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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Granted you could argue this isn't a problem since WoW is still a money printing machine, but modern MMOs tend to attempt to move away from these things. Oh and put a lot more focus on and effort in, storytelling.
    Sure, but none of them have managed to compete with WoW in subscriptions or (for F2P/B2P) MAUs. Most of the other MMOs are straight-up failures. Only FFXV and ESO are even in the running in the West. Maybe GW2, although it's clearly on its way out-- and GW2 was the most "modern" MMO released ever, IMO.

  2. #282
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Are villains not allowed to just be evil?
    They are, but that makes for a quite boring villain (TEH END OF UR WERLD MUAHAHA /cackle). Moreover, the franchise has already had more than its fair share of those.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    The thing is that SL is much different than BFA, but it's also on the opposite end of what's wrong with WoW, so we got 2 sides of a very shitty coin. Also, sure Classic and TBC will bring a lot of people back, but they still need a retail subscription to play (I think, yeah?), so why not focus on the main fucking game? TBC and Classic are hype shit, yes. But that only keeps people in for a short amount of time. The main game should be the main concern here.
    I‘m pretty sure TBC will keep players longer interested and subbed to the game than 9.1, because there’s a lot to do in TBC. And even Classic realms after 1.5 years are still busy. Retail is fire and forget, you can rush through the content within a few days. In Classic and TBC you just need more time to get stuff done. And TBC might not be as massive as Classic, but it’s launch and the first months for sure will be at least as populated as retail (during launch I am sure TBC will trump Shadowlands activity).
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    There’s no indicator yet that makes a September release likely. The most likely month is July due to what I’ve said. September would be way too long and I don’t think it’ll be this late.

    If the PTR goes live within the next week(s), we’re heading towards an end of June / July release. If the PTR isn’t here by mid April, I would get a bit more worried, but still. 8-10 week PTS cycles still indicate a June/July release.
    Your only hunch is that "September is way too long"is based on nothing. Well that's not really dealing with actual evidence or from what we know. These are different times and I bet COVID has presented Blizzard with new challenges. Shadowlands felt like it was rushed out in the first place and I doubt they had even started working on the 9.1 content back then. They would have shown us something at Blizzcon like they did for Diablo 4, Diablo 2. They showed no game play, no video of the new raid, bosses or anything other than some art work. There is no way are they going to be able to release a patch 9.1 in 6 months under normal conditions let alone during COVID.

    There is every indicator that patch 9.1 is further away than most are assuming and nothing to tell us that its anywhere close to release on retail or even on the PTR. This expansion will be a pretty short one. I think COVID has put a huge strain on them and they will not be able to develop content as quickly as they wanted to and I think they'll simply rush through the story they want to tell and release the next expansion after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    September looks a bit too much for me. But late July/August is looking more likely with every passing day imo.
    Based on? I just took September as an earliest point. Not even saying its launching in September. Which is why I said I wouldn't even be surprised if its release late this year.

  5. #285
    Indeed. Straight-up evil is one-dimensional and boring. The void as an agent of chaos and infinite possibility is far more compelling than any cackling villain doing dastardly deeds for the sheer pleasure of it.

    The problem with WoW storytelling isn't that their villains are three-dimensional characters, it's that many of them try to be, but then fail, because their motivations are never explained. Sylvanas and the Jailer talk about freeing the bonds of life and death, but really, what are those bonds, and what end-state are they aiming for? If they explained that, and it at least made a twisted sort of sense in an ends justifying the means sort of manner, they would be far more compelling characters.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    Your only hunch is that "September is way too long"is based on nothing. Well that's not really dealing with actual evidence or from what we know. These are different times and I bet COVID has presented Blizzard with new challenges. Shadowlands felt like it was rushed out in the first place and I doubt they had even started working on the 9.1 content back then. They would have shown us something at Blizzcon like they did for Diablo 4, Diablo 2. They showed no game play, no video of the new raid, bosses or anything other than some art work. There is no way are they going to be able to release a patch 9.1 in 6 months under normal conditions let alone during COVID.

    There is every indicator that patch 9.1 is further away than most are assuming and nothing to tell us that its anywhere close to release on retail or even on the PTR. This expansion will be a pretty short one. I think COVID has put a huge strain on them and they will not be able to develop content as quickly as they wanted to and I think they'll simply rush through the story they want to tell and release the next expansion after that.
    We don‘t have any evidence. I‘m just basing my opinion on facts from previous expansions and PTS cycles. June is de facto the earliest month they can release 9.1. Everything later than that has yet to be seen, but the June date gets more and more unlikely the longer 9.1 isn’t on the PTR.

    We have this rumor that an employee said June is optimistic and August likely, but never was September mentioned. That’s why I stick with my opinion based on the numbers we have: June earliest months although unlikely if TBC launches in June. July most likely month, August pretty much the latest possible option. Your September guess is based on nothing factual at this point.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Jesus fuck, that would be a disaster.

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    .
    Well these ain't normal times. No one is really using any factual evidence or based on anything other than "too much time" as an excuse for them hoping that Blizzard releases the game in June/July. Sure it's a disaster but I guess Blizzard is prepared for that. You'll probably see another 6 month game pass coming out soon. We had the last one sometime around December. They'll be pushing in game purchases and TBC Classic in the hopes that keeps subscriptions roling. Cause really that's all they care about right now. As long as they keep that subscriber number stable, they'll take their time to release 9.1. Also from recent rumblings come out of Blizzard, even the higher ups are scared about the launch of 9.1

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...bout-91-delay/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    We don‘t have any evidence. I‘m just basing my opinion on facts from previous expansions and PTS cycles. June is de facto the earliest month they can release 9.1. Everything later than that has yet to be seen, but the June date gets more and more unlikely the longer 9.1 isn’t on the PTR.

    We have this rumor that an employee said June is optimistic and August likely, but never was September mentioned. That’s why I stick with my opinion based on the numbers we have: June earliest months although unlikely if TBC launches in June. July most likely month, August pretty much the latest possible option. Your September guess is based on nothing factual at this point.
    Well previous expansions and PTR cycles never had to deal with a pandemic. Games across the board are getting pushed back. You think WoW is immune to that?

    If we using Blizzard employee rumors, there was another recent reveal by Towilee who spoke to a Blizzard employer where they said that higher ups in the studio are worried about the launch of 9.1 and it's a lot further away than they expected.

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...bout-91-delay/

    Again I ain't saying its launching on September, just saying its the earliest giving Blizzard a 6 month window since Blizzcon.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    If we apply the 8-10 weeks of PTS, early June is only possible if the PTR drops tomorrow and we just have a rather short 8 week PTS. That would make 9.1 launch on June 1st.
    If PTR releases this week, 8 weeks wouldn't even be June. 10 weeks would only be the second June week.

    Source: Calendar for 2021.

  9. #289
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    You can't have motivations if you don't have a personality first, something our Blue Man is sorely lacking atm.
    Fair point. So the big reveal would be Zovaal having a personality. Hell maybe having one if the secret of the First Ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    If anything, the problem with many of WoW's villains comes from the fact that not alot of them are just evil? They have "motivations" or "goals", or they're "MISUNDERSTOOD HURR" like...no.

    I WANT AN EVIL ASS MOTHER FUCKER!
    So a villain like Fandaniel? Or Zenos?
    Also being corrupted by Fel is not a motivation or goal. That's just lazyness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Sure, but none of them have managed to compete with WoW in subscriptions or (for F2P/B2P) MAUs. Most of the other MMOs are straight-up failures. Only FFXV and ESO are even in the running in the West. Maybe GW2, although it's clearly on its way out-- and GW2 was the most "modern" MMO released ever, IMO.
    It is why I said this whole oldness might not be seen as a problem. Nostalgia is profitable. Just look at the Star Wars sequels.

    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    Well these ain't normal times. No one is really using any factual evidence or based on anything other than "too much time" as an excuse for them hoping that Blizzard releases the game in June/July. Sure it's a disaster but I guess Blizzard is prepared for that.
    I guess so. But unless raid tiers are shortened and the expansion lasts longer than usual we won't have time for a 9.3 if the PTR drops now. September or later is so far off it would put 9.2 in danger.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    Well these ain't normal times. No one is really using any factual evidence or based on anything other than "too much time" as an excuse for them hoping that Blizzard releases the game in June/July. Sure it's a disaster but I guess Blizzard is prepared for that. You'll probably see another 6 month game pass coming out soon. We had the last one sometime around December. They'll be pushing in game purchases and TBC Classic in the hopes that keeps subscriptions roling. Cause really that's all they care about right now. As long as they keep that subscriber number stable, they'll take their time to release 9.1. Also from recent rumblings come out of Blizzard, even the higher ups are scared about the launch of 9.1

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...bout-91-delay/

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well previous expansions and PTR cycles never had to deal with a pandemic. Games across the board are getting pushed back. You think WoW is immune to that?

    If we using Blizzard employee rumors, there was another recent reveal by Towilee who spoke to a Blizzard employer where they said that higher ups in the studio are worried about the launch of 9.1 and it's a lot further away than they expected.

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...bout-91-delay/

    Again I ain't saying its launching on September, just saying its the earliest giving Blizzard a 6 month window since Blizzcon.
    As I said, June is very optimistic. It’s the best case scenario, not the most likely one. If the PTR drops tomorrow or the week after, June is quite likely. If we don’t hear anything about the PTR until mid April, June is out of the equation.

    I stick with my July guess because I still think TBC is the priority at the moment and it will launch in June (pre patch in May). But I’m happy to admit that I was wrong when the PTS drops tomorrow.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  11. #291
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    As I said, June is very optimistic. It’s the best case scenario, not the most likely one. If the PTR drops tomorrow or the week after, June is quite likely.
    We need it to go on the PTR in April 1st

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Fair point. So the big reveal would be Zovaal having a personality. Hell maybe having one if the secret of the First Ones.



    So a villain like Fandaniel? Or Zenos?
    Also being corrupted by Fel is not a motivation or goal. That's just lazyness.



    It is why I said this whole oldness might not be seen as a problem. Nostalgia is profitable. Just look at the Star Wars sequels.



    I guess so. But unless raid tiers are shortened and the expansion lasts longer than usual we won't have time for a 9.3 if the PTR drops now. September or later is so far off it would put 9.2 in danger.
    Sargeras wasn't even corrupted by the Fel. He used it as a means of achieving his ends. KJ and Archimonde were infused by the Fel cause they believed in Sargeras' vision of a perfect future where power reigns above all, where their race can become dominant, where they can stand against the Void and all other opponents that dare get in their way. And even evil fuckers like Gul'dan just wanted a place in the world. Hell, Gul'dan went with the Fel not JUST because of the power, but also because he wanted a place in the Universe. And he would do anything, even abandon his own people, just to find that place. AU Gul'dan would be the one to realize that listening to the Legion would lead into him finding a people. A Legion. An army.

    "I guess so. But unless raid tiers are shortened and the expansion lasts longer than usual we won't have time for a 9.3 if the PTR drops now. September or later is so far off it would put 9.2 in danger."

    Like I said, just delay SL beyond the OG plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    They are, but that makes for a quite boring villain (TEH END OF UR WERLD MUAHAHA /cackle). Moreover, the franchise has already had more than its fair share of those.
    Not regarding main villains. Also, so what if it's boring? Darkseid is one of the most generic bad guys yet, and the Jailer's literally a carbon copy of him personality wise. Reminder that Darkseid is still the most well known DC villain.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Last week I read several different quotes and all saying best honest guess for 9.1 release is July / August, no earlier.
    I was coming to say the same thing, Bellular was saying around August from some of the people he had talked to and hes WAY more in the know than nearly anyone on these forums.

  14. #294
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    I was coming to say the same thing, Bellular was saying around August from some of the people he had talked to and hes WAY more in the know than nearly anyone on these forums.
    B-b-b-b-but muh clickbaits

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    We don‘t have any evidence. I‘m just basing my opinion on facts from previous expansions and PTS cycles. June is de facto the earliest month they can release 9.1. Everything later than that has yet to be seen, but the June date gets more and more unlikely the longer 9.1 isn’t on the PTR.
    Actually, if the PTR starts this week, May is still a possibility. You really need to check a calendar. June isn't the earliest with a 10 week PTR until next week.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Actually, if the PTR starts this week, May is still a possibility. You really need to check a calendar. June isn't the earliest with a 10 week PTR until next week.
    Funny how you’re just quoting me and none of the guys that are saying August or September, but keep quoting me for the sake of quoting me.

    And maybe with some more thoughts & prayers we’re getting 9.1 live by tomorrow. Source: feelings.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Funny how you’re just quoting me and none of the guys that are saying August or September, but keep quoting me for the sake of quoting me.

    And maybe with some more thoughts & prayers we’re getting 9.1 live by tomorrow. Source: feelings.
    Because they're just talking out of their waste disposal openings. You're verifiably miscalculating.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because they're just talking out of their waste disposal openings. You're verifiably miscalculating.
    Last days of May would be possible if they made PTR shorter than usual, let's say 8 or 9 weeks. But no reason to cut PTR short, June is end of quarter, no May. So I would exclude that month even if PTR drop this week.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Last days of May would be possible if they made PTR shorter than usual, let's say 8 or 9 weeks. But no reason to cut PTR short, June is end of quarter, no May. So I would exclude that month even if PTR drop this week.
    Sure, it's not terribly likely, but certainly not impossible. But July with a 10 week PTR would require at least 3 more weeks of no PTR.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Sure, it's not terribly likely, but certainly not impossible. But July with a 10 week PTR would require at least 3 more weeks of no PTR.
    Yep. Overall I think if there would be risk of 9.1 not releasing in June, devs would have to make decision to release at least raid on later date and release ANYTHING. WoW has long history of June patches: 3.3.5, 4.2, 6.2, 7.2.5, 8.2 and this happen for a reason (and it's not like every month has some patch release, there are few "hot" months like January, March, September).

    Only alternative I see is releasing TBC in June for short sub spike. I could even lean towards it, if Blizzard wouldn't say they aim to start 9.1 PTR soon (tm) after 9.0.5. I just don't see patch with one small zone, raid, dungeon and no big system updates (not even tier sets, even more, all sets are already in game) would sit on PTR for months.

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