does the blood elf narrative and the aesthetic blood elf dominate the horde?

[AcidicSyn]

we agree on that, but that's not the thread question. Do you think that the aesthetics and narrative of the horde is mainly dominated by the blood elves?

Nope and nope.

[Thage]

This is true though when you think it over with how the grand majority of the horde is belf it is kinda weird.

Player numbers are rarely indicative of in-lore population. The blood elves are 10% of their original population, less so when you consider elves most likely evolved a low birthrate to compensate for their longevity (else you'd collapse the local ecosystem under the strain of overpopulation in short order), and the attrition caused by high elf defectors, the void elf exiles/defectors, and those lost in battle over the multiple wars the blood elves have participated in since joining the Horde, yet they're the most popular player race.

Void elves, as previously noted, are a fraction of a fraction of the original high elf populace, but even with the second wave of less-corrupted void elves coming from the ranks of high elves and blood elf dissidents, they're still a far stronger showing in the playerbase than their lore numbers would support. The same is true of draenei, whose entire species fit on a single ship and who were intitially in a survival scenario after the Exodar crashed--and again, they've suffered repeat losses since joining the Alliance, shrinking their numbers further.

This is all part and parcel of a major problem with Blizzard's writing: entire armies and civilian populations are woven out of thin air at the drop of a hat with no explanation where the various races and factions can continue fielding these numbers in back-to-back wars. Every race on Azeroth should be dangerously depopulated by this point, and yet every war, the Alliance and Horde can field armies that put the Battle of Pelennor Fields to shame in terms of sheer size.

[LordVargK]

The playerbase of the Horde is 50% BElf, they are obviously the dominant race there. But those numbers have nothing to do with the lore. Since Thrall the Horde was Red Alliance anyways, so BElfs joining changed nothing for them, it only brought Alliance players to the Horde side, because the Horde had the most beautiful race in the game then. But combine BElfs with the Thrall-ish Horde and you get Alliance, just with mudhuts. Which is what we have now.
The Horde should have been a band of outcasts, which bond together to ensure their survival. Thrall made them into a real faction but they were mindless minions of their warchief: Red Alliance with Thrall/Voljin in the lead and bloodthirsty warmongers under Sylvanas and Garrosh (well, the orcs at least). Now Thrall is leading once again, so Red Alliance it is.

[Thage]

Alliance centers Human, Horde centers Orc. Then each side has what I call "prime" races as well. Alliance its Dwarf and Night Elf. Horde it is Troll and MooCow. Once you fall away from these its very hit or miss. Blood Elfs for example are pretty big in the two zones that feature them for their start. Then they have a few spots here or there, but really not much more than that.

Blood Elfs always felt like they were more about themselves and pretty much joined the horde out of not wanting to get over run by the alliance and not really because they feel they are really part of the family. I mean for all intensive purposes they were part of the Alliance for a long time until a loony undead human prince came through and wrecked them for their magic stuff and then a few jerkass human commanders rolled though blaming them for the situation.

It wasn't so much that they were worried about getting overrun by the Alliance. The blood elves were listening to ambassadors from both factions until it turned out the Alliance sent spies and saboteurs; the night elves in particular sent scouts in Eversong and detachments of Sentinels who attacked blood elves on sight in the Ghostlands and showed little to no interest in working on the Scourge problem in the area, while the Horde hustled and helped with (at the time) no indication that there were strings attached. Just like the Nightborne situation, the blood elves' situation was one where a significant diplomatic flub was juxtaposed against the other faction going the extra mile to prove their good intentions, making the choice easy.

It's easy to understand the blood elves' more recent habit of side-eyeing the Alliance considering the two times Lor'themar gave legitimate thought to rejoining the Alliance, he got burned. First he reached out to them and they sent a spy and a detachment of Sentinels, then, much later, he was talking with Varian about defecting to get the hell away from Garrosh, and Jaina threw the Sunreavers in prison without trial on some fairly-shaky-at-the-time evidence (something most blood elves are probably old enough to remember, Garithos had done to Kael'thas and his men, with them scheduled for a quick execution, and it seems that to date Dalaran still has those Sunreavers held without trial given the Sunreavers siding with Sylvanas against Jaina in the "free Baine" scenario).

[LordVargK]

It's easy to understand the blood elves' more recent habit of side-eyeing the Alliance considering the two times Lor'themar gave legitimate thought to rejoining the Alliance, he got burned. First he reached out to them and they sent a spy and a detachment of Sentinels, then, much later, he was talking with Varian about defecting to get the hell away from Garrosh, and Jaina threw the Sunreavers in prison without trial on some fairly-shaky-at-the-time evidence.

Well, since the BElfs were given to the Horde in TBC you can't have any loyalty changes anymore. An MMO is way more restrictive in that regard, because lore must follow gameplay. Lifting the faction barrier would solve this problem btw, because then players don't belong to any side anymore and may be treated as individuals rather than being treated by their affiliation.

[Powerogue]

I've never once gotten that impression. Now, night elves on the alliance and in general have gotten high representation dating back to Legion over the other alliance races, but I haven't seen anything comparable Horde-side. We saw blood elves play a role in saving Suramar and recruiting the nightborne in Legion, but that expansion mostly focused on the soon to be allied races, night elves, draenei, and Khadgar.

Then BFA had big faction focuses, alliance side seeing emphasis on humans, gnomes, and night elves again. Horde side mainly focusing on Saurfang (orc), Thrall (orc), Zappy (troll), Baine (tauren) and Sylvanas (forsaken). The blood elves were present but not in a main story focus.

Then this expansion we have more night elf focus on Tyrande and I guess you could count the return of Kael'thas as more BE focus? He's not leading the blood elves anymore though, and is mostly focused on himself and his own vengeance. Apparently the blood elves have been content moving on without him, not even sending letters. He's been checking his mailbox in Revendreth all expansion, nothing. </3

[Thage]

Well, since the BElfs were given to the Horde in TBC you can't have any loyalty changes anymore. An MMO is way more restrictive in that regard, because lore must follow gameplay. Lifting the faction barrier would solve this problem btw, because then players don't belong to any side anymore and may be treated as individuals rather than being treated by their affiliation.

Yeah, but you're talking game mechanics. From a Watsonian standpoint, every time Lor'themar was looking at defecting, he got nothing but grief for his trouble. Yes, this is because the writers had to contrive reasons to keep the blood elves--notorious fair-weather friends throughout their history--with the Horde because of the game mechanics, but Watson is never aware Doyle is steering events with his pen.

[Sunderella]

I am one of those that barely reads any quest text so I might have missed it, but when did Blood Elves become the Horde absolute protagonists? Other than in BC, I remember Wrath being about Orcs and Forsaken, CATA was about Thralls power reaching over 9000, in MOP there was the Thunder Isle patch and thats about it. WoD had Liandrin crossing the Dark Portal and thats pretty much it. In Legion they poached the Nightborne and they did nothing on BfA

[LordVargK]

Yeah, but you're talking game mechanics. From a Watsonian standpoint, every time Lor'themar was looking at defecting, he got nothing but grief for his trouble. Yes, this is because the writers had to contrive reasons to keep the blood elves--notorious fair-weather friends throughout their history--with the Horde because of the game mechanics, but Watson is never aware Doyle is steering events with his pen.

That is of course true. My point is, that we can't rely on the past lore in WoW to have a lasting effect. If the gameplay circumstances change, the lore must follow, regardless what events happened before. It sadly makes the lore (as in faction interactions) very static and predictable. I wonder if this turns around at some point, in that the writers need some creative space and thus gameplay will change. Like it technically should be in an RPG. It would be a nice change of things

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Obviously not. Orcs do.

[Electric Lighter]

Player numbers are rarely indicative of in-lore population. The blood elves are 10% of their original population, less so when you consider elves most likely evolved a low birthrate to compensate for their longevity (else you'd collapse the local ecosystem under the strain of overpopulation in short order), and the attrition caused by high elf defectors, the void elf exiles/defectors, and those lost in battle over the multiple wars the blood elves have participated in since joining the Horde, yet they're the most popular player race.

Void elves, as previously noted, are a fraction of a fraction of the original high elf populace, but even with the second wave of less-corrupted void elves coming from the ranks of high elves and blood elf dissidents, they're still a far stronger showing in the playerbase than their lore numbers would support. The same is true of draenei, whose entire species fit on a single ship and who were intitially in a survival scenario after the Exodar crashed--and again, they've suffered repeat losses since joining the Alliance, shrinking their numbers further.

This is all part and parcel of a major problem with Blizzard's writing: entire armies and civilian populations are woven out of thin air at the drop of a hat with no explanation where the various races and factions can continue fielding these numbers in back-to-back wars. Every race on Azeroth should be dangerously depopulated by this point, and yet every war, the Alliance and Horde can field armies that put the Battle of Pelennor Fields to shame in terms of sheer size.

Yeah I do recall that lore wise the entire void elf race appeared to fight during the undercity siege... its why i don't or at least try not to follow blizzards lore to closely. Numbers mean nothing.

[Amaterasu65]

I think the Blood Elves' role in the Horde (as well as their aesthetic) will be jeopardized by the introduction of the Nightborne in the Horde. They have very similar theme and style, so the spotlight of the magical, elegant, cocky and aristocratic elf thematic needs to be shared from now on. So neither NB or BE will ever get the sole spotlight (especially after the Lor'themar x Thalyssra thingie). I also feel Blizzard gave more attention to Thalyssra than Lor'themar in BFA tbh, but that's a personal take.

[Rhlor]

I think the Blood Elves' role in the Horde (as well as their aesthetic) will be jeopardized by the introduction of the Nightborne in the Horde. They have very similar theme and style, so the spotlight of the magical, elegant, cocky and aristocratic elf thematic needs to be shared from now on. So neither NB or BE will ever get the sole spotlight (especially after the Lor'themar x Thalyssra thingie). I also feel Blizzard gave more attention to Thalyssra than Lor'themar in BFA tbh, but that's a personal take.

This does not bother me I like to see the elves of the horde work together!

[Tanaria]

I wouldn't worry too much about what Ravenmoon says anymore.

His RP wishes are nothing more than headcanon and twists of the lore, he wants to suit his agenda. He honestly thinks that Blizzard will make 4 races of the Horde (Nightborne, Forsaken, Blood Elves and Highmountain Tauren), completely homeless and 3 of those be completely forgotten by Blizzard, because -ma Alliance focus-.

Blood Elves are such a big race now. In every expansion, Blizzard have implemented them and in recent times, the main initial branch of Sin'dorei groups are the Reliquary.

[Cosmic Janitor]

No one who actually plays horde believes that belfs dominate anything, other than player models ofc because they are the only ones on horde that aren't shite. I've been staring at fucking red painted tents out of animal hides and spikes for 15+ years...

Edit: Also Ravenmoon, lol.

[Rhlor]

No one who actually plays horde believes that belfs dominate anything, other than player models ofc because they are the only ones on horde that aren't shite. I've been staring at fucking red painted tents out of animal hides and spikes for 15+ years...

Edit: Also Ravenmoon, lol.

it's complete madness right? no one absolutely no one except ravenmoon can believe something as ridiculous as this. I would like to see a cinematic with lor'themar sometime or see blood elves in a cinematic!

[Zandalarian Paladin]

TBH the Horde feels like it focus too much on the Orcs and its leadership. Recently, the Forsaken received a bit of focus with the Sylvanas arc, but it was short-lived.

BEs haven't received any sort of focus since the Isle of Thunder. I don't consider Lor'themar in the underwater zone to be actually meaningful for the blood elves at large, it was more of a character arc.

[Santas]

In actual lore BE's are pretty much non-existent, now if we're talking about how many people play the race, well, looking at something like 80% LOL. All I see lately is barefoot female blood elves, apparently people rolling them have a foot fetish. Just a funny observation.

[Rhlor]

In actual lore BE's are pretty much non-existent, now if we're talking about how many people play the race, well, looking at something like 80% LOL. All I see lately is barefoot female blood elves, apparently people rolling them have a foot fetish. Just a funny observation.

we are talking about aesthetics and narrative.

Do you think that in the last decade or more the centers used by the horde have blood elf aesthetics? do you think the lore of the horde is centered on the blood elves? do you think blood elves characters like lorthemar, rommath or halduron have been the protagonists of lore of the horde?

[HateTrain]

I mean, I can't even remember the last NEW settlement that was Belf themed...Wrath?