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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    if there is same class healer with better rio and better ilvl, why should anyone take you? It just not reasonable.
    Here's what it looked like less than 45 seconds after I posted my 15 key:


    My first inclination might not be "look at the warlocks" IO regardless, but I mean... theres 3 pages within seconds, with no way to guess who or what is going to be best.

    I think people make their own like +10 key groups or +12, where you see 1 or 2 people pop in and think that people are just actively like No way Jose.. Some of these 15 keys get swarmed...

  2. #522
    If you had a 15 key of your own, I'm sure you could start a group.

    Frankly, M+ is incredibly overrated, repetitive nonsense that no one should be wasting their own valuable free time on in terms of trying unsuccessfully to get into groups. These dungeons are already at zero on the 'fun replay' scale, and we're not even at the first patch yet.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    These dungeons are already at zero on the 'fun replay' scale, and we're not even at the first patch yet.
    It might be possible that some people are still having fun playing the game.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    Here's what it looked like less than 45 seconds after I posted my 15 key:


    My first inclination might not be "look at the warlocks" IO regardless, but I mean... theres 3 pages within seconds, with no way to guess who or what is going to be best.

    I think people make their own like +10 key groups or +12, where you see 1 or 2 people pop in and think that people are just actively like No way Jose.. Some of these 15 keys get swarmed...
    there is a huge difference between having a +10 key and having +15 key.

    every mythic raider spams +15s. no 220+ people have anything to get from +10 .

    in past those people could just spam +10 for TF when met with rejection in +15 - but now ? nothign to gain - so its basicly down to playing "you got declined symulator"

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    there is a huge difference between having a +10 key and having +15 key.

    every mythic raider spams +15s. no 220+ people have anything to get from +10 .

    in past those people could just spam +10 for TF when met with rejection in +15 - but now ? nothign to gain - so its basicly down to playing "you got declined symulator"
    Actually, most mythic raiders either spam 14s for vault, or higher keys to push rio. At least in my experience I get more applications for +14 keys than +15.


    Also, more than enough people apply for +10s, but yes not too many 220+ ilvl. But why would you need those for +10s anyway?


    I disagree with the last part. Never in the history of wow, could dps players "just spam" any 5-man content. Never.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    This.

    Also, even if being a pugger myself for 99% of keys I do, unfortunately I’m all in for the bandwagon “find a proper guild or friends and run with them”.

    Dudes, really, the difference is HUGE. This week I decided to push PF 12 for rio and I had 7-8 runs that all failed more or less miserably. Yesterday evening by chance I managed to do a Mists 14 and a PF 13 with 4 guildies. Mists was my first 14 ever and seemed a 10, PF 13 ended with a +2 bonus and me dpsing at Stradama, I didn’t even think it was possible basing on my pug runs. Every run had 4 deaths, all of which unfortunately unavoidable (bishots or so). I finally understood that, surprise, I’m not half as bad as I thought I was, because people are supposed to do their job instead of standing in the fire waiting for me to be taken up. Apart from mistakes that will always happen sooner or later, I won’t apologize anymore for my “supposedly bad” healing.

    Morale: don’t get too mad if pugged runs fail, it will be almost always the case and there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s not necessarily you that are bad, if the group is there’s nothing you can do about it.
    now it would be interesting to get feedback from your 4 guildies about your performance in said dungeon - and if it "Felt like 10" to them too with you in there.

    no - im not trying to pick on you for no purpose. but there is a chance that their history would be completly different.

    its basicly like people who for some reason are lucky enough to join into semi-good raid run of guild from LFD and are like "lol this is so lol easy other pugs suck"

    what they dont realise is that most likely those 12-15 people in there spend hundreds of hours and hundres of wipes in there , got very strong gear and only this allowed for such "smooth run "

    why i say it - becuase people who take this advice are usually really dissapointed after joining a guild - because few situations can happen :

    a) nobody wants to join their "low keys" - because raiders of that guild only want to do 14/15 even on alts.

    b) those who join them are "casuals of that guild" who lack skills and experience and they have harder time clearing low keys then with lucky good pugs

    c) they are not invited to "good keys" because core of guild only want to do it with core of guild not with "causals/socials " of guild

    and then they keep guild hopping , get frustrated and go back to pugging.

    rememebr that your experience is not experience that everyone else will have.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post

    I disagree with the last part. Never in the history of wow, could dps players "just spam" any 5-man content. Never.
    here i disagree.

    in legion m+ were completly different experience. you have very many very good geared people spammng solely +9 for 3 chesting it and TF farm. allowing much wider playerbase to have good experience in m+ .

    now its non existent anymore.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    a) nobody wants to join their "low keys" - because raiders of that guild only want to do 14/15 even on alts.

    b) those who join them are "casuals of that guild" who lack skills and experience and they have harder time clearing low keys then with lucky good pugs

    c) they are not invited to "good keys" because core of guild only want to do it with core of guild not with "causals/socials " of guild
    Sounds like pretty shitty guilds tbh... I wouldn't want to stay there as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    here i disagree.

    in legion m+ were completly different experience. you have very many very good geared people spammng solely +9 for 3 chesting it and TF farm. allowing much wider playerbase to have good experience in m+ .

    now its non existent anymore.
    Then it depends on your definition of "spamming" dungeons.

    I've only been around for the first 2 raid tiers of Legion, but in those tiers you couldn't "spam" anything as DPS (in pugs), you still had to find tanks and healers which were as rare back then as they are now. "Spamming" for me means, finish a dungeon, and start the next one within ~5 minutes. Unless you had a tank/healer friend to join groups with you, it was still hard to find groups (even lower keys) as dps.

  8. #528
    /cry
    in feral druid

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    If you had a 15 key of your own, I'm sure you could start a group.

    Frankly, M+ is incredibly overrated, repetitive nonsense that no one should be wasting their own valuable free time on in terms of trying unsuccessfully to get into groups. These dungeons are already at zero on the 'fun replay' scale, and we're not even at the first patch yet.
    Almost seems as if you're trying to argue that your opinion is a fact there.
    Hi

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    now it would be interesting to get feedback from your 4 guildies about your performance in said dungeon - and if it "Felt like 10" to them too with you in there.

    no - im not trying to pick on you for no purpose. but there is a chance that their history would be completly different.

    its basicly like people who for some reason are lucky enough to join into semi-good raid run of guild from LFD and are like "lol this is so lol easy other pugs suck"

    what they dont realise is that most likely those 12-15 people in there spend hundreds of hours and hundres of wipes in there , got very strong gear and only this allowed for such "smooth run "

    why i say it - becuase people who take this advice are usually really dissapointed after joining a guild - because few situations can happen :

    a) nobody wants to join their "low keys" - because raiders of that guild only want to do 14/15 even on alts.

    b) those who join them are "casuals of that guild" who lack skills and experience and they have harder time clearing low keys then with lucky good pugs

    c) they are not invited to "good keys" because core of guild only want to do it with core of guild not with "causals/socials " of guild

    and then they keep guild hopping , get frustrated and go back to pugging.

    rememebr that your experience is not experience that everyone else will have.

    - - - Updated - - -



    here i disagree.

    in legion m+ were completly different experience. you have very many very good geared people spammng solely +9 for 3 chesting it and TF farm. allowing much wider playerbase to have good experience in m+ .

    now its non existent anymore.
    Since I pugged all the way to my crappy 1000 rio and I often fail pug runs and I hate being carried, “how did I do?” was my first question after both runs.

    They all said I was absolutely ok. Little mistakes here and there, areas in which I can improve, but nothing that risked to derail both runs.

    I tend to believe them, I’m in the guild since one month or so and they don’t know me, also one of the dps mained a 1800 resto shaman and told me “dude just trust me if you would have been crap I would have told you without any issue”.

    Now, this does not mean I’m a pro by ANY meaning, I still make my mistakes and I always recognize them but when you are astonished by your party taking no damage while doing a lot of it and their answer is “dude that’s how it’s supposed to be” I cannot avoid thinking that almost always the issues for my failed runs lie elsewhere.

    When you disband a SoA 13 at third boss and 30 minutes later you time a SoA 13 with a more or less identical rio group, questions rises.

    Also, not to pretend healer’s role is more difficult or so, but even if group is good, if healer is bad you won’t time the key. You can workaround one crappy dps or a slightly below average tank, supposing he does not constantly mispull, but you can’t do it if the healer is not consistent. You simply need heals and dispels and interrupts, at least at bosses and prides. Even if you overgear the dungeon by a mile, you can’t time a key without an at least decent healer (talking about 10+ keys of course).

    Yesterday I ran a HoA 13, we didn’t time it because wipe at Echelon, in second try we did the last 30% of him in 3 people without any pride or lust. Nothing exceptional, I agree, but we couldn’t have made it with the healer (me) dead.

    TLDR: I’m not exceptional but many ppl out there are just too far below average. I mean, I can agree that dps comes with gear, but not taking damage has very little to spare with gear. Until people are obsessed with damage meters and don’t understand that a dodging but alive dps makes more dps than a dead dps, nothing will change. In the recent past i also died a lot because I tried to heal even if I would have better dodged or moved. Then one time a tank understood what I was trying to do and told me “dude, always remember that a living healer is better than a dead healer, even if saving yourself means letting a dps die, please save yourself and let him die, better spend 10 seconds for a ress after the pull than 1 minute in wiping plus coming back here”.
    Last edited by chiddie; 2021-03-29 at 08:53 PM.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I want to get the key done as quickly and successfully as possible. Fire mage has the burst to delete any hard pack. Moonkin has the utility to deal with most things.
    Fire mage is not the only spec to have that burst (hint, it is also a mage spec) and usually you get better players overall on off meta class, especially at high rio.

  12. #532
    For those having issues finding groups, getting into a 15 is quiet easy, you can purchase a single run for like 200k or large bundles of 15 and higher for gold. I just don't get how getting 10, 15 runs is hard.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavey View Post
    For those having issues finding groups, getting into a 15 is quiet easy, you can purchase a single run for like 200k or large bundles of 15 and higher for gold. I just don't get how getting 10, 15 runs is hard.
    This might blow your mind, but a large portion of the playerbase dont get any enjoyment at all out of purchasing carries. I know, mind blowing right? But honestly, many, MANY players want to actually EARN their gear, and feel that wonderful sense of accomplishment when they clear a dungeon, or raid, or reach a certain rating.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    I disagree with the last part. Never in the history of wow, could dps players "just spam" any 5-man content. Never.
    Are you disagreeing because they are dps? I can see SOME merit in your comment then, however many of us vividly remember spamming 5mans in early expansions through the random Queue.....so yeah, plenty of times players were spamming 5mans endlessly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavey View Post
    For those having issues finding groups, getting into a 15 is quiet easy, you can purchase a single run for like 200k or large bundles of 15 and higher for gold. I just don't get how getting 10, 15 runs is hard.
    I bought some AotC carries (I'm not interested in raiding and I have some bis items on Generals and Denathrius). I won't buy a M+ carry, because it feels good to play the game in the activity you appreciate with instead of being afk. I want to earn KSM.

  15. #535
    how did you get 1.5k when you cant get into a 15?

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    Then it depends on your definition of "spamming" dungeons.

    I've only been around for the first 2 raid tiers of Legion, but in those tiers you couldn't "spam" anything as DPS (in pugs), you still had to find tanks and healers which were as rare back then as they are now. "Spamming" for me means, finish a dungeon, and start the next one within ~5 minutes. Unless you had a tank/healer friend to join groups with you, it was still hard to find groups (even lower keys) as dps.
    Hes just another titanforging widow pretty much xd thats what he meant with spamming dungs for gear, which actually means "spamming low dungeons for the chance of getting gear that in Shadowlands i cant get cause i cba to do the content that drops it".

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    Idk about you but Famed Slayer of Denathrius looks pretty good, Sinbreaker also, gear hasnt been worth to show off for ages.
    Famed titles are all uninspired garbage. The only one that's vaguely worth using is the Uu'nat one, and that's only because of how rare it is for a modern PvE title.
    Voidshuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Take that pull right before the gauntlet in SD.
    Thats why you skip that pack and it also lines up pride better.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This might blow your mind, but a large portion of the playerbase dont get any enjoyment at all out of purchasing carries. I know, mind blowing right? But honestly, many, MANY players want to actually EARN their gear, and feel that wonderful sense of accomplishment when they clear a dungeon, or raid, or reach a certain rating.

    - - - Updated - - -
    There are people who see the gear as just a tool and not an achievement, but that's not what I was trying to say and a totally different point of a different conversation. I was making an inference about the nature of the player base complaining about exclusion but unwilling to be the agent of their own progression. If they want to be guaranteed a spot with a group just pay for it, if not don't fear rejection. I see applying to groups in LFG like picking women up at a bar, sometimes you get lucky and take home a woman, other times you strike out, but if you want a sure thing you pay for it at a legal brothel only in select counties of the beautiful state of Nevada.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Are you disagreeing because they are dps? I can see SOME merit in your comment then, however many of us vividly remember spamming 5mans in early expansions through the random Queue.....so yeah, plenty of times players were spamming 5mans endlessly.
    Yeah, this whole topic is basically about dps players not being invited to PUGs.

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