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  1. #1

    WoW (Retail) just doesnt feel the same anymore..

    As someone who's played every iteration of World of Warcraft, in my opinion, the game has just changed too much over the years, and i'd like to hear peoples thoughts on this..

    While i know Classic (and upcoming classic TBC) is a thing that i "could just return to" and i am in fact playing classic once in a while aswell, It feels ...Bad??... that all the progress that i've had over the 16 years i've played, are just.. "wasted" by the lack of interest..

    So.. heres some of my viewpoints..
    1: Classes arent interesting anymore: Instead of giving classes unique things, and building all relevant power into the class itself, Blizzard has since Legion gone with the approach of "borrowing" power to the players through various systems (artifacts, Corruption, Heart of Azeroth (including the armor pieces) and now the covenant system.. And to me this just doesnt feel fun..

    2: Gearing is an issue: Now. i know blizzard tried to fix this with the 9.0.5 change of upgrading m+ gear, but i'm a firm believer that this was the wrong approach.. i personally would've much prefered a way of "targeting" a piece of gear over time, which is the best it can be when you get it, rather than having to get a piece, and upgrade it to make it better.. On this front, i much prefered the WoTLK way of gearing where You had different difficulties of the same content (as you do now) but you also has badges to hand in to get a piece of gear which was mostly a "in between the difficulties" scaled item..

    3 (and this is mostly just a personal one i think) Maybe Its just getting old?. The game is 16 years old.. And theres not been much of a "Shift" in how the game works for the past what.. 6-7 years? blizzard seems to be stuck on the same ideas and systems rather than trying to be innovative.. and it just doesnt work for me anymore.. :/ Maybe blizzard has become too comfortable in their current space with no "real" competitors on the MMO market.. idk..

    I love world of warcraft. its been a part of my life for 16 years (granted, im only turning 25 this year) so its been with me for basicly all my life.. Its hard for me to just quit, but at the same time, I'm feeling the need for a change.. I strongly prefer MMO's in my gaming session, I've played mostly all of them, but theres just not anything "new and exciting" out there as of right now.. Which i feel the space needs..

  2. #2
    You are playing WoW since you were 9? i admire your dedication o/

  3. #3
    You're bored by a game you've been playing for years, no need to write a thesis. Just stop and do something else. This is a you problem.

  4. #4
    It's been garbage for years mate. Not sure what you expect on here as the white knights will defend it until the cows come home, no matter how awful it is lmao.
    Garbagelands xD

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    It's been garbage for years mate. Not sure what you expect on here as the white knights will defend it until the cows come home, no matter how awful it is lmao.
    Same thing can be said about the people who stick around and trash a game they supposedly hate, if you hate the game so much why not move on?
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    It's been garbage for years mate. Not sure what you expect on here as the white knights will defend it until the cows come home, no matter how awful it is lmao.
    Different opinions isn't a thing, right. Someone with a different opinion is a white knight. Or a cow.

    I love the fact that people like the guy I quoted, who feels the game has been garbage for years, still posts on this forum. How addicted can one be to a game..
    Hi

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zhorteye View Post
    So.. heres some of my viewpoints..
    1: Classes arent interesting anymore: Instead of giving classes unique things, and building all relevant power into the class itself, Blizzard has since Legion gone with the approach of "borrowing" power to the players through various systems (artifacts, Corruption, Heart of Azeroth (including the armor pieces) and now the covenant system.. And to me this just doesnt feel fun..
    There is barely any borrowed power in Shadowlands at the moment. The covenant abilities are not that impactful or change people's rotations much or at all.

    2: Gearing is an issue: Now. i know blizzard tried to fix this with the 9.0.5 change of upgrading m+ gear, but i'm a firm believer that this was the wrong approach.. i personally would've much prefered a way of "targeting" a piece of gear over time, which is the best it can be when you get it, rather than having to get a piece, and upgrade it to make it better.. On this front, i much prefered the WoTLK way of gearing where You had different difficulties of the same content (as you do now) but you also has badges to hand in to get a piece of gear which was mostly a "in between the difficulties" scaled item..
    Personal preference, I suppose? I don't have much of an issue with the valor system as it currently exists, but then I'm already at a gear level where valor is not particularly relevant anymore either to begin with.

    3 (and this is mostly just a personal one i think) Maybe Its just getting old?. The game is 16 years old.. And theres not been much of a "Shift" in how the game works for the past what.. 6-7 years? blizzard seems to be stuck on the same ideas and systems rather than trying to be innovative.. and it just doesnt work for me anymore.. :/ Maybe blizzard has become too comfortable in their current space with no "real" competitors on the MMO market.. idk..
    It's a bit strange that on one hand you complain that the game doesn't feel the same anymore, but then in point 3 you accuse them of not doing anything new. Those arguments conflict a bit at first glance.

    I do however admit that Blizzard is always super-careful in their game design with WoW. Blizzard used to be known for being "innovative" (read: combining the best features of other popular games in the genre and putting their own spin on it). But part of that is because the playerbase is never happy with the careful changes, so they never get the go-ahead or the courage to take their careful concepts and to go full-out with them either.

    For example: Covenants to me feel almost like a careful testing ground for sub-classes, but since the playerbase is complaining about a single different sub-ability to choose from already they're probably currently also scratching the concept of sub-classes to begin with (which would basically be conceptually similar to covenants except for a lot more abilities than just one).
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  8. #8
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Same thing can be said about the people who stick around and trash a game they supposedly hate, if you hate the game so much why not move on?
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Different opinions isn't a thing, right. Someone with a different opinion is a white knight. Or a cow.

    I love the fact that people like the guy I quoted, who feels the game has been garbage for years, still posts on this forum. How addicted can one be to a game..
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  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Same thing can be said about the people who stick around and trash a game they supposedly hate, if you hate the game so much why not move on?
    I just checked his post history. Oof. Probably not worth wasting time on him.
    Hi

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
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    The only issue i have with the game is the shitshow of borrowed powers, followers and systems like covenants in general. The story developed to the peak of absurdity. It's fun for a while but i don't see any point in the future where you will get the good old warcraft feeling back.
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  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Different opinions isn't a thing, right. Someone with a different opinion is a white knight. Or a cow.

    I love the fact that people like the guy I quoted, who feels the game has been garbage for years, still posts on this forum. How addicted can one be to a game..
    thats a troll account, only writing one trash sentence into every discussion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Change is what kept this game popular troughout the years. (Before anyone mentions "why do so many ppl play classic then": its not the same thing to revisit a game u liked or play classic with for 16 years with the same type of difficulty, class design mentality etc.) Yes everytime the ANYTHING changes some ppl will start to feel like "this isnt what i fell in love with", but its never a bad thing and reverting things is worse tbh. I'm in an active guild where only me and another guy out of 25+ ppl played before MoP with most ppl started playing after Legion.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord
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    i really miss every min maxing aspect, or atm ANY min maxing aspect.

    that is why i play less and less wow... min maxing was the only thing that hold me

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by zhorteye View Post
    As someone who's played every iteration of World of Warcraft, in my opinion, the game has just changed too much over the years, and i'd like to hear peoples thoughts on this..
    I agree the game as change. "Changed too much" is really subjective in my opinion. I personally like how the game has changed in many aspects, so I don't think it's "too much". Not only the game has changed, but people changed too, especially people playing from the start. 15+ years is a lot in the life of anyone, and it's not the game's fault for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhorteye View Post
    1: Classes arent interesting anymore: Instead of giving classes unique things, and building all relevant power into the class itself, Blizzard has since Legion gone with the approach of "borrowing" power to the players through various systems (artifacts, Corruption, Heart of Azeroth (including the armor pieces) and now the covenant system.. And to me this just doesnt feel fun..
    I do agree that most classes lost unique aspects along the way, due to balancing and simplicity, but I don't think classes aren't intersting right now. I have most classes as alts and I find that the gameplay is very different with each character that I play. I do agree that the game could benefit from having more unique aspects to each class, abilities and perks, but I think, honestly, that the game is hold back by the "community" in some form, especially with the mindset of "optimization" we see a lot now in the game. And even if a lot of people don't play like that, it's still impact a lot of group content, in pugs or in more competitive guilds. Being left on the side of the road not because you play the wrong class but because other people play the right ones, is not fun. Back in Vanilla or TBC, some classes or specs weren't playable because of this. It's as bad for the game and for players as not having more unique things.

    On a side-note, I disagree with borrowing power being the source of all evil. I think Covenants are more than fine and add unique gameplay to each class/spec without replacing too much of the core gameplay. Artifact weapons was the most interesting addition to the gameplay in a while, briging back a more old school type of talent tree and being tied to your character in more than one way. I loved having my weapon evolve and get more powerful as I played. Some borrowed power can be a problem, Azerite and Corruption were poorly designed and implemented, but I think people made too much of a big deal out of it. It never prevented me to play my class in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhorteye View Post
    2: Gearing is an issue: Now. i know blizzard tried to fix this with the 9.0.5 change of upgrading m+ gear, but i'm a firm believer that this was the wrong approach.. i personally would've much prefered a way of "targeting" a piece of gear over time, which is the best it can be when you get it, rather than having to get a piece, and upgrade it to make it better.. On this front, i much prefered the WoTLK way of gearing where You had different difficulties of the same content (as you do now) but you also has badges to hand in to get a piece of gear which was mostly a "in between the difficulties" scaled item..
    I think badges and tokens on top of other badges and tokens is a mistake. I want the excitment of looting a piece of gear from the boss I've just killed, not loot its body for coins I need to use in the capital city. While I get the covenience of a system like this, and I remember it making it easier to gear, it just can't replace the feeling of finally getting that one tier piece from that one boss you killed for weeks.

    I think the issue with gearing is both on the game and on player expectation/entitlement. Blizzard is clearly trying to slow down the pace of the game, with gearing being much slower, with covenant content being gated and anima slow to gather (as much as it's frustrating, even to me). If anything, they're trying to go back to Vanilla/TBC gameplay loop regarding gearing, with PVE gear in dungeons/raids being sparse, PVP gear with vendors. Upgradable items and the Vault are only systems trying to mitigate bad luck with a parallel progression system for gear, without taking too much away from the main content. Players should understand that and manage their expectations, as it's a different direction from the past few expansions.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhorteye View Post
    3 (and this is mostly just a personal one i think) Maybe Its just getting old?. The game is 16 years old.. And theres not been much of a "Shift" in how the game works for the past what.. 6-7 years? blizzard seems to be stuck on the same ideas and systems rather than trying to be innovative.. and it just doesnt work for me anymore.. :/ Maybe blizzard has become too comfortable in their current space with no "real" competitors on the MMO market.. idk..
    I disagree with you, because I think Blizzard took big risks each expansion. Artifacts weapons were a big gamble, sending us to Argus was a unique and imprevisible move, much like Covenants are a new fondation for a lot of new systems, like renown and soul-binds, that are clearly tests on system that can be iterated upon later on. Most systems in covenants, like the Ember Court, the Path of Ascension or the Abomination factory are not that original but unique to WoW in a way that it shows us the devs are exploring tons of new gameplay ideas that could be incorporated to the game more and more, keeping things fresh.

    The things is, people are both expecting the game to "stay the same at its core" and also "keep evolving and be innovative, not become stale", and while the two are possible, it's much in the eye of the player that judgment is passed. I do think the game is the same at its core and it's obvious, at least to me, that the additions to the game have been great and innovative. It can be the opposite for some players, because we don't all seek the same thing in the game, don't enjoy the same aspects, gameplay, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhorteye View Post
    I love world of warcraft. its been a part of my life for 16 years (granted, im only turning 25 this year) so its been with me for basicly all my life.. Its hard for me to just quit, but at the same time, I'm feeling the need for a change.. I strongly prefer MMO's in my gaming session, I've played mostly all of them, but theres just not anything "new and exciting" out there as of right now.. Which i feel the space needs..
    I do agree that the MMORPG landscape is stale at the moment, WoW and FF being the only one relevant, but I disagree regarding your "MMO" comment. MMO stand for massively multiplayer online, and it's not just RPG. Battle royal type of games, GTA Online or even Rust are MMO type games in a way, because of player interaction, through combat, role-play or else. Maybe you want to play online with people, but WoW and RPGs are not the only way to do that. Maybe explore some other type of MMO ?

  14. #14
    Wow is just to old there is nothing new about it. I clear hc a couple of times when a new raid release do some +15 for season mount then stop playing. The mmo part is kinda dead with wow its more instanced group content.

    An active world is what mmos is about seing hundred people running around in every zone. Zones need event like other mmos have makes people group and farm.

    Outside of mythic+ and raids wow is a dead game.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by froschhure View Post
    i really miss every min maxing aspect, or atm ANY min maxing aspect.

    that is why i play less and less wow... min maxing was the only thing that hold me
    what do you even mean, min maxing is everywhere LOL.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildpantz View Post
    Wow is just to old there is nothing new about it. I clear hc a couple of times when a new raid release do some +15 for season mount then stop playing. The mmo part is kinda dead with wow its more instanced group content.

    An active world is what mmos is about seing hundred people running around in every zone. Zones need event like other mmos have makes people group and farm.

    Outside of mythic+ and raids wow is a dead game.
    This is more or less the same approach I have with it. I play it a bit when there is new content and then just drop off because everything just feels meaningless.

  17. #17
    Of course it does not feel the same. But with all the people who are interested in the current game, I don't think it should feel the same again. You're not target audience anymore OP, it happens. I'm not either, and that's ok.

  18. #18
    M+ is a big part of it.

    Making dungeons relevant again throughout an expac was a great idea, making them timed leading to try-hard min-maxing was an awful idea.

    I guess? This is an unpopular opinion, which is baffling. I guess your typical gamer is just getting more immune to toxicity over the years. I'm not.

  19. #19
    I loved SL at launch and for a while after. Got suddenly very bored of it and stopped playing. I actuallt returned a week ago to level my Highmountain Tauren Druid for heritage armor, cause my sub is still active(ends in 6 days). I'll reach 50 today and my play was to then level my HM Shaman to 60.

    Whats making me hesitate on doing that, is knowing all the boring shit I gotta do once I reach 60. I cant just jump in and farm gear via dungeons/raids/pvp. I gotta do campaign story, thorgast(oh god this is the worst part) and get conduits.

    Usually i've saved leveling alts until later in a xpac. This time around i've started leveling alts quite quickly. Then when I reach 60 i'll just park them cause I cant be bothered with the farms i've done on four(one for each covenant) characters already.

    im probably going to land on not resubbing and wait for 9.1. See no reason whatsoever to keep on playing right now after getting heritage. We are talking about several months before the new patch comes out. If I(and others) keep on playing now, we will just end up hating the game.

    Better take a break and return at a later stage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    M+ is a big part of it.

    Making dungeons relevant again throughout an expac was a great idea, making them timed leading to try-hard min-maxing was an awful idea.

    I guess? This is an unpopular opinion, which is baffling. I guess your typical gamer is just getting more immune to toxicity over the years. I'm not.
    You are not alone, I agree 100% with you. It was a nice feature at first, now its not. Doing dungeons was something I did alot in previous years, not so much anymore.

  20. #20
    A big factor is the player base. You grow older, your tastes and expectations change. You started when you were 9 years old. Everything is magical at that age. I remember exploring Elwynn Forest for the first time when I was 13 or so. Killing murlocs for gold felt like an adventure.

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