"That guy that u just know is gonna leave"

[Nobleshield]

Although I think banning damage meters and even bringing it up results in a ban is a bit much. FF14 definitely took the moderation too far.

They did, but I'd rather have that than WoW's "link meters for a low level dungeons and call someone out" stuff. FFXIV dungeons have timers but I don't know what happens if it runs out, since they are so generous (a big issue I think with M+, the timer should be high enough that unless you're just faffing around it should be a non-issue to time).

[oplawlz]

You see this in literally every competitive game. The reason I advocate bans for toxic people doesn't have anything to do with what they say: it's because they're almost always the problem in the group and are too stubborn/conceited to recognize it. Just shut up and do your best, knuckle draggers.

[Zig Zug]

this goes both ways.

OP is also desribing himself and his group as bestest players evaaar while we will never know how many fuck ups they did have regardless of their .io score.

.

No he's not, lol.

[oplawlz]

Although I think banning damage meters and even bringing it up results in a ban is a bit much. FF14 definitely took the moderation too far.

Banning is weird, I think wow should just disable it's api and encrypt data flow in game so addons can't see what anyone but the player themselves are doing. No more armory, no more achievements, no inspecting other players.

[Nobleshield]

Banning is weird, I think wow should just disable it's api and encrypt data flow in game so addons can't see what anyone but the player themselves are doing. No more armory, no more achievements, no inspecting other players.

tbh I think wow should just disable most of the API and wipe out most addons. THey can and should add more visual cues to fights so you don't need addons for boss encounters, and while it's not that great there's nothing wrong with the default UI and it's perfectly usable (I would very much miss WeakAuras though) at all levels of content.

[aceperson]

Then there's "That guy". He litearlly almost died on every single big pull we did if not to Spiteful due to his own stupidity . Every single pack he kept flaming either me (tank ) or the healer (2.1k holy pally ). He even ate a bunch of pride hits but whatever.

this is one of the reasons i used the elitismhelper addon. while i mainly use it to see when i screw up, the addon tends to also keep idiots who can't dodge mechanics quiet as well. the only people who tend to speak up are those with a fragile ego and can't understand the fact they are bad.

[ellieg]

this is one of the reasons i used the elitismhelper addon. while i mainly use it to see when i screw up, the addon tends to also keep idiots who can't dodge mechanics quiet as well. the only people who tend to speak up are those with a fragile ego and can't understand the fact they are bad.

If u do 15s and up, it just makes u look like a noob if u have that addon posting to chat. At that level players know what's hitting them and u shld too. If im in sanguine depths and there's traps on the ground, mist dancer cluster fuck all over the place, and 3+ storming affix whirling about, I dont need an addon letting me know that I purposefully jumped into the storming cause it was the least damaging option.

[Dudenoso]

Just one reason out of about a dozen or so that I have always abhorred M+, and would like to see it removed entirely from the game.

From what little I played during Legion, I would consider coming back for M+. If they ditched the timer.

[DennisIo]

yeah sure, and I dont really care that much about it. Its just weird how people just expects everyone in the group to fall in line with how to complete the dungeon without even uttering a word.

Just one reason out of about a dozen or so that I have always abhorred M+, and would like to see it removed entirely from the game.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I abhor transmog, RP and rated PvP, but unlike you I can accept that other people can and do find stuff fun that I don't find fun, so I don't demand that it get removed.

Odd...you're acting as if I demanded it be removed, which leads me to believe that your reading comprehension has failed you. "I would like to see it removed" isn't a demand, particularly considering the location of the post (mmo-champion forums).

Context matters, and considering the context I think it is rather apparent it was at the most a request (which makes little sense, 'cause these aren't the official forums), and more obviously it is a wish.

If I said I would like to have a million dollars, would you also accuse me of demanding a million dollars in this context? Please take context into account prior to responding.

[aceperson]

If u do 15s and up, it just makes u look like a noob if u have that addon posting to chat. At that level players know what's hitting them and u shld too. If im in sanguine depths and there's traps on the ground, mist dancer cluster fuck all over the place, and 3+ storming affix whirling about, I dont need an addon letting me know that I purposefully jumped into the storming cause it was the least damaging option.

well, if you bothered to read the what the op wrote, you'd realize that person clearly doesn't. so you look like an idiot trying to say i look like a noob.

[Twelveplay]

this goes both ways.

OP is also desribing himself and his group as bestest players evaaar while we will never know how many fuck ups they did have regardless of their .io score.

tbh if i was him i would just ignore them too , finish run laugh very hard that its me who got loot - teased them about it and leave

there is no reason to act as elitest as OP does in computer games.

I mean i never said i was good. And i did say i made a lot of fuck ups during the run.
I could say my 2.1k friend is good. At least for me .

Also i didn't act like an asshole. I just told him that he's not dying due to my tanking or the healer's healing. And my friend even showed him what he died to and stuff.
Then eventually we just stopped talking to him because if we kept talking i'm pretty sure he would rage out and would just waste our time.

So yeah say what you want , i may not be a good player or anything but i don't really see a point into being that toxic.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol its often the ppl like him that are the toxic ones and are just mad they can't get carried

I mean if it would make u happy i can link u raider IO's and stuff to see that i'm not lying and even the dude's name but what would be the point of that?
I don't have a chat log tho to actually link u.
I never said i never argued with people even called them shit whenever it's called for , i'm just saying this guy pretty sure had something else going in his life and the second he entered our dungeon he just wanted blood =)

[Thage]

Although I think banning damage meters and even bringing it up results in a ban is a bit much. FF14 definitely took the moderation too far.

They did it because they saw what a problem it was in other games and didn't want that in their game. You're not banned from using them, you're banned from posting meters and using them to harass other players.

They did, but I'd rather have that than WoW's "link meters for a low level dungeons and call someone out" stuff. FFXIV dungeons have timers but I don't know what happens if it runs out, since they are so generous (a big issue I think with M+, the timer should be high enough that unless you're just faffing around it should be a non-issue to time).

If you time out you fail the duty and have to start over, but the timers are so generous this is only an issue with some Trust/Command Mission dungeons where the NPC AI is a little iffy on certain mechanics.

[Jotaux]

Honestly, from now on when I do a +15 I won't take a pug who hasn't timed it. Been burned too many times by someone looking to get it done on time and not willing to complete the key. Was in a PF +15 just the other day, wiped on the last boss and we had a minute left on the timer. The only person without PF timed at a +15 left. Would have literally taken 4-5 minutes to run back and kill the boss.

[Kyranna]

Toxicity is everywhere in WoW, getting rid of it is such a monumental task I wouldn't know if it's even possible, let alone worth the effort. The other night in LFR I asked if there were people that didn't know the fight (Artificer), a handful of them said they didn't, I explained it quickly (2 minutes with ground markers) and it went smoothly, then some left and some joined while we were going to do Council: there had to be that guy that screamed in full caps "IT'S LFR JUST PULL" and it was silenced by everyone else, while I explained in 2 minutes what to do.

I don't know what gets into the head of some people, but it's a game, most play it for fun and these guys are the antithesis of fun.

[Omedon]

A funny story: My friends and I recently started running low end M+, and for the first time ever, the "mythic only" cosmetics were actually on our radar. We're all learning in this new reality, and one of my friends that really wants the flower crown out of Tirna Scithe asked: "Ok so the M0 is once a week and other than that it's governed by keys... so I can just look for keys running Tirna Scithe and bail after the flower crown boss?"

I had to remind them that all the loot in keys is in the chest at the end. And this is why haha!

The moral of the story is that Blizzard has done all it can or will to protect you from leavers, but as long as you're willing to PUG, there is an element of people just not seeing the time investment in the same light. As we have learned, so much of the fun of M+ is in the company, I honestly can't relate to anyone who would PUG this content. But that's just me.

[T-34]

Odd...you're acting as if I demanded it be removed, which leads me to believe that your reading comprehension has failed you. "I would like to see it removed" isn't a demand, particularly considering the location of the post (mmo-champion forums).

Context matters, and considering the context I think it is rather apparent it was at the most a request (which makes little sense, 'cause these aren't the official forums), and more obviously it is a wish.

If I said I would like to have a million dollars, would you also accuse me of demanding a million dollars in this context? Please take context into account prior to responding.

But of course you are right. "I would like to see it removed" is definitely not an expression of desire to have that content removed...
I can assure that Blizzard won't remove the most successful addition to the game since transmog.
M+ is greatly enjoyed by the part of the player base that values performance and respect for the time of your fellow gamer.
M+ is greatly abhorred by the wilfully bad that need to be carried by more competent players.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, but the timers in FFXIV are forgiving enough that you have a reasonable expectation of completing the dungeon within the timer (the timer is typically 60 to 80 minutes, depending on what kind of dungeon, trial, or raid you're doing).

That said, it isn't just (or even primarily) the timers contributing to toxicity in pugs in WoW; pugs and LFG chat have been full of abrasive assholes since I joined back in 2007. Blizzard's adamant refusal to enforce any kind of code of conduct ever since the early days is why WoW has one of the more infamously-toxic communities in gaming. It isn't the cross-realm matchmaking in groups, either, since FFXIV has that, too. It's that FFXIV punishes you if you're consistently an asshole and the community works to make sure to report people who are being assholes. Enforcing a code of conduct makes a world of difference, and this isn't to say FFXIV is without its bad eggs, it's that they're a markedly smaller portion of your daily interactions because FFXIV actually claps people who routinely show their ass. Blizzard lets things go because Bobby Kotick thinks a well-staffed customer service department is a wasteful expenditure preventing him from gold-plating his toilet.

FFXIV is the closest thing we have today to a totalitarian state simulator:
Total control of the population by the state and rampant snitching.
FFXIV's punishment of criticism encourages people to be wilfully bad and the game is a hellhole for anyone who has just an ounce of competitive desire.
FFXIV is a paradise for the toxic entitled and is the most toxic game I have ever played.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

But of course you are right. "I would like to see it removed" is definitely not an expression of desire to have that content removed...
I can assure that Blizzard won't remove the most successful addition to the game since transmog.
M+ is greatly enjoyed by the part of the player base that values performance and respect for the time of your fellow gamer.
M+ is greatly abhorred by the wilfully bad that need to be carried by more competent players.

An expression of desire is not a demand, yet you made the assertion that I was making a demand. That you're continuing with ridiculous hyperbole is just kind of...disappointing.

[Tadkins]

Yes, but the timers in FFXIV are forgiving enough that you have a reasonable expectation of completing the dungeon within the timer (the timer is typically 60 to 80 minutes, depending on what kind of dungeon, trial, or raid you're doing).

That said, it isn't just (or even primarily) the timers contributing to toxicity in pugs in WoW; pugs and LFG chat have been full of abrasive assholes since I joined back in 2007. Blizzard's adamant refusal to enforce any kind of code of conduct ever since the early days is why WoW has one of the more infamously-toxic communities in gaming. It isn't the cross-realm matchmaking in groups, either, since FFXIV has that, too. It's that FFXIV punishes you if you're consistently an asshole and the community works to make sure to report people who are being assholes. Enforcing a code of conduct makes a world of difference, and this isn't to say FFXIV is without its bad eggs, it's that they're a markedly smaller portion of your daily interactions because FFXIV actually claps people who routinely show their ass. Blizzard lets things go because Bobby Kotick thinks a well-staffed customer service department is a wasteful expenditure preventing him from gold-plating his toilet.

This is actually sounding really nice. Maybe it is time for a change and to consider FFXIV.

[Alatie]

Just one reason out of about a dozen or so that I have always abhorred M+, and would like to see it removed entirely from the game.

Yeah i also think we should remove the 1 thing that has kept wow alive for a good while now.