Was the Jailer the former Arbiter?

[ro9ue]

He has hole in chest, she - the new Arbiter - has black orb near her chest. Maybe this his heart was like an artifact that acts like a black hole for souls, and when she usurped him, pried it from his chest and locked him away. Then assumed his role.

I can see this reveal being something that shows the overreach of the light, the current Arbiter has the same visual motif as a Naaru.

[Alanar]

Your guess is as good as mine.

Maybe if the arbiter would do something or talk even.. we would be much closer.

[Varodoc]

No, your theory is wrong, because the Arbiter despises the Light. In fact, I believe Kael'thas Sunstrider was actually doomed to the Maw, until the Arbiter found out that he was torturing a fallen naaru, at which point she deemed him redeemable. The Arbiter despises both the Light and the Void because they pose serious threats to the Shadowlands, just look at Revendreth and how a large portion of it was scorched completely by the naaru Z'rali, or how in Bastion the Void came very close to wiping out ALL kyrians.

Also N'Zoth mentioned that the Light made a bargain with the enemy of all, and from his perspective Death is the enemy of all, which means that the Light would actually be an ally of the Jailer, and thus an enemy of the Arbiter.

[Aucald]

According to the Primus' recent message both the Arbiter and Zovaal (now the Jailer) were part of the pantheon of the Eternal Ones who rule the realms of Death, which also includes Sire Denathrius, the Primus, the Winter Queen, and Kyrestia the Firstborne. At some point eons in the past Zovaal betrayed them, which led his peers to imprison him eternally in the Maw. What roles the Arbiters and Zovaal may have had prior to his imprisonment is unknown, but it seems they were at least concurrent with one another and the Arbiter didn't replace the Jailer. Although it is possible that the Arbiter took something from Zovaal, perhaps the bulk of his power or some aspect that essentially completes him, as part and parcel of his imprisonment.

[bagina]

Personally I don't think Arbiter is native to Shadowlands, I think she's been placed there by some external force. She looks foreign to the place. Well that's just my impression, got no concrete proof.

Most likely she's a leftover from the "First Ones" like all those obelisks that are scattered all over Shadowlands. The eternal ones have been listening to her for millenia, she's the embodiment of the old way of thinking. Prediction: Something something they decide she's a part of an outdated system and remove her.

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No, your theory is wrong, because the Arbiter despises the Light. In fact, I believe Kael'thas Sunstrider was actually doomed to the Maw, until the Arbiter found out that he was torturing a fallen naaru, at which point she deemed him redeemable. The Arbiter despises both the Light and the Void because they pose serious threats to the Shadowlands, just look at Revendreth and how a large portion of it was scorched completely by the naaru Z'rali, or how in Bastion the Void came very close to wiping out ALL kyrians.

Also N'Zoth mentioned that the Light made a bargain with the enemy of all, and from his perspective Death is the enemy of all, which means that the Light would actually be an ally of the Jailer, and thus an enemy of the Arbiter.

Now this got me thinking... Just who in this whole thing seeks the destruction of other forces more, really? If the Jailer wants to destroy reality along with all other cosmic forces why would the Light ally itself with him? The Arbiter and co. would benefit from the annihilation of other forces the most, really...

[Powerogue]

Pretty good guess for sure. Blizzard loves visual storytelling. I'd almost say it feels too obvious. It's clearly the first and most central thing we're supposed to notice about their two character models.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Personally I don't think Arbiter is native to Shadowlands, I think she's been placed there by some external force. She looks foreign to the place. Well that's just my impression, got no concrete proof.

Well that and Oribos also feels off compared to the rest of the Shadowlands but...this comment might be outdated sometime in 2021 /shrug Arbiter feels a bit too titanesque in all honestly, intentional or not.

[LemonDemonGirl]

It looks like someone/thing might've built her. She seems far too robotic to be an actual living thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jailer was related to her in some way tbh.
YMMV of course though

[sunnycutie]

No, your theory is wrong, because the Arbiter despises the Light. In fact, I believe Kael'thas Sunstrider was actually doomed to the Maw, until the Arbiter found out that he was torturing a fallen naaru, at which point she deemed him redeemable.

lol the expansion lore just gets more and more retarded

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The Arbiter despises both the Light and the Void because they pose serious threats to the Shadowlands

But aren't the Kyrians creatures of the light? Jesus Christ none of this makes sense.

[Aucald]

But aren't the Kyrians creatures of the light? Jesus Christ none of this makes sense.

No, the Kyrians are creatures of Death, and the premier psychopomps in service to Oribos. We don't really know if the Arbiter despises the Light or the Void, per se; we very little of the Arbiter's personality at this point.

[Houle]

Well that and Oribos also feels off compared to the rest of the Shadowlands but...this comment might be outdated sometime in 2021 /shrug Arbiter feels a bit too titanesque in all honestly, intentional or not.

thats because the first ones, who created everything (most likely including specifically the arbiter, which would explain why shes basically no more than a robot), are straight up titan rip-offs

[Varodoc]

lol the expansion lore just gets more and more retarded

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But aren't the Kyrians creatures of the light? Jesus Christ none of this makes sense.

The kyrians might look angelic, but make no mistake: they are not creatures of the Light. They are servants of the Shadowlands, and thus belong in the realm of Death.

The Shadowlands are at war with the Void and Light. The Void armies invaded Maldraxxus and Bastion in the past, and came close to wiping out the kyrians. The Light forces led by the naaru Z'rali invaded Revendreth and scorched a large portion of the area.

[sunnycutie]

No, the Kyrians are creatures of Death, and the premier psychopomps in service to Oribos. We don't really know if the Arbiter despises the Light or the Void, per se; we very little of the Arbiter's personality at this point.

They are literally angels. People like Uther who were paladins in life are prepared to become Kyrians and then ascend to become Spirit Healers. You know the thing priests turn into when they die. The guys that resurrect us. But they are creatures of death and not of the light. Ok. I didn't expect the lore to make sense at this point anyway.

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The kyrians might look angelic, but make no mistake: they are not creatures of the Light. They are servants of the Shadowlands, and thus belong in the realm of Death.

Everything in the Shadowlands belongs to the realm of death, that doesn't change that there are other forces intertwined with it. Ardenweald is a place of rebirth. Creatures of life go there to be reborn and return to Azeroth. So the creatures in Ardenweald in the end serve life. Again I don't expect the lore to make sense at this point. You can't get more contradictory forces than life and death.

If all of the Shadowlands serve death, then don't they ultimately all serve the jailor? Then why should we stop him? Why should the denizens of the realm of death want the help of living creatures (us) in order to stop death, when they all serve death?

If any of this makes sense to you, you should start writing novels for Blizzard. I certainly can't stomach this shit.

[CheckThyself]

They are literally angels. People like Uther who were paladins in life are prepared to become Kyrians and then ascend to become Spirit Healers. You know the thing priests turn into when they die. The guys that resurrect us. But they are creatures of death and not of the light. Ok. I didn't expect the lore to make sense at this point anyway.

Your not making a great deal of effort to actually understand it.
all of your posts are vague and simplistic
it’s been said, the Kyrian are not beings of light but of death.....you are taking what society knows of angels and heaven and it’s association with light and keep trying to apply it or rationalize it within the lore of WoW which clearly is designed another way.
so yeah it doesn’t seem like you are really trying to understand at all.

[Aucald]

They are literally angels. People like Uther who were paladins in life are prepared to become Kyrians and then ascend to become Spirit Healers. You know the thing priests turn into when they die. The guys that resurrect us. But they are creatures of death and not of the light. Ok. I didn't expect the lore to make sense at this point anyway.

They aren't literal angels, though; just as the Val'kyr themselves aren't angels. People whose primary interest was service to a greater cause are drawn to becoming Kyrians - this can include Paladins, but also includes a wide swath of other classes, people, and professions. Character abilities don't translate 1:1 into lore, either. This isn't an issue with the lore not making sense, but more you not understanding the lore.

[sunnycutie]

They aren't literal angels, though

They absolutely are in every possible way.

[Moonrage]

They absolutely are in every possible way.

Just because they look like divine, winged humanoids does not mean they're angels.

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No, your theory is wrong, because the Arbiter despises the Light. In fact, I believe Kael'thas Sunstrider was actually doomed to the Maw, until the Arbiter found out that he was torturing a fallen naaru, at which point she deemed him redeemable. The Arbiter despises both the Light and the Void because they pose serious threats to the Shadowlands, just look at Revendreth and how a large portion of it was scorched completely by the naaru Z'rali, or how in Bastion the Void came very close to wiping out ALL kyrians.

So the light that burns the Venthyr to death is actual (naaru) light?

[shoc]

My impression is that Zovaal was always the god of the Maw but when he revolted over getting stuck with the shittiest job in the afterlife, the other gods kicked his ass, told him to know his place, and put him under house arrest forever.

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No, your theory is wrong, because the Arbiter despises the Light. In fact, I believe Kael'thas Sunstrider was actually doomed to the Maw, until the Arbiter found out that he was torturing a fallen naaru, at which point she deemed him redeemable. The Arbiter despises both the Light and the Void because they pose serious threats to the Shadowlands, just look at Revendreth and how a large portion of it was scorched completely by the naaru Z'rali, or how in Bastion the Void came very close to wiping out ALL kyrians.

Also N'Zoth mentioned that the Light made a bargain with the enemy of all, and from his perspective Death is the enemy of all, which means that the Light would actually be an ally of the Jailer, and thus an enemy of the Arbiter.

Kael didn't win any points for torturing Naaru, that part of the Sinstones was removed in some later beta patches. What's true though is that Denathrius conducted him sick experiments on some Naaru in Sinfall which was the crux for a Naaru/Light invasion of Revendreth. 'The Light' took huge offence to what Denathrius was doing, the Naaru being the physically manifested agents of the Light were the soldiers in that war. In Legion, Khadgar found that the naaru may have been created by Elune during the great ordering of Light and Shadow, so it's possible that Elune is connected to the Light invasion of Venthyr in some capacity.

[cparle87]

Now this got me thinking... Just who in this whole thing seeks the destruction of other forces more, really? If the Jailer wants to destroy reality along with all other cosmic forces why would the Light ally itself with him? The Arbiter and co. would benefit from the annihilation of other forces the most, really...

From the descriptions we've gotten recently the Void believes that all paths and possibilities are valid, which the Light believes there is only one true path. Maybe helping the Jailer destroy all other forces leaving only the Light is the plan?

[kiramon]

Just because they look like divine, winged humanoids does not mean they're angels.

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So the light that burns the Venthyr to death is actual (naaru) light?

Z'rali and the forces of light scorched the Ember Ward