About Crucifixes, Pentagrams

[Santti]

While powerful imagery, I'd prefer if they did their own stuff. The game is already trying to sell an idea that hell is all kinds of different from what we usually imagine it to be. There are great many similarities for sure, but it's still very much it's own thing. So it only makes sense to use more unique and more creative iconography, rather than the same ones we always see when anything with "hell" is involved.

And things like Crucifixes make even less sense to have in the game. There is no mention of Jesus or Christianity, anywhere. Cross is simple enough, that it's believable to exist without Christianity, but a Crucifix is not a good idea without the religion, me thinks.

[rowaasr13]

For example, if you recall the image in the game (Diablo 1) of a child on an Altar that has been exsanguinated by a priest of faith endowed with crucifix's on his sash, it would have a less impactful meaning if the sash had the Nike symbol.

And where exactly you get idea it was "impactful only thank to that"? Newsflash: most people don't give a single fuck about crosses and any other Christian imagery - cross and all alikes simply means a shortcut to "some religious order". It would be EXACTLY AS impactful if it was circle, square or fucking whatever. Also for same reason crosses and pentagrams are not associated exclusively with Abrahamic religions for many, but work simply as random mysticism symbol that can be both "good" and "bad".

Certain countries take a hard line of using religious imagery in certain connotations.

List a few that matter for sales and that don't have hundreds of games with Christian/Satanic imagery on sale already. This is just same grade of stupid hearsay as "no skeletons in Chinese games".

They just evolved to more original fantasy so they can do whatever without being constrained. For same reason there are no more "God" and "archangels" in Warcraft after first one.

[TirielWoW]

I'll be honest - I don't understand at all being mad because a developer removes real-world symbolism and iconography for faiths that literally don't exist in their game world and replaces them with custom/new iconography that is for religions that do exist in their game world.

Christianity doesn't exist in Sanctuary. Neither does Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, Astaru, or any other real world religion you want to name. Sanctuary has its own spiritual traditions and faiths, and I would much rather have symbolism connected to those faiths than real-world religious iconography ripped off and shoved into a game with literally no in-world connection to those symbols.

[arandomuser]

the devs literally said they werent censored it was a creative decision they had full control over

[ManOluck]

I'll be honest - I don't understand at all being mad because a developer removes real-world symbolism and iconography for faiths that literally don't exist in their game world and replaces them with custom/new iconography that is for religions that do exist in their game world.

Christianity doesn't exist in Sanctuary. Neither does Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, Astaru, or any other real world religion you want to name. Sanctuary has its own spiritual traditions and faiths, and I would much rather have symbolism connected to those faiths than real-world religious iconography ripped off and shoved into a game with literally no in-world connection to those symbols.

I think you're missing the point. These symbols have such deep emotional impact of Good vs Evil and was only retconned out in Diablo 3. May I add, was one of the most criticized additions to the series especially for its watered down tone and switch away from classic gothic horror.

[StillMcfuu]

I agree the new symbols are pretty generic. Although, I firmly believe the original symbolism adds , albeit a subconscious, emotional impact that cannot be recreated with a creative take. There's just to much history behind these symbols to ignore this fact.


For example, if you recall the image in the game (Diablo 1) of a child on an Altar that has been exsanguinated by a priest of faith endowed with crucifix's on his sash, it would have a less impactful meaning if the sash had the Nike symbol.

But you've admitted that you recognize the D3 and D4 versions of symbols, even while they are being hidden. Which means that the symbology and meaning is still present.

[Gaidax]

I mean, it's really just about to not invoke RL religious symbols and regalia when there is no real need for it... or heck no real sense in it.

It's not like Archbishop Lazarus was Christian (or posing as one) anyway. There is no Christianity in world of Sanctuary either, so the game lore evolved to have its own lore and symbols, instead of low effort piggybacking on RL stuff.

Back in them D1 days, it was an easy way out to slap some pentagrams and shit and make it easily associated with with well known religious motifs of hell. It was an "instant lore" stuff for simple games. Since then things evolved a lot.

[A Chozo]

if you play diablo 1, the whole game is littered with upside down crosses and people cruxified upside down. Hell they're even burning.

Yes, 25 years ago

As I said, times changed, they elaborated on the franchise and decided to make their own religious symbols while at the same time avoiding modern problems of games being censored due to the use of real-world religious symbols

Nothing wrong with any of that.

[Wangming]

I don't think DIII would have been a better game with more pentagrams. The whole concept of the game was flawed.

[deenman]

Because of the religious connection and when it comes to religion there's still quite a bit of people that take that shit super seriously. If you find that fake...look at the Bible Belt and you'll get what I mean. Personally pentagrams and such don't really make the franchise better, nor will I miss them either. Its just a religious symbol we're used to.

haha,the bible belt alredy thinks diablo is satanic,they think harry potter is,a few years ago they LITERALY were thinking reading ANY book is satanic because only the clergy can read the bible...

a few extra symbols isnt going to make or break diablo in their minds

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, 25 years ago

As I said, times changed, they elaborated on the franchise and decided to make their own religious symbols while at the same time avoiding modern problems of games being censored due to the use of real-world religious symbols

Nothing wrong with any of that.

this makes pretty good sense actualy,its more interesting and cool to make up your own religion and symbols than use real world stuff,creativity wise it can lead to better stuff and as you say avoid a little bit of the angry mobs

[ro9ue]

The very basic pentagram in D1 looks cheesy and awkward because its a 1 to 1 copy of a prevalent icon in real life.

The new unique stuff is way cooler. It's still inspired by the pentagram and uses those visual cues to evoke the same impressions, but keeps you immersed in their world and it looks like it belongs there.

They're trying to make the world of Diablo it's own thing and not just direct rips from real life religion.

[Fencers]

There really isn't going to be any hardcore religious iconography in a Diablo game anymore. I agree, it added a certain verisimilitude to the original D1 and D2. Though times change and companies have to reposition their products all the time.

[Thestrawman]

What do you think?

I think you're an idiot who doesn't know what censorship is and are trying to be pissy about something that no one else cares about.

[SirBeef]

If you noticed when playing Diablo 3, there were almost no images of a pentagrams or actual crosses (Babylonian era) . In Diablo 3, and perhaps Diablo 4, these powerful images are censored to be shells of their true image as indicated below:





Now compare that to Diablo 1





Or Diablo 2





There is something to be said about these iconic images. In Diablo 1 you would see burning upside down crucifixes and other hellish images that could be linked to real world culture. I feel these images add a sense of horror that cannot be replicated by "fleshing out" a new world and creating "stylized" gothic images. I personally feel censorship does not belong in a game like diablo if they want to recreate a sense of horror and dread of the previous games.

What do you think?

I think the first two games were a product of 90s edginess and those simple images were easier to get the point across. They have no relationship to actual earthbound religions within the games. I'd rather they create their own iconography. Plenty is detailed in the books.

This really has nothing to do about censorship, Blizzard even claimed so. Either way, it's just a game, and if they decide to add pentagram and crosses back, that is thier choice.

[Watchers]

Yes, 25 years ago

As I said, times changed, they elaborated on the franchise and decided to make their own religious symbols while at the same time avoiding modern problems of games being censored due to the use of real-world religious symbols

Nothing wrong with any of that.

all wrong:

they lost all the gothic, real horror of diablo 1 and 2.

as everything nowdays.. all rainbows and happyness.

[Illusions]

all wrong:

they lost all the gothic, real horror of diablo 1 and 2.

as everything nowdays.. all rainbows and happyness.

If you think re-designing (and arguably improving on) basic pentagrams that look just silly in the examples given by OP is losing the gothic horror of the original games, then I'm not sure how delusional you really are.

I never really understood the problem with Diablo 3's artistic direction, you had plenty of gore, doom and gloom there. If you needed everything to be annoyingly dark, just turn your monitor gamma down lol.

[Local Skinwalker]

going into different directions, Creatively and narratively, is the reason here
D3 was a departure from darker themes of D2 including imagery, and one of the prime Directions they are taking for D4 (which is also a marketing factor ) is a step back into the dark, gothic fantasy with that Imagery

[epLe]

As most of the conceptual design in the diablo franchise is atleast partly based on christian lore, Blizzard is even violating its own legacy by such selfcensorship.