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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    It actually was relatively safe for him. Everything he did was his own doing. I'm pretty sure Blizzard went on record that it basically just enhanced everything that was already there physically and mentally. So if you're not a psychopath like Garrosh you'd be fine.
    Yes it was "safe" for him because he had a resilient mind, and had been testing the stuff throughout the campaign in order to overcome the insanity effect, everyone (except Malkorok and Garrosh) who tapped into the power went into a frenzy and got themselves or their own allies killed.
    Also I was referring to the Sha in general.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Old God corruption is notorious for working long after they are dead.
    The Death Knight starting gear is Saronite armor. Apparently you don't go insane wearing it.

    The real answer as to why Saronite isn't widely used is despite how plentiful it is (there was enough to build Icecrown and necropolises out of it!) is that the writers either forgot about it, or they want to keep it as a unique aspect of the Death Knights.

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  3. #43
    Because it is "hard" to connect expansion in anyway. So they go for the "throw it away and hope they forget" plan instead.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    the burning of Teldrassil is nowhere as bad as Arthas massacres in wc3, nelf society in general didn't love that tree in first place
    I like how u remember lore well, sadly doubt blizz even thought about it, not to mention they can bullshit anytime they want
    If Anduin blade is empowered by souls absorbed since goth bitch deal with grey baldie it still won't be enough to compete with Frostmourne, but it will be strong to be real threat, Frostmourne wiped 90% of high elf society, Lordearon, Dalaran, nerubians, nagas, and at least tens of thousands in Northrend campaign (in Shattering-prelude to cataclysm the lore was clear that alliance lost tens of thousands, i think it was 30 or 40k total lost, also alliance lost a lot more than horde, but that's because alliance already outnumber horde massively, heck Stormwind alone outnumber all horde capitals combined)
    If just killing give runeblade the soul, Frostmourne is insanely powerful (the weapon they fucked in legion, i felt blizz spit on us making it 2 mini blades), powerful to degree it can rival titans, if the weapon itself must do the killing, then anduin sword should be weaker than a wet noodle since no one had it in any killing
    So since u seem u remember that part of lore better than me, must the weapon do the killing itself, or just exist in hand of leader whose faction claims the killing?
    It's a good point you make about the numbers Arthas took down must have been more than Teldrassil - in terms of total casualties. Contact seems like one method the Runeblades get stronger. We see Arthas manually take souls with Frostmourne when he cuts down Uther and Sylvanas, and the souls being taken directly. Again as well, during the Wrathgate, he kind of has to hold his sword over the body to pull out the corpse. This is pretty similar to an ability Death Knights have called Soul Reaper, where the soul, from melee, is pulled out of the body as a kind of execution move and in turn makes the Runeblade stronger by empowering runes when the soul is absorbed. With Anima in the mix, memories empowering runes could have other implications later. (Like memories we use to craft Legendaries.)

    For now, in terms of what Teldrassil means for all this, if Arthas' Runeblade was indeed filled with a lot more souls from his march being more deadly than say, the burning of Teldrassil... if Arthas' blade still was only "on par" then with Illidan's Warglaives (perhaps also constructed with souls the Legion took), we can extrapolate then that the burning of Teldrassil was only a drop in the bucket of souls in terms of what was amplifying the Mourneblade that Anduin picked up -- that all the souls and anima being collected across the Shadowlands would have been more meaningful. And perhaps at this point, Sylvanas' soul collection was more an extension to prove loyalty than really any necessary contribution to say the strength of the Mourneblade that Anduin wielded -- but maybe a lot of those souls were still used, they may not have been the bulk of it. As stands in 9.1, I believe we rescue some hundred souls or something of the Night Elves that were captured out of the ten thousand or so that were killed in Darnassus that we had an opportunity to save (and were only able to rescue like, a thousand ourselves, perhaps).

    Still, with Azeroth being heralded as such a dangerous potential Titan to rival all the greatest threats in the universe, you'd think minerals of its crust would be deadly materials, too, as it's also made of the energy of the same Titan -- just as the souls on the planet, like the Night Elves, likely come from the Spirit of Life feeding into the World Soul. As we see throughout BFA, a lot of Azerite, a kind of Arcane construct literally the lifeblood of the planet, mends wounds throughout as a kind of substitute for all the lacking Life spirit. With lacking Life essence, elementals on Azeroth are chaotic and untamed whereas on Draenor they run rampant and wild from oversaturation with Primal Life energy while others are docile from being in balance.

    The Helm of Domination can exert control over the dead, and I don't think that necessarily demands that they were killed specifically with the Runeblade, otherwise Arthas wouldn't have control over most of the Scourge as most were killed by the plagued grain. And while it's a bit unreasonable to expect Arthas to have gone over each and every corpse to reap souls, it kind of explains the jump in time where we see him a Death Knight on the horse in WC3 appearing, suddenly darker and kind of sneaking around towns to raise dead and all that. Going over bodies in graveyards to take the souls, to power the Runeblade, may have been part of the process while the plague killed and allowed him to do this easily.

    We see with the recent Mourneblades and armor of the Maw and such that souls are being used as a resource to power the armies and to be molded together into abominations and aberrations and various undead constructs. We even craft Legendaries ourselves in the same manner, using Soul Ash as part of the process. The same I think is true of the Runeblades, that they can drink of souls directly. It seems ideal if a soul is cut down by a Runeblade as it can take the soul then and there, but perhaps in the case of Arthas raising dead himself as we see in WC3, this could be said to add to his power as long as he gets in range of an undead to rend its soul. Over the huge amassed armies of undead that could be collected, the Lich King could command undead to him to offer up their souls and drink of them with his Runeblade. We see that while Arthas drank of souls like Uther, when he split off and went to Bastion, he retained a lot of memory and held onto it and was unable to let go -- the marring of his Soul still ate at him. I think it's reasonable to think that maybe the sword had been trying to take the memories, but the Light intervened there because of Uther's prayer. I think the normal process is that a Soul would normally lose its memories. And, as we see in Bastion for example with Forsaken generic souls lying around, they have their memories supposedly - which means that when the Helm loses control, the Runeblade may lose the memories as well, such that the soul inside the risen Undead would once again have all memories. This checks out, as Forsaken still remember their past lives and even remember what they did while under control of the Lich King.

    Bolvar didn't use Frostmourne in the confrontation with Sylvanas, that we know of the hammer was not forged of Frostmourne shards. We know Runeblades get more powerful as they get reforged. Still, if it were the case if Bolvar was wielding it, that would mean that Sylvanas had access to a well of souls greater still, granted by the Jailer, far more than what the Burning of Teldrassil had to offer. IF Bolvar was wielding the Shards of Frostmourne as part of the Hammer, that is. Last we saw of Frostmourne, its power was drained to cleanse the Sword inside the Wound at Silithus, and the player DK would still presumably have Froustmourne as the twin blades. But, fragments have been lost before, so it could be possible that some wound up in the possession of Bolvar or even Sylvanas.

    One extra part of the Lich King, is that during his reign he had Val'kyr under his command. So, after ascending the Frozen Throne in Northrend, Arthas didn't really have much need to necessarily go over individual corpses to pull out souls like he did at the Wrathgate, or cut them down manually as he had with Sylvanas or Uther. At the time the Scourge was building its power before and during Wrath, it could be that souls were ferried directly to the Lich King by Val'kyr in service to the Lich King from the battlefield after enemies were slain - adding to the Lich King's power. In so doing, the Lich King would be denying souls going to the Shadowlands, to be later taken by the Jailer. The Lich King would have been denying the Jailer souls even as far back as this. And as the Jailer says upcoming, the Lich King was a failure to him in some respect, that they rebelled against him and weren't under the Jailer's control.

    The Jailer has access to a lot of souls, from all sorts of realms, presumably, so I think Anduin's Sword may have been pumped with a lot of juice from all sorts of realms in the forging process. It seems like that's another way to imbue souls into armor, considering how we crafted legendaries with the Soul Ash. So, while Arthas may have been getting Souls with his Val'kyr later and from some mix of initial manual reaping and scrounging for souls at graveyards (or have them delivered to him via Meat Wagons, Death Gating around to a location and hoovering up souls, or having huge constructs of thousands of souls walk up to him to deliver souls), the amount of souls the Jailer has extends to all of time of all different timelines, in all sorts of various Shadowlands... the amount of souls of one planet like Azeroth would be a lot less than all the souls of planets that would have died against the Legion or the Void.

    Though, the Legion and Void probably took their share of souls as well, the Jailer probably has access to literally every soul that has died, ever, making him potentially way more powerful than Frostmourne even under ideal circumstances.
    Last edited by Razion; 2021-05-30 at 02:01 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    As stands in 9.1, I believe we rescue some hundred souls or something of the Night Elves that were captured out of the ten thousand or so that were killed in Darnassus that we had an opportunity to save (and were only able to rescue like, a thousand ourselves, perhaps).
    there is no way Darnassus had ten thousand of nelf killed, because
    1) nelf population is extremely low, they had a mindset not reproduce due to their immortality, u can't change a mindset that stayed for 10000 years in a mere dozen
    2) Darnassus is the least habitat capital in all capitals in wow, lower than even TB which had a 6k citizen counter, Darnassus was never liked by nelfs in first place, they prefer actual nature not artificial one like Ashenvale (with all its conflict) or Mount Hyjal (tried to check wowpedia, but they sadly removed all those numbers, probably because their source is the non-canon anymore RPG books)3
    3) Also right now it isn't clear if runeblade rips soul and takes a part of it or not, since we have 2 confirmed souls were ripped by frostmourne: Sylvannas and Uther, we don't have a 3rd example of a soul Arthas devoured as whole by his sword, seems Frostmourne eats a soul partially not fully consumes it
    4) Bolvar of course didn't use any Frostmourne shard, we used all Frostmourne shards in Legion when blizz spit on our faces and made us reforge the most iconic legendary weapon in warcraft history itself, to a disgusting sick joke of 2 mini swords in size of daggers (heck Kingslayers were bigger than them, I think i hate that part the MOST in legion)
    5) Lich King used Soul Grinders to capture any soul he kills, not Valkyrs, we already have an official lore answer about how LK collected average kill that happened by his forces, the question is what did he do after he collected it, just use it as a battery, or empowered his sword (if that is possible), or just to piss off alliance and horde?

    why did blizz spit on us in Legion in Frostmourne, we already got the 2nd most iconic weapon Ashbringer in all its glory, I'm lucky I main paladin I guess since I had my weapon, but I can't ever forgive what they did to Frostmourne...
    Last edited by sam86; 2021-05-30 at 08:25 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    there is no way Darnassus had ten thousand of nelf killed, because
    1) nelf population is extremely low, they had a mindset not reproduce due to their immortality, u can't change a mindset that stayed for 10000 years in a mere dozen
    2) Darnassus is the least habitat capital in all capitals in wow, lower than even TB which had a 6k citizen counter, Darnassus was never liked by nelfs in first place, they prefer actual nature not artificial one like Ashenvale (with all its conflict) or Mount Hyjal (tried to check wowpedia, but they sadly removed all those numbers, probably because their source is the non-canon anymore RPG books)
    If IG quest is anything to go by, I think that for Alliance players, the quest where they tried to save as many people as they can had a "X/942" (impossible to achieve) ? So I guess this 942 was the total amount of NElfs living in Teldrassil at the time ?
    (otherwise if they were 6 million, the quest would have asked you to save 6 million people, this number would anyway be impossible to achieve by design).

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    If IG quest is anything to go by, I think that for Alliance players, the quest where they tried to save as many people as they can had a "X/942" (impossible to achieve) ? So I guess this 942 was the total amount of NElfs living in Teldrassil at the time ?
    (otherwise if they were 6 million, the quest would have asked you to save 6 million people, this number would anyway be impossible to achieve by design).
    again i'm not using in-game reference at all, i'm using actual lore numbers, from books that wow removed them from canon because of Jaina's brother whom in end still added to lore (making remove them from canon point itself useless, because everything else in it that was used in wow is accurate, it has no contradiction with wow lore except in 1 point and even that blizz made it canon later)
    -Darnassus is hated, that's something that was clear from day 1 in wow, in fact it is why Fandral was never leader of nelfs
    -nelf reproduce like stones, exact opposite of humans/goblins, a couple produce a child every 5k year average or something, since they are immortal they never cared to reproduce (yes that part is canon at least), hence why immortality loss in wc3 is a huge deal to them, they lived for 10k years not thinking about reproducing, now that they are mortals they are struggling to adjust to idea they need to fuck again for actually having kids, while warcraft never went vulgar with their words, they were at least clear: nelf birth rate is extremely negative
    -i'm not downgrading what sylvanas did, i hate it, but at same time (no idea on purpose or not) it still done on least habitat capital in all factions, nelfs - who are already least reproducing race in wow - don't even like to stay in it, not to mention if that was successful genocide then nelf won't be playable anymore, like high elves for example (blizz can easily fix that by making them allied race category, just word change), nelf society loss was way lower than if that attack happened on any other capital, except TB who also has low population because taurens still like to travel a lot like nomads

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