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  1. #621
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    I notice you ignored my sims which also show that NF is better.
    Also if Necro is better, then that should still be showing up on logs even with it being a minority. Not a single necrolord is in the top 100 parses on mythic *Shriekwing. I'd be happy to hear it's actually ahead, but I can't find any actual data which bears that out. The only data you've given actually shows that NF is in fact better.
    Those sims show just the soulbind, not the ability, which the ability is better.


    Also AGAIN i think you fail to realize how logs work.


    the best of the best players will play the best option, which for warlocks is night fae, as its best for affliction, so many of them will choose night fae, and then play demonology, still as night fae cause its not a big enough bonus to be worth changing.


    Were you one of the people who thought ele was bad in BFA too?

    Blizzard themselves literally laid out how it works



    Something is 1% better

    so all the top players choose that thing
    and then when you look at logs it looks like its 10% better!!!!

    Cause all the best players are playing for that 1%, and all the worse the other, which means it looks like 10% even though its 1%

    necrolord is better for demo, but on logs night fae is higher because most warlocks go nightfae cause its better for both destro and aff, and only a slight bit worse for demo, so that means all the best players are on night fae, which makes it look like night fae is "FAR BETTER"

    even though as you literally disprove with your sims, even in the soulbinds night fae is only a tiny bit higher, but for some reason on logs it seems to be FAAAAAR better? hmmm? and again you are only comparing the soulbind, and not the actual ability itself.

  2. #622
    imagine pugging in wow
    lmao

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Those sims show just the soulbind, not the ability, which the ability is better.


    Also AGAIN i think you fail to realize how logs work.


    the best of the best players will play the best option, which for warlocks is night fae, as its best for affliction, so many of them will choose night fae, and then play demonology, still as night fae cause its not a big enough bonus to be worth changing.


    Were you one of the people who thought ele was bad in BFA too?

    Blizzard themselves literally laid out how it works



    Something is 1% better

    so all the top players choose that thing
    and then when you look at logs it looks like its 10% better!!!!

    Cause all the best players are playing for that 1%, and all the worse the other, which means it looks like 10% even though its 1%

    necrolord is better for demo, but on logs night fae is higher because most warlocks go nightfae cause its better for both destro and aff, and only a slight bit worse for demo, so that means all the best players are on night fae, which makes it look like night fae is "FAR BETTER"

    even though as you literally disprove with your sims, even in the soulbinds night fae is only a tiny bit higher, but for some reason on logs it seems to be FAAAAAR better? hmmm? and again you are only comparing the soulbind, and not the actual ability itself.
    The sims include the ability. It's part of the APL. If you switch to a NF soulbind, it'll start using the NF ability.

    I'm aware that the best players will be playing the best option. Obviously that's NF for affliction, but if Necro were actually best for demo, I'd expect the demo experts to be using it and getting better numbers out of it. They are not. The best demo locks are still playing NF.

    You keep saying it's better and not providing any evidence. Again, please show me the data that shows I'm better off picking Necrolord. That would make me happy.
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    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    there is a huge difference between having a +10 key and having +15 key.

    every mythic raider spams +15s. no 220+ people have anything to get from +10 .

    in past those people could just spam +10 for TF when met with rejection in +15 - but now ? nothign to gain - so its basicly down to playing "you got declined symulator"
    i woundnt be so sure with that, i have seen 226s sign up for my alts 10-13 searching for trinkets also my bm main is almost 224 and im still rocking 213 gloves

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycras View Post
    Yeap, you did guess right !

    Warlock !

    Title says it all..

    I've nothing to say. Thank you.
    Your rio is too low. Farm a little bit more. At 3k rio you'll get more invites.

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    uhhhh not true.
    Necrolord is the highest dps for demo lock...

    Here is if you include only the soulbinds, which well as you can see niya is only a tiny bit higher.
    and most guides are still out of date, before necrolord and night fae were neck in neck, but with the decimating bolt un-nerfs it pulled ahead. sadly most people play night fae cause its the best for affliction, and only a tiny bit behind for demo, so they run it anyways.
    truth be told its like this because most people just play affliction . end of story . because it simms better.

    but agreed that nothing fits to warlocks as well as necrolords thematicaly .

  7. #627
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    I don't play warlock, but are warlocks unable to make their own group in-game like other classes can?
    Yepp, only edgy demon hunters can make m+ groups or convoke boomies.

    same with raiding, you bring 28 boomies with convoke and resto affinity and 1 DH tank 1 resto shaman for heroism / tank healing and you just nuke all bosses in CN normal/heroic.

  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Uvania View Post
    Yepp, only edgy demon hunters can make m+ groups or convoke boomies.

    same with raiding, you bring 28 boomies with convoke and resto affinity and 1 DH tank 1 resto shaman for heroism / tank healing and you just nuke all bosses in CN normal/heroic.
    i have seen literaly 1 semi-decent boomkin in m+ this expansion. 99% of them are complete trash fotm rerollers . just this weekend i had in my party 216 boomy who did overall the same dmg as my 200 itlv retri paladin. what he also had was 900 toxic.io so clearly he got carried a lot.

    honestly if i was making +15 groups i would take non-meta classes over meta 100 % of time - because good meta players dont do +15 only like +20 atm .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-04-07 at 06:32 AM.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i have seen literaly 1 semi-decent boomking in m+ this expansion. 99% of them are complete trash fotm rerollers . just this weekend i had in my party 216 boomy who did overall the same dmg as my 200 itlv retri paladin. what he also had was 900 toxic.io so clearly he got carried a lot.

    honestly if i was making +15 groups i would take non-meta classes over meta 100 % of time - because good meta players dont do +15 only like +20 atm .
    What do you expect. You need to use raider.io within reason. Obviously it does not give you information about a guys skill with 900 r.io. 900 rio is something around 10s, right? These dungeons can be done by 3 people, who are themselves not even that great.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Uvania View Post
    Yepp, only edgy demon hunters can make m+ groups or convoke boomies.

    same with raiding, you bring 28 boomies with convoke and resto affinity and 1 DH tank 1 resto shaman for heroism / tank healing and you just nuke all bosses in CN normal/heroic.
    The thing is, even if you can make your own groups, it is still a disadvantage to be unable to join other groups. Because a 15 key, can easily be depleted down to a 13 with some bad luck. And that keystone level is where the real shitshow starts.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i have seen literaly 1 semi-decent boomkin in m+ this expansion. 99% of them are complete trash fotm rerollers . just this weekend i had in my party 216 boomy who did overall the same dmg as my 200 itlv retri paladin. what he also had was 900 toxic.io so clearly he got carried a lot.

    honestly if i was making +15 groups i would take non-meta classes over meta 100 % of time - because good meta players dont do +15 only like +20 atm .
    Bro, ima be honest with you. What keys are you actually running? Cause at 200 ilvl, and other info you have posted, im guessing you arent running high keys. Obviously the meta classes with low 900 rio like that moonkin arent gonna be very good. The good ones shot up to the higher keys a long time ago.

    Not really trying to tell you to git gud, but get better gear, build up your rio, get into higher keys and you'll start to understand why some classes are meta.

    Good meta classes do +15s for their vault. Youll see the 1800+ "toxic.io" queuing up for your 15s

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i have seen literaly 1 semi-decent boomkin in m+ this expansion. 99% of them are complete trash fotm rerollers . just this weekend i had in my party 216 boomy who did overall the same dmg as my 200 itlv retri paladin. what he also had was 900 toxic.io so clearly he got carried a lot.

    honestly if i was making +15 groups i would take non-meta classes over meta 100 % of time - because good meta players dont do +15 only like +20 atm .
    Yea I agree with your statement but I think its more of a class issue than anything. Boomies are literally there to blow up bosses and assuming they know how to use convoke they are probably going to do very high damage to single target situations. But they have such a long cooldown that they arent going to be like a mage who can combust on a pack, then combust on the pride and lastly get combust back towards the end of a boss.

    Yea Im sure a good boomy will do ok damage on packs and decent damage overall in a dungeon, but they cant compete to other classes on aoe so their overall is going to suffer alot.
    Last edited by mjolnrik; 2021-04-07 at 08:10 PM.

  12. #632
    I've got no clue what people want anymore. I started leveling and alt ele shammy last week on horde for fun and because the spec is strong right now.
    I've got to the point I'm just not getting invites anymore. 213 ilvl, 2.8k main rio and just not a single key. I've tried running my own keys, but I also get barely no signups
    so either people are picky when signing up as well or there simply isn't the amount of supply.

    Now, I've got enough friends to play with so that it doesn't bother me too much, but just wanted to share the feeling as I've got no clue what people even look for anymore for 15s

  13. #633
    The Lightbringer
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    Looks like your useless IO score means nothing after all. I'm 228ilvl and my IO is like 1300-1400 or something. Not even sure. Whatever you get from doing 15s and 16s. It's only 15s now because for a while I did 16s to get a 15 in my box next week. I app and get in after a few which takes like a minute. Have gear and it's easy if you're just doing a box. It's been this way for months since doing 15s was easy for Joe Casual to do. My alt is 221 ilvl and a prot warrior and I get into groups for anything instantly because I'm a tank so that's normal. I have maybe 800 IO on him because I only ever do keys I want gear from and only 15s at most because doing anything higher is dumb.

    I don't get why you kids have this ridiculous idea of "just get more IO LOLOLOL" to get into 15s. You know who cares about IO? Boosted rats and people that sell carries to boosted rats. They keep insisting it matters because they are one or the other. The score means absolutely nothing. I don't even look at someone's score when they app, only if they've done 20+ 15s because if they haven't even done that, they're useless and I don't want them. I never take melee because I don't like melee. I push my own keys if I have a good one or I do a random one if I get a shit one. I'd normally do them with friends but people are too burned out the last few weeks so I pug them. I was scared at first but it's so fucking easy to do a 15 even with absolute spongebrained gravy drinkers. They aren't hard, you guys know they're not hard, nobody is saying they're hard but yet you'll still have mongoloids insisting you need X IO to do it but you don't. I've never had a problem getting into groups because I have gear and naturally look like I have done these keys a lot because I have because they're easy as shit for free gear.

    If you're some kid that has 213 gear tryna get into a key and you're like "but my main's got 2500 IO thoooooooo", tough shit, I'm gonna take this 220 mage coz he's the more obvious choice. Maybe he's shit, maybe he's a boosted maggot, maybe you are, I don't know but it's my key so I can be as arbitrary as I want. You can too if you just push your own key. If you get a shit dungeon you don't wanna do which I understand and can relate to but in that case, just app to a few keys and see what happens. If it takes more than a few minutes, accept that you aren't in a position to be picky and deal with it.
    Infracted
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2021-04-10 at 10:55 AM.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  14. #634
    Brewmaster czarek's Avatar
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    I had same problem. Already done KSM. I could get inv after about few minutes. Just try hard do ur keys. Im shadow priest 1.3k rio. 222ilvl. First steps were hard. Like 1h spam to get inv. My keys were deplated mostly. I know that could be frustrated.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by faunski View Post
    I've got no clue what people want anymore. I started leveling and alt ele shammy last week on horde for fun and because the spec is strong right now.
    I've got to the point I'm just not getting invites anymore. 213 ilvl, 2.8k main rio and just not a single key. I've tried running my own keys, but I also get barely no signups
    so either people are picky when signing up as well or there simply isn't the amount of supply.

    Now, I've got enough friends to play with so that it doesn't bother me too much, but just wanted to share the feeling as I've got no clue what people even look for anymore for 15s
    You are overestimating the value of main rio. People are looking for ilvl.

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by Nohara View Post
    You are overestimating the value of main rio. People are looking for ilvl.
    Yeah, I mean that part is somewhat deducible given I get invites on any of my other chars with 220+ instantly.

    Again, I'm not complaining as I have people to play with, but just wanted to share the sentiment of not getting invited and confirming to other people that io doesn't help.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I agree with that, I just view dungeons as inferior to raids, despite m+. M+ is a great addition because it gives you something to do if you want to play outside of raid nights with your guild. But those raid nights are the real highlights of WoW, that's why I care more about them than dungeon balance.
    Pretty much. And I'm gearing up a pally tank atm. Learning routes and such, and when I'm done, I may add people who keep getting declined here. Poor spriests and warlocks...
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    "Real" MMORPG means not having the lionshare of your content be singleplayer. Pretty objective, no?

  18. #638
    Tbh... I don't look at the score that much. Rather the amount of clears on that key is vital to me.

    A 2k score but every dungeon cleared only once or twice screams boosted.

    A 1300 score but you've done the dungeon 15+ already like 20 or 30 times? I'm picking you.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatch4Ever View Post
    Tbh... I don't look at the score that much. Rather the amount of clears on that key is vital to me.

    A 2k score but every dungeon cleared only once or twice screams boosted.

    A 1300 score but you've done the dungeon 15+ already like 20 or 30 times? I'm picking you.
    As someone who routinely boosts 20s, you cannot be raw boosted up to that level. We expects clients to perform above average (not on exceptional level, but decent) as there's not a lot of leeway for failure. Also, given the price those boosts run I really don't think anyone would randomly take enough time to learn to play the class well and then sink 15-20M gold for all 20s timed which give no extra reward.

    Just pointing it out there that there's a limit you can be "purely boosted" and above that level the players will have some clue how to play.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by faunski View Post
    As someone who routinely boosts 20s, you cannot be raw boosted up to that level. We expects clients to perform above average (not on exceptional level, but decent) as there's not a lot of leeway for failure. Also, given the price those boosts run I really don't think anyone would randomly take enough time to learn to play the class well and then sink 15-20M gold for all 20s timed which give no extra reward.

    Just pointing it out there that there's a limit you can be "purely boosted" and above that level the players will have some clue how to play.
    Fair enough. I was thinking more of a guild boost. I am very late to the addon, and my RIO is already 1400 because I'm basically getting carried by the top geared guys from my guild. I still don't know the dungeons at all essentially and it shows because I've barely cleared them once or twice and I am already above 10 in all of them.

    Granted, 1400 is nowhere close to 2000, but let's reduce that to a stable 1600-1800 and I think my point stands still. 2k you're right, all keys 20 in AFK mode is kinda impossible considering it would take like 4 other demi-gods to carry a dead body through that.

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