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  1. #421
    I'm hoping any "redemption" is similar to Ellisande, realizing she was wrong, and sacrificing herself to help us. Not really redeming herself, but accepting maybe she had been wrong, and hoping we can do better.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by TristanTaylor View Post
    I'm hoping any "redemption" is similar to Ellisande, realizing she was wrong, and sacrificing herself to help us. Not really redeming herself, but accepting maybe she had been wrong, and hoping we can do better.
    I could see her martyring herself for us to escape the jailer or something like that, but its a guarantee we players wont get the killing blow... because the players have never killed a major popular NPC.

    Garrosh, Arthas, Illidan, Jaina, etc... at best, we can hope an NPC finishes the job

  3. #423
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    If it was just as easy as slapping a replacement character out there, then explain why the new menethil girl isnt popular like sylvanas. Why isn't k-mart replacement lich king even in the same stratosphere of popularity as Arthas? No, there isn't a single time of a "replacement character" working in wow's history short of Anduin, and that's only because they literally built Anduin from Vanilla up as the heir apparent
    literally none of those examples are a goth chick in skimpy outfit
    Bolvar was getting popular in Legion (but blizz killed it) and Bolvar is nowhere as exposed as someone like Garrosh
    Anduin was minor character up to MoP, being in 'classic' he was just some npc
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  4. #424
    K
    Quote Originally Posted by TristanTaylor View Post
    I'm hoping any "redemption" is similar to Ellisande, realizing she was wrong, and sacrificing herself to help us. Not really redeming herself, but accepting maybe she had been wrong, and hoping we can do better.
    Sylvanas for once not being the egoistic and egocentric psycho she usually is? Don’t know about that. Would it even fit her character development from the last expansions? Doesn’t sound like Sylvanas, she’s more the type of I‘m screwing all of you, just because I can.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-04-12 at 08:22 AM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  5. #425
    The Great Push is at the end of May, so you won't expect it until June at the earliest.

  6. #426
    If we're being very generous, the earliest is June. That's because PTR usually lasts 2 months. And that's IF the PTR isn't filled with bugs and glitches. Sometimes it can take even 3 months of PTR (like in the case of 8.3). So don't be surprised if 9.1 won't come out until July/early August.

    This patch isn't coming out before summer though, that much is certain.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    If we're being very generous, the earliest is June. That's because PTR usually lasts 2 months. And that's IF the PTR isn't filled with bugs and glitches. Sometimes it can take even 3 months of PTR (like in the case of 8.3). So don't be surprised if 9.1 won't come out until July/early August.

    This patch isn't coming out before summer though, that much is certain.
    The earliest date is June 7/8, that would be 8 weeks from today/tomorrow. We can be pretty sure that PTS won’t last less than 8 weeks, so that’s the earliest possible date.

    Now we have to consider TBC: they’re making a lot of progress there and basically all of the P1 content is available now for testing. I think it’s safe to say they’re on track and pre patch in May makes a lot of sense. Add 4 weeks to that until TBC launch and we’re in June. So... 9.1 and TBC both in June? I find that very unlikely.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You made nothing but accusations based on absolutely nothing.
    It's not based on nothing. The storyline in WOD very strongly indicated that a lot of content were cut during the expansion. I agree with you that there is no actual prove for the accusations made, but to say they are based on "nothing" is wrong. Saying Blizzard is "lazy" is probably wrong, since I don't doubt that the employees is working very hard. I rather say Blizzard was understaffed compared to their ambitions.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The earliest date is June 7/8, that would be 8 weeks from today/tomorrow. We can be pretty sure that PTS won’t last less than 8 weeks, so that’s the earliest possible date.

    Now we have to consider TBC: they’re making a lot of progress there and basically all of the P1 content is available now for testing. I think it’s safe to say they’re on track and pre patch in May makes a lot of sense. Add 4 weeks to that until TBC launch and we’re in June. So... 9.1 and TBC both in June? I find that very unlikely.
    Facts, it's better to distribute these two games across two different months to keep the interest going. That's why I'm not surprised if 9.1 comes out in July.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Holy shit.

    I give you the apologist thread. This should be used as a textbook example.
    Just because someone doesnt agree with your opinion doesnt mean they are simping.

    Perhaps you are just doom/gloom'ing

  11. #431
    9.1? August the earliest. Probably a good thing. Now we can all unsub and take a loong break+show blizzard they gotta step up when subs are dropping.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    literally none of those examples are a goth chick in skimpy outfit
    Bolvar was getting popular in Legion (but blizz killed it) and Bolvar is nowhere as exposed as someone like Garrosh
    Anduin was minor character up to MoP, being in 'classic' he was just some npc
    Her goth look is insignificant to her popularity. Plenty of awesome looking WoW characters who are awful. If it was that simple, Nathanos wouldve been equally popular.

    I don’t think you have a real grasp on why people like sylvanas.

    Not only does she have decades of lore built up, and is insanely powerful, but she’s also the closest many of us horde players have had to having a real warchief again. Garrosh was good too, but many of us horde players picked horde to be the bad guys and blizzard has slowly turned us into the power puff horde

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    her story is now hated by everyone, if blizz does anything but kill her it will piss the majority, if they fear her loyal fans just give them a new skimpy gothic chick and they will forget her name yesterday
    Nobody is going to forget an iconic character. Also, the majority of the players don't give a damn about the lore. Also, her story is not hated by everyone for that same reason. Massive projection of opinion there.

  14. #434
    Horde have never been the bad guys, all the way back to vanilla, they were always "noble savages". Garrosh and Sylvanas were each deposed and removed/killed when they tried to corrupt that.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Horde have never been the bad guys, all the way back to vanilla, they were always "noble savages". Garrosh and Sylvanas were each deposed and removed/killed when they tried to corrupt that.
    "Noble savages" that committed genocide without having second thoughts (Teldrassil). Most orcs were pretty much okay with Garrosh's rule as well.

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Horde have never been the bad guys, all the way back to vanilla, they were always "noble savages". Garrosh and Sylvanas were each deposed and removed/killed when they tried to corrupt that.
    when i roll a zombie, flesh eating EVIL wizard (undead warlock) i'm not expecting to be the hero of ANYTHING. Yet blizzard, in their small imaginations, thinks everyone wants to be like thrall and a noble hero.

    We all don't want to be captain america, some of us would prefer to be the villains and slowly blizzard turned the horde from villains with honor, into a bunch of power puff wusses, thanks to thrall.

    Some of us still prefer the WC2 horde, garrosh and sylvanas, over the wc3 limp wrist submission to the alliance horde we got under thrall, and/or Saurfang.

    Blizz would be far better suited by allowing morality to exist in wow and letting us be more than just perfect angels in game, let us be the barbarians at the gate like wc2 and vanilla
    Last edited by justandulas; 2021-04-12 at 01:44 PM.

  17. #437
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Her goth look is insignificant to her popularity. Plenty of awesome looking WoW characters who are awful. If it was that simple, Nathanos wouldve been equally popular.
    Nathanos is a goth chick? he is self inserted Danathor (or whatever was his name)
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Nobody is going to forget an iconic character. Also, the majority of the players don't give a damn about the lore. Also, her story is not hated by everyone for that same reason. Massive projection of opinion there.
    most wow players care about lore, not hardcore but at least want to know what happens
    of course no one will forget Sylvanas, but they will replace her as their fav (like for example Thrall was the most beloved wow character in classic era, but Cata dumped his reputation massively)
    You are right in that point: ppl hate her for many reasons, some hate her for being typical goth chick, some hate how they keep ping pong her character everywhere, some just never liked the concept of forsaken in first place, but it doesn't change the fact that the majority hates her, u don't need a 'why' unless u plan to fix it, what i suggest is not fix sylvanas, but just get rid of her and replace her void with a new skimpy goth elf because the only thing constant is her look to still be her fan
    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    "Noble savages" that committed genocide without having second thoughts (Teldrassil). Most orcs were pretty much okay with Garrosh's rule as well.
    No, most orcs officially stated and linked WAY TOO MUCH during MoP era are against Garrosh, most of Garrosh fans were the old horde whom he recruited, a faction that is enemy to Thrall's horde since wc3 days
    Do I have source for my word? no, we talking about 8 or 10 years old links now, if u really curious just dig in my old posts around MoP era and u'll find it a LOT since i remember I had to link it all time to remind ppl that official lore answer: most Garrosh supporters are factions that joined horde under his rule, like Dragonmaw or Old Horde, Thrall's horde were pretty much united against him
    (btw doubt even if u have the patience and do dig will find working links, we talk about 8 years old links here)
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Some of us still prefer the WC2 horde, garrosh and sylvanas, over the wc3 limp wrist submission to the alliance horde we got under thrall, and/or Saurfang.
    then u playing wrong game, go play SWTOR which has clear good vs evil, or LOTR (is it still working?)
    wow horde is continue to wc3 horde, and enemy to wc2 horde (aka old horde) since classic days, heck forsaken were added under heavy pressure from Taurens to help save them from the undeath curse, not because they are evil, but because they want to make them good
    back when rpg was stronger in wow there were quests to non-forsaken horde and vice versa, one of my most loved quests in wow history is "Nothing but the Truth" from classic that shows clearly forsaken and how horde are blind to their evil (sadly)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    most wow players care about lore, not hardcore but at least want to know what happens
    of course no one will forget Sylvanas, but they will replace her as their fav (like for example Thrall was the most beloved wow character in classic era, but Cata dumped his reputation massively)
    You are right in that point: ppl hate her for many reasons, some hate her for being typical goth chick, some hate how they keep ping pong her character everywhere, some just never liked the concept of forsaken in first place, but it doesn't change the fact that the majority hates her, u don't need a 'why' unless u plan to fix it, what i suggest is not fix sylvanas, but just get rid of her and replace her void with a new skimpy goth elf because the only thing constant is her look to still be her fan
    Again, that is you projecting your opinion. The majority actually do not care about lore or hate specific character. The only ones that actually hate are always a vocal minority. And none of Sylvanas fans are going to go to a "skimpy goth elf" Nobody is. You are projecting a fantasy world where you dictate how everyone feels. Not how reality works at all.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Just because someone doesnt agree with your opinion doesnt mean they are simping.

    Perhaps you are just doom/gloom'ing
    I've actually not commented one way or the other, it's just hilariously one-sided. Like almost disturbingly so his comment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    SO you have no proof and are just making claims that fit your agenda. Got it.
    So let's start with

    A) I was not the OP you were replying 2
    B) If you can't see how literally *any* post the looks like the following is an apologist / simping response then you are delusional. And also guilty of what you had accused me of having no proof.

    ANd you know that how? Were you there?

    ANd you know that how? Were you there?

    Blizzard did not in any way promise anything.

    ANd you know that how? Were you there.

    You made nothing but accusations based on absolutely nothing.
    Aka your entire post can be summed up as.

    "Well you weren't there so you dono for sure" like gtfo that's hilariously silly. As if nothing can be derived without physically being present. Regardless of the topic. So devoid of logic is your response to me, given the post I quoted that it boggles the mind.
    Last edited by prwraith; 2021-04-12 at 03:36 PM.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    I've actually not commented one way or the other, it's just hilariously one-sided. Like almost disturbingly so his comment.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So let's start with

    A) I was not the OP you were replying 2
    B) If you can't see how literally *any* post the looks like the following is an apologist / simping response then you are delusional. And also guilty of what you had accused me of having no proof.



    Aka your entire post can be summed up as.

    "Well you weren't there so you dono for sure" like gtfo that's hilariously silly. As if nothing can be derived without physically being present. Regardless of the topic. So devoid of logic is your response to me, given the post I quoted that it boggles the mind.
    No it isn't. He made claims without a shred of evidence to back it up and merely assigned motives to Blizzard that would fit his agenda. Unless you were there, you absolutely do not know anything. And it's ironic that you call me out for having no logic when your first post to me was nothing more than a personal attack. What is hilariously silly was you calling me an apologist simply because I don't agree with your opinion. People are allowed to like a defnd things. That doesn't mean they are an apologist. You are trying to dictate what opinions people are allowed to have.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    So another Azshara? This basically would be the worst outcome. If she survives, what‘s next? She helps us and redeems herself? She betrays the Jailer? All of this sounds horrible.
    That sounds fine to me depending on how she does all that. Sacrificing herself for the greater good without knowing if she lived or died would be a start. That way her character can be retired, but used later on down the line if something comes up that could use her.

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