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  1. #41
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I have news for you there are these other countries with different tax policies that have existed for centuries that we can take data from and see what works and apply it to our own. I hope the shock of learning that there are other countries with different rules nor the concept of learning from others does not break you.
    This is what breeds populism... you get water from the ocean, not a rock...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    This is what breeds populism... you get water from the ocean, not a rock...
    That was a sloppy dodge.
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  3. #43
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    That was a sloppy dodge.
    The thing that makes taxes difficult, is perception. Instead of treating a tax hike, because you are one of 2% richest people in US, as a badge of honor or pride. We pretend that the tax increase on those 2%, creates suffering equivalent to a poor person losing income to taxes. Which is wrong on so many levels, compounded by... what I see as the majority... that simply don’t understand tax brackets.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Why would someone expect that? He fired then arrested the person who was giving accurate numbers.
    The fired employee was actually mad about a short delay in releasing numbers, to verify the numbers, which she was ordered to do. She was then found out to be a serial liar and fabulist, attacking families and misleading the public on COVID infections. Find another hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    All I know of the situation is that Florida's COVID numbers were routinely on par with the far more populated states of Texas and California and that from the start Florida was fudging its numbers on COVID with the aforementioned suppression of data scientists who tried to air how actually poorly things were going in Florida.

    So yeah, doesn't seem like Florida scraped out all that great after all, unless you consider "semi-successfully lied and suppressed information during a deadly pandemic for economic gain" to be "success."
    Honest people can disagree about how much credit he deserves, and what precise metric he should be evaluated on. Remember that Florida has a higher median age of population than New York and California (much much higher than California), and COVID disproportionately affects the elderly. And already answered on the lies angle, which appears to be truly backed by a politically motivated belief that he did bad.

    Truly, just read the story, and read both sides.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The fired employee was actually mad about a short delay in releasing numbers, to verify the numbers, which she was ordered to do. She was then found out to be a serial liar and fabulist, attacking families and misleading the public on COVID infections. Find another hero.


    Honest people can disagree about how much credit he deserves, and what precise metric he should be evaluated on. Remember that Florida has a higher median age of population than New York and California (much much higher than California), and COVID disproportionately affects the elderly. And already answered on the lies angle, which appears to be truly backed by a politically motivated belief that he did bad.

    Truly, just read the story, and read both sides.
    ...so he knowingly kept his state open and imperiled the greater number of people his state contains who were more susceptible to the very disease he underplayed?

    Again, you're not exactly painting this like a "victory" for him.

    There are no "winners" in the handling of COVID outside of places like New Zealand that listened to their government and health officials and outright extirpated it. If you're touting that someplace "did well" because some economic metric looks "good" throughout, but ignore the actual, important, human toll, you're judging 100% the wrong thing.

    Businesses that had to close temporarily can be reopened. Profits lost can be regained in the future. Businesses that had to shutter will be replaced by new ones. But you can never bring the dead back to life.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    To be honest, it’s in the article. You might’ve expected Florida numbers to be beyond terrible, considering how limited/short of a lockdown they went through compared to others, and it’s a legitimate news story to say they beat the expectations of some people.

    The headline itself is a valid point; his handling of the crisis without destroying business or tourism is aiding his political fortunes. Side note: they’ll also get more clicks framing the story this way.
    As a Floridian, I can tell you the numbers are a lie.

    DeSantis has been making Cuomo look like an open book with numbers.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  7. #47
    Stunning to watch Ron DeSantis take a victory lap when the largest city in his state had more new covid cases over the last week than any other large city in the U.S.. While the media pundits applaud him.

    And by "stunning," I mean "Holy crap, how has no one punched this guy, or his fawning scribes."

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Stunning to watch Ron DeSantis take a victory lap when the largest city in his state had more new covid cases over the last week than any other large city in the U.S.. While the media pundits applaud him.

    And by "stunning," I mean "Holy crap, how has no one punched this guy, or his fawning scribes."
    That's not his fault....it's Biden's fault.
    Or maybe it was Texas that blamed Biden, not sure.

  9. #49
    I have a theory. Bear with me.

    The reason they prop up the story is: The all-time favourite "Everyone's a winner, there are no losers here" attitude. Every side has two stories. Truth is only an opinion, and every opinion is valid, therefore every truth is true. It's all relative... I can come up with more junk if anyone's interested, btw, just stop me anytime...

    Also, boring but probably more to the point: Why not prop up the biggest entertainment spectacle aside from wars, mass shootings and/or the latest Kardashian scandal? As long as people are dumb enough to pay for it with their time watching ads, why not show it? It's low investment entertainment. Barely takes any effort, an intern is probably writing that shit anyway. And as far as some of the GoP top dogs go, it does not matter AT ALL what they're saying. As long as their mouths are moving and they appear to not have died live on camera (that would be good for ratings, I'm sure), the world is alright.

    If McConnell made an interview saying he eats babies, people would immediately ask to re-interview him to ask a) how they actually taste, chicken? or b) why he felt the need to tell everyone... or c) start the hype for the biggest and most scandalous court trials since OJ Simpson... revenue guaranteed for at least a year of regurgitated nonsense.
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-03-24 at 02:30 AM.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    ...so he knowingly kept his state open and imperiled the greater number of people his state contains who were more susceptible to the very disease he underplayed?

    Again, you're not exactly painting this like a "victory" for him.

    There are no "winners" in the handling of COVID outside of places like New Zealand that listened to their government and health officials and outright extirpated it. If you're touting that someplace "did well" because some economic metric looks "good" throughout, but ignore the actual, important, human toll, you're judging 100% the wrong thing.

    Businesses that had to close temporarily can be reopened. Profits lost can be regained in the future. Businesses that had to shutter will be replaced by new ones. But you can never bring the dead back to life.
    I mean, as you can read in the news stories cited, too much was made of the imperilment and those people should be regarded as doomsayers. Phrased differently, your gripe is that he did too well for you and didn't respond in as panicked of a manner as you wished and sadly was rewarded in economic profit and overall performance.

    As regards no "winners" beyond New Zealand, I too think an island nation with a population the size of Alabama possesses unique features that can define a "Win." How much you wish to generalize results with those advantages depends on your own proclivities and prejudices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    As a Floridian, I can tell you the numbers are a lie.

    DeSantis has been making Cuomo look like an open book with numbers.
    I'm happy to see your evidence, especially since you have a much closer view than I do. I'm a Californian, so I can tell you that Governor Newsom's response is easily in the bottom 10 of states and he ought to be recalled and never achieve a position of public responsibility again. But, y'know, I'm biased and all that.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  11. #51
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I mean, as you can read in the news stories cited, too much was made of the imperilment and those people should be regarded as doomsayers. Phrased differently, your gripe is that he did too well for you and didn't respond in as panicked of a manner as you wished and sadly was rewarded in economic profit and overall performance.
    This is the equivalent of a cheater bragging that the test wasn't as hard as people were saying.

    As regards no "winners" beyond New Zealand, I too think an island nation with a population the size of Alabama possesses unique features that can define a "Win." How much you wish to generalize results with those advantages depends on your own proclivities and prejudices.
    You can just say you're not familiar with the Ardern ministry's approach to COVID beyond shutting down international travel, you know.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I'm happy to see your evidence, especially since you have a much closer view than I do. I'm a Californian, so I can tell you that Governor Newsom's response is easily in the bottom 10 of states and he ought to be recalled and never achieve a position of public responsibility again. But, y'know, I'm biased and all that.
    The per capita death rate for California is about in the middle which is pretty decent considering that California is densely populated and an international trade and travel hub. Its also about 1/3 MAGAhat which amounts to millions of people who don't believe its real.

    And yes we know you're extremely biased.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    mainstream media often get accused of political bias so they over compensate by writing fawning articles of republicans and overly criticize dems for nothing, it was msm that hyped the hillary "email" scandel and gave trump free air time, the whole bias thing is really a myth
    Entirely - a myth created and perpetrated by the Conservative Right because their lies were getting called out by fact-based media news.

  14. #54
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I mean, as you can read in the news stories cited, too much was made of the imperilment and those people should be regarded as doomsayers. Phrased differently, your gripe is that he did too well for you and didn't respond in as panicked of a manner as you wished and sadly was rewarded in economic profit and overall performance.

    ....and Florida is preparing for yet another potential wave as impudent spring breakers invade the state. Oopsie.

    As far as did "well," you call 33,000 Floridians dying from Covid "doing well?" When you admit that the governor's lax response might have indeed lead to elderly people getting the disease and causing a higher death rate?



    As regards no "winners" beyond New Zealand, I too think an island nation with a population the size of Alabama possesses unique features that can define a "Win." How much you wish to generalize results with those advantages depends on your own proclivities and prejudices.
    Apparently, a populace that listens to scientists and health officials is "unique" to New Zealand? I mean, in the context of the United States (and certainly Alabama) that's unfortunately true, but that responsibility lies exclusively within the purview of the people and their elected officials, and absolutely no one and nothing else. Every anti-masker, every lie that came out of Trump's mouth, everyone that knowingly endangered another person or listened to quack talking heads with no medical aptitude over the advice of actual doctors... they made those choices to spread COVID.

    And if you're going to point out that NZ and Alabama share similar population sizes... why didn't Alabama jump on it and batten down their population? New Zealanders are already pretty much back to business as usual. Alabama has had five times more people die of Covid than New Zealand even had Covid cases. So it sounds like Alabama would love to be in New Zealand's shoes right now, what with New Zealand chugging along happy and free and Alabama being... well, Alabama about it.

    Maybe it's the previous administration's abject refusal of leadership and constant, unwavering denial of science that contributed to those deaths, hmm?
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-03-24 at 06:14 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #55
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I mean, as you can read in the news stories cited, too much was made of the imperilment and those people should be regarded as doomsayers. Phrased differently, your gripe is that he did too well for you and didn't respond in as panicked of a manner as you wished and sadly was rewarded in economic profit and overall performance.
    Florida had one of the highest death totals, infection rates, and symptom-based illness in the United States. De Santis was so afraid of the truth he arrested scientists who tried to get the word out.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    As regards no "winners" beyond New Zealand, I too think an island nation with a population the size of Alabama possesses unique features that can define a "Win." How much you wish to generalize results with those advantages depends on your own proclivities and prejudices.
    Canada called, wanted you to know you missed reality again.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I'm happy to see your evidence, especially since you have a much closer view than I do. I'm a Californian, so I can tell you that Governor Newsom's response is easily in the bottom 10 of states and he ought to be recalled and never achieve a position of public responsibility again. But, y'know, I'm biased and all that.
    No, you're really not. You are continually shown evidence that you bat aside because it upsets your echo chamber. If you really cared about evidence, you'd skim through the COVID thread for items relating to Florida.

    There is a reason "Fuck Florida" is a thing in this forum.

  16. #56
    Dammit, was today Dune Cosplay Day and no one told me?

    Anwyays Princess Wensicia whines about identity politics and wonders why Asian-Americans dont vote for the GOP.



    She's also training cats to eat migrant children and complains that her conservative husband makes her do all the work.

  17. #57
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Dammit, was today Dune Cosplay Day and no one told me?
    Know then, that it is the year ten thousand one hundred ninety one. The known universe is ruled by the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV, my father.

    I believe she was also complaining about preferring diverse candidates for cabinet saying people should get their positions based on their qualifications which, again, is rich coming from someone who's principle "qualification" is being someone's daughter.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

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