with less dps fights are longer and more mistakes can happen during longer fights, so it makes it harder, sure. But in the end it's the mistakes that break the key, not the low dps. If the tank dies because he didn't use a defensive for a hard hitting boss ability, then it's not the fault of the dps who could've done more damage and kill the boss before he used that ability.

    Way too many people can only beat dungeons if they can burst a boss down before that boss does any of their abilities because those players never actually learned that boss. All they can do is pew pew.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    lack of dps is pretty much never the reason for a failed run, especially on those levels.
    From my experience there is one dungeon in Shlands in which lack of DPS can fail you a run - De Other Side.
    Couple of times when running it in 12-15 range we barely timed it when noone actually died (it was before adding those 3 extra minutes tho, so nowdays it's probably better)

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