1.5K Rio 224 ilvl and cant get in +15s... Guess which class ?

[kamuimac]

A few bosses yeah they are definitely easier, some of them are harder than +15s, but not by much anyways. And its not like people got their early KSM in 220 gear, they all had to tackle +15s and clear them in time with some shitty 207-213 gear, and back then shit was overtuned, now? not by one bit, overtuned is a big word often used in a wrong way, like now.

which people ? those people who now are doing like m+26 ? sure those did.

but not your general playerbase. and sorry but content which drops 203-210 itlv should be tuned properly - not tuned for top 5% of playerbase. because it leads to disaster exodus of players.

you gonna pretend you dont know what i mean - i mean groups where everyone is 215 + failing to time dungeons which drop 203 itlv .

its like people who outgear hc raids failed repeatedly in normal raid.

[chiddie]

which people ? those people who now are doing like m+26 ? sure those did.

but not your general playerbase. and sorry but content which drops 203-210 itlv should be tuned properly - not tuned for top 5% of playerbase. because it leads to disaster exodus of players.

you gonna pretend you dont know what i mean - i mean groups where everyone is 215 + failing to time dungeons which drop 203 itlv .

its like people who outgear hc raids failed repeatedly in normal raid.

Dude you have a point.

Still in not sure if it’s content that is overturned or ppl that is undertuned.

Unfortunately whatever the reasons, runs just fail horribly XD. I’m not even sure that overgearing helps at this point because if ppl do 3,5k dps in 215 gear I don’t expect them to magically reach 5k if they get to 225.

[Th3Scourge]

How did you get 1.5k io if you don’t get invited to groups?

[ellieg]

which people ? those people who now are doing like m+26 ? sure those did.

but not your general playerbase. and sorry but content which drops 203-210 itlv should be tuned properly - not tuned for top 5% of playerbase. because it leads to disaster exodus of players.

you gonna pretend you dont know what i mean - i mean groups where everyone is 215 + failing to time dungeons which drop 203 itlv .

its like people who outgear hc raids failed repeatedly in normal raid.

You gotta take the vault into account too. If you're talking about content dropping 203 ilvl, that's ~+10. Assuming they've done it a few weeks, that's a few pieces of 220 loot they should've gotten.

And honestly, if you're 215 ilvl failing in a +10, that's 100% a you problem. In a +10 the prideful mob gets deleted way before a 20 stack, prob under 10 stack on most groups. There is enough of a timer where u could full wipe 3+ times. And even on tyrannical, there is pretty much nothing that will 1 shot u, especially in 215 ilvl.

[chiddie]

You gotta take the vault into account too. If you're talking about content dropping 203 ilvl, that's ~+10. Assuming they've done it a few weeks, that's a few pieces of 220 loot they should've gotten.

And honestly, if you're 215 ilvl failing in a +10, that's 100% a you problem. In a +10 the prideful mob gets deleted way before a 20 stack, prob under 10 stack on most groups. There is enough of a timer where u could full wipe 3+ times. And even on tyrannical, there is pretty much nothing that will 1 shot u, especially in 215 ilvl.

That is not my experience in the slightest.

[ellieg]

That is not my experience in the slightest.

Besides muehzala, name some boss abilities that will 100%-0% a 215 ilvl player in +10.

[neescher]

As a healer, as much as I can “love” rio, I’m at a point in which I would really like whatever addon to show, besides the key, the average dps for finished keys (in time or not, does not matter) of the party members.

A good 70% of my failed runs fail because dps simply don’t do enough dps. I am 100% ok with missing mechanics because I also do sometimes but I’m really tired of having to almost always stick with 1000+ rio ppl that do 3-3,5k dps in 11-13 bracket and blame me and/or the tank all the time.

The problem with that is, there's so much difference in average dps from one run to the next, based on how the tank pulls, how the tank holds aggro, which dungeon it is, what the keystone level is, how good the healer is, how much utility is being used by everyone, etc...

I've seen people do 3,5k overall dps in one dungeon, then 7,5k in the next one.

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lack of dps is pretty much never the reason for a failed run, especially on those levels. You can easily time keys with mouth drooling half brain afk players, as long as the route is good and the mechanics are done properly. Sure more dps is always nice because it gives you more leeway for whenever mistakes happen and with less dps fights are longer and more mistakes can happen during longer fights, so it makes it harder, sure. But in the end it's the mistakes that break the key, not the low dps. If the tank dies because he didn't use a defensive for a hard hitting boss ability, then it's not the fault of the dps who could've done more damage and kill the boss before he used that ability.

Way too many people can only beat dungeons if they can burst a boss down before that boss does any of their abilities because those players never actually learned that boss. All they can do is pew pew.

Yeah pretty much agree. You still see pugs completely fail or ignore boss mechanics in tyrannical weeks, because those mechanics simply don't have to be played in non-tyrannical weeks. Like, many pugs don't know how Hakkar works, they just burst him down and hope it's enough. People don't know how Dealer Xy'exa works, or Blightbone in NW. Tanks that tell the hunters to turtle the orbs on Oryphrion because they don't know the boss takes 100% increased damage during that phase and you need that damage in tyrannical. It's insane what you can get away with when it's not tyrannical.

[chiddie]

Besides muehzala, name some boss abilities that will 100%-0% a 215 ilvl player in +10.

In tyr weeks? I think that at least Stradama tentacles will one shot you. Maybe also third SoA boss pools and Xav ground green triangle or again in PF the first boss breath. Also again in PF there is a mob in the right platform or second boss whose spit will one shot you unless you’re a tank.

And I’m probably forgetting a LOT of stuff. Also notice that 100-0 or 100-10 does not often make THAT difference, depending on the situation if the damaged dude is not the tank it won’t probably be saved in time anyways.

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The problem with that is, there's so much difference in average dps from one run to the next, based on how the tank pulls, how the tank holds aggro, which dungeon it is, what the keystone level is, how good the healer is, how much utility is being used by everyone, etc...

I've seen people do 3,5k overall dps in one dungeon, then 7,5k in the next one.

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Yeah pretty much agree. You still see pugs completely fail or ignore boss mechanics in tyrannical weeks, because those mechanics simply don't have to be played in non-tyrannical weeks. Like, many pugs don't know how Hakkar works, they just burst him down and hope it's enough. People don't know how Dealer Xy'exa works, or Blightbone in NW. Tanks that tell the hunters to turtle the orbs on Oryphrion because they don't know the boss takes 100% increased damage during that phase and you need that damage in tyrannical. It's insane what you can get away with when it's not tyrannical.

Blightbone? Really? Seems a pretty straightforward mechanic to me. I mean, don’t stand in bad stuff, spread if circled and kill adds asap? Not sure it’s much more than that. Dealer, Hakkar and Manastorms are trickier, even more than Mueh’zala.

[ellieg]

In tyr weeks? I think that at least Stradama tentacles will one shot you. Maybe also third SoA boss pools and Xav ground green triangle or again in PF the first boss breath. Also again in PF there is a mob in the right platform or second boss whose spit will one shot you unless you’re a tank.

And I’m probably forgetting a LOT of stuff. Also notice that 100-0 or 100-10 does not often make THAT difference, depending on the situation if the damaged dude is not the tank it won’t probably be saved in time anyways.

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Blightbone? Really? Seems a pretty straightforward mechanic to me. I mean, don’t stand in bad stuff, spread if circled and kill adds asap? Not sure it’s much more than that. Dealer, Hakkar and Manastorms are trickier, even more than Mueh’zala.

These will hit a 215 player on +10 for about 80% of their health. If they are topped off, they can survive. Also if they use literally any defensive if not topped off.

My main point is that if a group of 215 ilvl players aren't timing a +10, its a them problem and not an overtuned problem.

[chiddie]

These will hit a 215 player on +10 for about 80% of their health. If they are topped off, they can survive. Also if they use literally any defensive if not topped off.

My main point is that if a group of 215 ilvl players aren't timing a +10, its a them problem and not an overtuned problem.

Maybe you’re right, I can’t tell because I’m only 210 but those abilities in 12-13 are basically one shooting anyone but the tank as far as I saw till now.

I am still unsure about Stradama tentacles, on Sunday I ran a PF 7 “for fun” and I died at Stradama tentacles, unfortunately I don’t remember how much hps left I had.

[ellieg]

Maybe you’re right, I can’t tell because I’m only 210 but those abilities in 12-13 are basically one shooting anyone but the tank as far as I saw till now.

I am still unsure about Stradama tentacles, on Sunday I ran a PF 7 “for fun” and I died at Stradama tentacles, unfortunately I don’t remember how much hps left I had.

You are prob right abt the tentacles, but after the nerfs, there's plenty of time to rp walk out of them. And at 12 and 13s, things will def 1 shot you. At 10 tho, and in gear 15+ higher ilvls than you really need, it should be a walk in the park timing it.

[Siraeyou]

The valor system introduced a perverted effect :

1- People who get their achievement will now farm +15 for loot. They got higher RIO that those who couldn't have the achievement last week
2- The people without achivement will now be stuck because the +15 will litteraly be invaded by higher RIO player that are only there to farm their loot to upgrade.

In short, we're fucked.

Or you can use the current system and player behavior to your benefit. Make your own group stacked with these people and get yout R.IO up that way. Literally have done dozens of keys on my alts because there are so many people applying.

[chiddie]

Or you can use the current system and player behavior to your benefit. Make your own group stacked with these people and get yout R.IO up that way. Literally have done dozens of keys on my alts because there are so many people applying.

I also appreciated the suggestion “try to sign non meta classes/specs with good rio, there are high chances that they will perform better than the average joe playing the meta class/spec”.

Will definitely give this a try when I’ll try timing my MotS 12.

[fathom81]

i like to invite warlocks to my 15's, not everyone is metablind, but the best thing is just get a team/friends to play with

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Or you can use the current system and player behavior to your benefit. Make your own group stacked with these people and get yout R.IO up that way. Literally have done dozens of keys on my alts because there are so many people applying.

true story! it became harder to join keys, but easier to fill ur own

[reemi]

Yeap, you did guess right !

Warlock !

Title says it all..

I've nothing to say. Thank you.

I cant join any group +10 with my paladin ret at 212.

I can join all group with my paladin holy or tank at 212... and usually most dps are under 212 and do less damage than me.

This is what I hate of DPS...

[chiddie]

I cant join any group +10 with my paladin ret at 212.

I can join all group with my paladin holy or tank at 212... and usually most dps are under 212 and do less damage than me.

This is what I hate of DPS...

This is unfortunately due to the ratio dps:tank/healer that is probably 100:1

You would struggle with ret probably even if classes were more balanced dps wise.

And you don’t struggle as tank/healer due to those roles starving. No way I would be invited so easily in 12-13 with 210 gear unless I was a resto shaman, for example.

[kamuimac]

You gotta take the vault into account too. If you're talking about content dropping 203 ilvl, that's ~+10. Assuming they've done it a few weeks, that's a few pieces of 220 loot they should've gotten.

And honestly, if you're 215 ilvl failing in a +10, that's 100% a you problem. In a +10 the prideful mob gets deleted way before a 20 stack, prob under 10 stack on most groups. There is enough of a timer where u could full wipe 3+ times. And even on tyrannical, there is pretty much nothing that will 1 shot u, especially in 215 ilvl.

whyshould we ?

vault shoudl never be primary source of gearing

thats exacly what is wrong with current expansion

[Wuusah]

whyshould we ?

vault shoudl never be primary source of gearing

thats exacly what is wrong with current expansion

no, that's what is right about current expansion. Top gear should come with a weekly lockout. The Vault is great. It's just not balanced very well. This idea that we should be able to continuously grind the best gear is not healthy. Neither for the game, nor for the player's lifestyle.

[chiddie]

no, that's what is right about current expansion. Top gear should come with a weekly lockout. The Vault is great. It's just not balanced very well. This idea that we should be able to continuously grind the best gear is not healthy. Neither for the game, nor for the player's lifestyle.

We grind gear anyways because vault gear is one piece per week. That’s why valor popped out.

Even assuming you are always lucky with the vault, it will take 4 months to have all slots with a 220 piece and probably at least half of them won’t be bis either. In a more realistic scenario, by the time you are 220 a new season will pop out and you’ll have to enjoy the grinding again.

[ellieg]

whyshould we ?

vault shoudl never be primary source of gearing

thats exacly what is wrong with current expansion

I mean you can talk ideals and about should and shouldn't, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. If you are stuck at +10 for example, almost every week you'll be getting a pretty hefty upgrade that for me at least, has averaged out to about 1 overall ilvl increase a week. This helps u push past.