1.5K Rio 224 ilvl and cant get in +15s... Guess which class ?

[Sanitee]

Because making your own group comes with many disadvantages.
E.g. having a SD +13 key on a sanguine tyrannical week, while not needing a single item out of that dungeon and it does not even contribute to my goal to get x +14s done.
I am not saying you should ONLY join other groups, but having the ability to do so, helps you out tremendously.

Disadvantages like having to (gasp) work your key up to the level you want to be doing content at, instead of relying on other people to get there and then lifting you up so you can take advantage of THEIR work instead of putting in your own? Wow

(Somewhat exaggerated response, but yeah... again, the problem isn't you, it's the cutthroat level of competition for dps spots)

[cface]

Hi, Warlock here. Even worse, playing Venthyr.

I've got a suggestion for you that'll solve 95% of your problems in the game, and has basically been a cure-all for these kinds of issues since 2004.
1) Make friends. It's easy to do if you're even remotely competent as other players will gravitate towards prospects that're reliable over rolling the dice on randos every time. Plus, engaging in discussion and sharing progress with others is very enjoyable.
2) Join those friends' guild. Pretty simple and straight-forward... if the people you like playing with have a guild, join it. Keep playing with them through various activities. If you have multiple, different groups of people you can rely on to do content, suggest making a Community with them. It's really easy.

I say this all as someone who generally plays as much of the game as I can solo, and who wishes there were solo, offline options for Classic WoW... but if you're going to engage in group content, why rely on random, different strangers every time?

If you don't want to build those connections, then yeah... be prepared to be a Meta-slave who is chasing fotm memes for people who want the game to be its easiest possible version by sanding down all of its rough edges via min/max.

I can attest to this, my alt is a warlock, only 205, but still did my 14 key yesterday as affliction cause I just like the spec. To make matters even "worse", I play with 2 friends that are non-meta dps, and we still found tank and healer for our keys to get our weekly done.
I know you want KSM, and it's perfectly possible if you just run you and your friends keys. This game is simply not enjoyable with all players being pugs.
I've rolled tank recently to focus on KSM, and I can tell you, the last dps spot in my groups is simply gonna the best I can get, cause pug dps are overall pretty damn bad. Everyone has 216 nowadays, and somehow especially hunters seem to struggle doing ok dps.

But I would have invited OP with that score and gear no problem, and just use drums. All it takes is to not die to stupid stuff and know when to pump, and when to hold

[czarek]

How to solve this problem in one easy step:
1:Create your own group.

Yes. Create than wipe on 1st pack. Tank is leaving GG. Ur key is dumped. Last week ive made like this. Done 1st instance than fail after 1st pack. Tank pulled too much and we wiped he left GG.

[Sanitee]

I can attest to this, my alt is a warlock, only 205, but still did my 14 key yesterday as affliction cause I just like the spec. To make matters even "worse", I play with 2 friends that are non-meta dps, and we still found tank and healer for our keys to get our weekly done.
I know you want KSM, and it's perfectly possible if you just run you and your friends keys. This game is simply not enjoyable with all players being pugs.
I've rolled tank recently to focus on KSM, and I can tell you, the last dps spot in my groups is simply gonna the best I can get, cause pug dps are overall pretty damn bad. Everyone has 216 nowadays, and somehow especially hunters seem to struggle doing ok dps.

But I would have invited OP with that score and gear no problem, and just use drums. All it takes is to not die to stupid stuff and know when to pump, and when to hold

But you only would have taken op because you're aware of his situation. There's a ton of ppl in op's shoes in every que, but to all of us who don't know them, they're numbers on a screen

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Yes. Create than wipe on 1st pack. Tank is leaving GG. Ur key is dumped. Last week ive made like this. Done 1st instance than fail after 1st pack. Tank pulled too much and we wiped he left GG.

And now you know why others take the ones they think are least likely to ruin their key. Congrats on the revelation. You think other ppl care less about their keys than you care about yours? They face the exact same risk every time but they risk it and reap the rewards

[chiddie]

A not insignificant part of WoW's player base is wilfully bad - players that don't do their best and don't respect the time of their fellow gamer.
There can be wilfully bad gamers among bad players as well as among better players. What is common for them is that the find it ok not to try their best and that they expect other players to compensate for their "I just play for fun, lolz"-attitude.

Wilfully bad does not equal bad at the game, although there are more wilfully bad players among the those in the lower performance bracket, simply because they don't try their best.

The wilfully bad players are prevalent among those that complain about that other people don't invite them to their group as a wilfully bad player will never ever accept that his problems in-game can be of his own fault, whereas players that care about their performance always will find a way to better themselves in-game and find it natural to solve their own in-game "problems".

I understand what are you trying to say here, but I think that as usual truth lies in the middle.

There are a lot of clueless ppl that just search for carries and there are a lot of ppl that try to perform decently, with mistakes here and there, and they don’t deserve to be insulted if/when they make a mistake.

I can indeed believe that in close to 15 bracket people become more choosy and players with proper experience but out of the meta have an hard life. Again, pushing your own key or make your own routine group to push is surely the best way, but try to understand that it’s not always possible.

[SirReal]

Yeap, you did guess right !

Warlock !

Title says it all..

I've nothing to say. Thank you.

But I bet people would join your group if you just made one......at that point they see the RIO tool tip and go for it.

[czarek]

But you only would have taken op because you're aware of his situation. There's a ton of ppl in op's shoes in every que, but to all of us who don't know them, they're numbers on a screen

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And now you know why others take the ones they think are least likely to ruin their key. Congrats on the revelation. You think other ppl care less about their keys than you care about yours? They face the exact same risk every time but they risk it and reap the rewards

The diffrent is im not leavin. Im here to finish it not even in time. I know the key is a big deal. Imo better to finish with no time than dump it. I care on the others keys as on my own.

[SirReal]

Because making your own group comes with many disadvantages.
E.g. having a SD +13 key on a sanguine tyrannical week, while not needing a single item out of that dungeon and it does not even contribute to my goal to get x +14s done.
I am not saying you should ONLY join other groups, but having the ability to do so, helps you out tremendously.

This is fair. My suggestion was make your own group, but if you're going for KSM or need specific dungs then it's entirely possible you don't have the key.

[Sanitee]

The diffrent is im not leavin. Im here to finish it not even in time. I know the key is a big deal. Imo better to finish with no time than dump it. I care on the others keys as on my own.

But nobody who doesn't know you knows that, it's as if so many cannot grasp that pug strangers know literally nothing about you other than the numbers they see on screen. Then you need to analyze those numbers and decide which is least likely to mess up your key. Again, the problem in que isn't you, it's the 50+ dps in that que, many who have better gear and score. Why would the one making the key pick you specifically?

[kiramon]

I understand what are you trying to say here, but I think that as usual truth lies in the middle.

There are a lot of clueless ppl that just search for carries and there are a lot of ppl that try to perform decently, with mistakes here and there, and they don’t deserve to be insulted if/when they make a mistake.

I can indeed believe that in close to 15 bracket people become more choosy and players with proper experience but out of the meta have an hard life. Again, pushing your own key or make your own routine group to push is surely the best way, but try to understand that it’s not always possible.

Because the people that "do fine" pull 3.1k overall dps in 12s, think they're ready for 14-15s, and then watch as they have a flawless run with zero deaths but still fail the timer because mobs just don't die fast enough in 14s. Then they get lucky and go to a 15, proceed to save every cooldown for after a Pride For the Big Deepz, nearly dying because they pull 2.5k dps on a 15 pride and think it's the healer sucking for struggling to keep them up through a 2minute pride battle, and cry because they died despite doing a massive 2 interrupts on a pack of Dark Lash'ing mobs with a rebellious fist going off.

[dawawe]

This is my favorite way to weed people out. If you can't manage even a hello, then you're probably going to bail at the first sign of a death and I'm definitely kicking you.


Also, communication is so much more significantly important than anything else. Make a random discord. Invite whomever you want to your key, and make it a requirement to at least be in it to listen for those willing to talk. I've seen wipes saved because someone who never spoke a word in voice used a defensive when told to.

I'm the one that said "Hello friend" ;-;

[chiddie]

WoW isn't my second job either and I don't keep up with logs or simcraft or full optimization. That doesn't stop from being prepared (having a good grasp of the key things to know for every dungeon, not the full knowledge of the small intricacies and the perfect pulls/routes but the essential knowledge and having consumables) because this kind of preparation is neither hard nor too much time consuming.

I don't have issues with people making mistakes. We all do, myself first, especially in a pug environment with obviously limited realistic expectations. What I have more difficulties to accept is glaring and basic mistakes in a key level where it should be common knowledge (like dying on the beams on the first HoA boss). For example, I had a tank backpedaling and slowly moving backwards in HoA when tanking enraged bears in a +12 fortified setting. That was his definition of "kiting" and he got murdered multiple times. Not timing a key is fine too, but basic mistakes tend to piss me off very quickly (like triggering a Prideful during a hard pack).

Maybe I’ve been lucky with pugs, but of all the runs I failed until now, 7 on 10 were due to bad dps, with the rest due to failing mechanics or a mix of the two above.

But as I said you can fail a mechanic even if you know what do do.

Then there are of course cases like one of my NW 12 this week where all the others were guildies and they were surprised i left after 60 deaths and the timer being expired BEFORE Amarth (yes, I should have left at the second wipe at first boss, I know, my bad, I was just curious how bad this could become) but these are limited cases.

[czarek]

But nobody who doesn't know you knows that, it's as if so many cannot grasp that pug strangers know literally nothing about you other than the numbers they see on screen. Then you need to analyze those numbers and decide which is least likely to mess up your key. Again, the problem in que isn't you, it's the 50+ dps in that que, many who have better gear and score. Why would the one making the key pick you specifically?

That is the problem of RIO it self. I know ur point but its really frustrating if u had no key and no s-tier class/spec.

[chiddie]

Because the people that "do fine" pull 3.1k overall dps in 12s, think they're ready for 14-15s, and then watch as they have a flawless run with zero deaths but still fail the timer because mobs just don't die fast enough in 14s. Then they get lucky and go to a 15, proceed to save every cooldown for after a Pride For the Big Deepz, nearly dying because they pull 2.5k dps on a 15 pride and think it's the healer sucking for struggling to keep them up through a 2minute pride battle, and cry because they died despite doing a massive 2 interrupts on a pack of Dark Lash'ing mobs with a rebellious fist going off.

Well , I’m the healer and I see this all the time XD.

The most amusing thing is dps blaming me for not healing their dots on dots on dots on dots for something like 849494 times every pull.

I am also starting to think, regardless the metas, that on 11-13 bracket it’s better have all melees instead of all ranged, seems incredible but good melees take way less damage than good ranged (hunters especially take a hella LOT of damage, no idea how and why).

[kiramon]

Well , I’m the healer and I see this all the time XD.

The most amusing thing is dps blaming me for not healing their dots on dots on dots on dots for something like 849494 times every pull.

I am also starting to think, regardless the metas, that on 11-13 bracket it’s better have all melees instead of all ranged, seems incredible but good melees take way less damage than good ranged (hunters especially take a hella LOT of damage, no idea how and why).

lol those runs are my favorite cuz theyre like Y U NOT DPZ. Uhm, cuz youre making me heal 6k HPS from standing in stuff... I think it's hunters a lot cuz unlike a mage that'll blink or cancel a cast to move out from a 1 shot, a hunter is like ITZURKAYIHAVETURTLEZ while casting an aimed shot, lol

[chiddie]

lol those runs are my favorite cuz theyre like Y U NOT DPZ. Uhm, cuz youre making me heal 6k HPS from standing in stuff... I think it's hunters a lot cuz unlike a mage that'll blink or cancel a cast to move out from a 1 shot, a hunter is like ITZURKAYIHAVETURTLEZ while casting an aimed shot, lol

I noticed that almost every run where I have to push more than 3.2-3.5hps and have near to zero dps is likely to be a failure run. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions.

Problem is 9 on 10 are above 3.5hps XD. Really, the amount of damage that ppl just keep without even noticing and then blaming me for not covering it, is just insane. It’s more evident when you have two dps same class/spec and you see that one makes tons of damage without being hit while the other has half dps and takes more damage than the tank.

It’s not a problem but dude, why blaming the healer? XD

[Garybear]

I can't take this serious. all are 220? You can time +10 that with 3 players who are that geared and take two players who are 150ilvl.
We have done that. I am a paladin tank 221, holy priest 213 and enhancement shaman 222, all non-meta and boosting ele sham and outlaw rogue both sub 180 through 12s easy.

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No one would pay for 30+ 15s boosts. Doing KSM alone is over 2mil I believe. Doing it 4 times? lol

Non-meta but yet you have a luster...

[dacoolist]

The same way you, a scrub, pugged with a lower score?

Most people here don't even have KSM though, that's the issue - to pug you need to climb the ladder right? Pugging with nothing to back yourself up will never work - you need something to show that you can accomplish the harder tasks. If IO didn't exist, the game would have something else in place to show how good you are. You cannot pug without having some sort of baseline

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That is the problem of RIO it self. I know ur point but its really frustrating if u had no key and no s-tier class/spec.

You won't have an issue if you run your own key. Then you get to bring all the non-meta classes you've always wanted to bring!

[kiramon]

Most people here don't even have KSM though, that's the issue - to pug you need to climb the ladder right? Pugging with nothing to back yourself up will never work - you need something to show that you can accomplish the harder tasks. If IO didn't exist, the game would have something else in place to show how good you are. You cannot pug without having some sort of baseline

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You won't have an issue if you run your own key. Then you get to bring all the non-meta classes you've always wanted to bring!

Yeah,

It'll be "Link KSM" or "Link KSC" or "link whatever-the-5s-cleared-is-lol"

[neescher]

I noticed that almost every run where I have to push more than 3.2-3.5hps and have near to zero dps is likely to be a failure run. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions.

Problem is 9 on 10 are above 3.5hps XD. Really, the amount of damage that ppl just keep without even noticing and then blaming me for not covering it, is just insane. It’s more evident when you have two dps same class/spec and you see that one makes tons of damage without being hit while the other has half dps and takes more damage than the tank.

It’s not a problem but dude, why blaming the healer? XD

That's not my experience at all, I have 40 runs 15+ and probably more than 50 runs on 14 on my healer, about half of which are pugs, and in this entire expansion I was never blamed for people dying or for a depleted key, even if it was partially or entirely my fault. Also, no one ever said anything about not doing enough dps (or no dps at all), which is really refreshing.

I might just have been really lucky, because that's not how I remember healing in Legion/BFA.