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  1. #1
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Exclamation Denmark to Quota Non-Westerners in Neighborhoods

    What's happening in Denmark? Why are anti-immigration policies on the rise?

    Denmark has announced plans to crack down further on disadvantaged neighbourhoods by reducing the number of “non-western” residents, scrapping the controversial term “ghetto” in its proposed legislation.
    In the bill – a review of existing legislation on combatting “parallel societies” – the interior ministry proposed that the share of residents of “non-western” origin in each neighbourhood be limited to a maximum of 30% within 10 years.
    Denmark has for years had one of Europe’s most restrictive immigration policies, which the Social Democratic prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, has continued since coming to power in June 2019.
    The interior minister, Kaare Dybvad Bek, said in a statement that too many non-western foreigners in one area “increases the risk of an emergence of religious and cultural parallel societies”.

    He said, however, that the term “ghetto”, used to designate disadvantaged neighbourhoods, would be removed from the new legislation.


    Is their version of Social Democrats more conservative?

    But the most stringent part of the plan came into force on 1 January 2020, when these areas must slash their public housing stock to no more than 40%. To achieve this within 10 years, entire blocks will be emptied and converted into private and co-operative housing, from which people on low incomes will be barred. In some cities (though not Copenhagen) the blocks will simply be demolished.

    Privatizing blocks of homes and forcing the residents out, doesn't sound like a progressive policy.

  2. #2
    It's called racism.

    Yep, that's it, it really is that simple.

  3. #3
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    The interior minister, Kaare Dybvad Bek, said in a statement that too many non-western foreigners in one area “increases the risk of an emergence of religious and cultural parallel societies”.
    Where have I heard this line before...

    Oh. Yeah. This nonsense.

    Some things never change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #4
    the current European story (look at the netherlands right now lol) :

    - classic Left is irrelevant
    - far right grows further
    - many older parties are in crisis
    - media loves the far right and normalizes them

    Is their version of Social Democrats more conservative?
    they ran focus groups with Danish People's Party voters for their immigration stance
    a couple of days ago the SD immigration minister attacked a Social Liberal proposal to support development of plant based foods as an attack on the 'Danish pork culture' and linked it to the Danish Social Liberal Party support from Danish Muslims.

    take a guess.

  5. #5
    *shrugs*
    Been trending in this direction foa a while now.
    most, if not all of Europe.

  6. #6
    We had 2 state elections in Germany last Sunday, in both the AFD lost heavily.
    Polls for general election show a ~2% loss for September (they had 12.6% in 2017, looks like 10-11% now).

    Netherlands elections are only a slight uptick from 2017 it seems, mostly (according to polls) during the earlier years of the last 4 year period. (I don't really follow that though)

    I have the feeling that support kinda reached its max and especially Brexit is actually hurting far right parties now. We will see how it will go.


    For that policy, I don't really have a negative opinion on it. I am a huge proponent of immigration if people integrate. Sadly huge communities of only immigrants are contrary to that. So splitting them up somewhat kinda is the easiest solution. As I understood, the new policy does not make immigration harder, does it? (maybe I just misread though)
    I don't know how often these communities exist, especially in other countries, but here pretty much all immigrants I know try to integrate. Then again I guess that they seclude themselves from the rest is exactly why I may never meet them.

    A former colleague of mine came from China nearly a decade ago. He worked 2 years for us and in the end was let go because even after all that time it was hard to talk in German or English. And sadly he often had problems to follow in meetings and it was hard to discuss solutions. We all liked him, so we were really sad it came to this. But his problem was that after work he went into his circle of Chinese friends (and wife) and never spoke German/English other than the few bits at work every now and then.

  7. #7
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    We had 2 state elections in Germany last Sunday, in both the AFD lost heavily.
    Polls for general election show a ~2% loss for September (they had 12.6% in 2017, looks like 10-11% now).

    Netherlands elections are only a slight uptick from 2017 it seems, mostly (according to polls) during the earlier years of the last 4 year period. (I don't really follow that though)

    I have the feeling that support kinda reached its max and especially Brexit is actually hurting far right parties now. We will see how it will go.


    For that policy, I don't really have a negative opinion on it. I am a huge proponent of immigration if people integrate. Sadly huge communities of only immigrants are contrary to that. So splitting them up somewhat kinda is the easiest solution. As I understood, the new policy does not make immigration harder, does it? (maybe I just misread though)
    I don't know how often these communities exist, especially in other countries, but here pretty much all immigrants I know try to integrate. Then again I guess that they seclude themselves from the rest is exactly why I may never meet them.

    A former colleague of mine came from China nearly a decade ago. He worked 2 years for us and in the end was let go because even after all that time it was hard to talk in German or English. And sadly he often had problems to follow in meetings and it was hard to discuss solutions. We all liked him, so we were really sad it came to this. But his problem was that after work he went into his circle of Chinese friends (and wife) and never spoke German/English other than the few bits at work every now and then.


    PVV lost a few seats this election, but bigger gains for the FvD(fascists) and JA21(split from FvD), and if the FvD really get 7 seats it means a literal nazi(Freek de Jonge) will be seated in Parliament.

    ...Which is really bad.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    PVV lost a few seats this election, but bigger gains for the FvD(fascists) and JA21(split from FvD), and if the FvD really get 7 seats it means a literal nazi(Freek de Jonge) will be seated in Parliament.

    ...Which is really bad.
    Yeah, but as I said (and this is coming from someone who doesn't follow it), polls seem to suggest they actually lost over the last few months.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...neral_election

    If we look at number from 2 to 1 year ago, it looked way worse. Even among the same pollsters. I know that polls in the end do not matter, but they can paint a picture.
    I know that the time from ~2015 to ~2019 was a pretty good period for right wingers in Europe in general. But they seem to have peaked (and in some cases like Germany already be on the down swing).
    We will have to see further, just wanna point out that we may be over the hill. Let's hope so.

  9. #9
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    They should be free to go wherever they want and I don't think the government should be deciding anything. However if the government has to make decisions then it's good to sprinkle new citizens into the native population that way they do not become self-isolating. That'll speed-up integration and help them learn about the Western way of doing things. Denmark is showing their wisdom.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-03-17 at 11:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    the current European story (look at the netherlands right now lol) :

    - classic Left is irrelevant
    - far right grows further
    - many older parties are in crisis
    - media loves the far right and normalizes them
    The current European story and also the old European story circa 1920s and '30s.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  11. #11
    "Ghettos" are bad in the way they segregate people and create social exclusion. However, how you address the issue is another thing...
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  12. #12
    Maybe I missed it but what's the plan to re-home the people forced out and how do the people in the neighborhoods that these people will be forced to move to feel about it?

  13. #13
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Where have I heard this line before...

    Oh. Yeah. This nonsense.

    Some things never change.
    Except here, they're noticing that ghettoes are starting to naturally create themselves, and they're working to combat that and integrate immigrant populations throughout the Danish city, rather than letting them collect into separated enclaves.

    I'm really not sure why people are seeing this as anti-immigrant. It's pro-integration. I take a bit of hypothetical issue with the approach, if they're forcing landowners to sell buildings to the government to force people out and restrict housing options. I think they could find a way to achieve much the same result by adjusting where they establish low-income housing, and requiring any new development to include some scattered throughout, whether it's a suburb or a high-rise apartment complex. Provide some incentives to immigrants, perhaps.


  14. #14
    Ok? Singapore already does something similar. I don't see why it's portrayed as something bad.

  15. #15
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    Ok? Singapore already does something similar. I don't see why it's portrayed as something bad.
    To a racist, its obvious why it would not be seen as a bad thing towards you.

  16. #16
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
    Maybe I missed it but what's the plan to re-home the people forced out and how do the people in the neighborhoods that these people will be forced to move to feel about it?
    We're likely talking about apartment complexes, in which case the way it usually works is the landlord tells the lease holder that the lease won't be renewed at the next renewal date, or some later date. If you're living in an apartment, you don't have any say over keeping the apartment beyond the leasing agreement. They'd likely get at least 6 months notice, more likely 1-2 years.

    At that point, "re-homing" isn't the government's responsibility. The same thing happens when a building owner wants to demolish a building and rebuild, for instance. Or sometimes, when a building is sold to a new owner who wants to refurbish the whole thing. That's just the nature of apartment buildings and how lease agreements work.

    My sister had a rental agreement with her place a few years back, and the building got sold to new owners who didn't want any more renters, converting all existing apartments into purchaseable condos. She was given the option of buying in first at the normal retail price point that she could pay by 3 or 6 months from the notice (I can't recall, but it wasn't more than 6 months), and that was it. She didn't have any grounds for an appeal to anyone over that; it was entirely within the owner's perogatives. She considered making the effort, since she had savings enough to consider a mortgage, but decided against it in the end. If she hadn't had those savings, she wouldn't have even had that option, and no way to prevent her being made to leave.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    To a racist, its obvious why it would not be seen as a bad thing towards you.
    Or, you know, you could think for a few minutes before calling everyone a racist.
    Endus and I already pointed out why this policy could make sense.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm really not sure why people are seeing this as anti-immigrant. .
    i mean they keep saying racist stuff and try to deport Syrian refugees back to Damascus

  19. #19
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    i mean they keep saying racist stuff and try to deport Syrian refugees back to Damascus
    I'll freely admit I'm not up on Danish politics and I'm just taking the policy for what it states.

    In general, the racist parties seek to create ghettoes, so they can centralize the undesirables in one place and ensure they cannot integrate properly and their servicing can be fucked with.

    Integrating immigrant or minority populations throughout a city rather than leaving them in ghettoes has been pretty standard practice in urban planning for the last 50 years or so. It's taking time to implement, because most cities aren't willing to buy mass amounts of property to push it through, but it's working.

    As a for-instance of what I'm talking about, the Regent Park revitalization in Toronto; https://storeys.com/regent-park-redu...unities-evolv/

    Regent Park was a low-income-housing development that turned into arguably the worst ghetto in the city. Rampant crime and poverty, constant problems. The revitalization plan is changing that. It's not all perfect, but nothing in this world is, but overall, it's been an award-winning program, and it isn't finished yet.


  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    In general, the racist parties seek to create ghettoes, so they can centralize the undesirables in one place and ensure they cannot integrate properly and their servicing can be fucked with.
    Id say what happened in most of europe is that enclaves always pop up beacause of work/comfort/security.

    So in the UK there are polish enclaves where polish people come into the picking/service jobs which are in the same area, polish shops spring up to cater to them and then they get stigmatised by the locals so stick together. It previously happened when indians came over for the textile industry.

    Also British people create enclaves in places like Spain, look at benidorm etc. They go over, settle, dont need the language to get by and stick together, shops pop up and dont need to integrate. If the spanish started kicking off about non native immigrant numbers they'd burn the place down. its mental.

    Ghetto is a strong term the danish brought in because they were being nasty, the stuff above is no different from what goes on anywhere else. I mean pick a country and you will see a minority group congregating.

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