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  1. #121
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    What are you on about? The point of stat templates was to put everyone on the same footing. It failed Because some classes were at a clear advantage with the stats Blizz gave them. Everyone going online and choosing the same (best) stats for their class would . . . . put them on the same footing.
    Class templates are bad anyway because they assume everyone plays the same way when in reality they do not.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    I agree with you 100% But the problem is, the participation #'s disagree with both of us, unfortunately. Pvp participation #s dropped significantly during Legion, arguably the lowest participation #s in pvp in WOW's history. The main reasons for this: progression and rewards. During BFA if you looked into RBGs groups in LFG you'd find maybe 4-6 groups on a good day and 2 of which happened to be carries for gold. In SL, because Blizzard attached rating to gear progression and great rewards with honor towards the vault as well as animae, the # of RBG groups on a good day have gone up TENFOLD.

    In fairness, Blizzard implemented the template system in Legion in perhaps the worst possible way. It lacked transparency and took away about 80% of the customiztion in pvp. Idk what the right answer is, although I do have quite a few ideas.
    Honestly thing it's just a problem endemic to being an MMO. PVP focused games overcome the lack of power progression with cosmetic progression. But WoW already has transmog and (not very good) pvp set appearances, and progression for the rest of the game is tied to gear power...so it's just weird when one aspect of the game doesn't apply.

    Unfortunately players seem to want WoW pvp to, say, have all the balance of League of Legends + you keep the items you buy from match to match. It's an inherent balancing catch 22 where one makes the other impossible but without either few people want to play. And then for every pvper that wants skill based "fair fights" you get two that pvp specifically to "roflstomp newbs" and want the gear imbalance.

    I legit don't think there is a solution until Blizzard is willing to say "our pvp design is for X (pro rating or casual fun) and if you want something different, then maybe try a different game."

  3. #123
    the gameplay is decent but i hate the carrot on a stick model
    play or you don't get the exclusive seasonal rewards!
    yeah... f*** that
    if you start playing each season you will feel compelled to keep doing that because of fear of missing out

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    i don't like the state of the pvp scene atm and i am using my right to rant about whatever i feel like it. how about you go bark to another tree if the converstaion / venting / crying doesn't interest you ?

    on topic : give us solo queue in the form of :

    1) no way to abuse the system. you absolutely queue alone and there is no way to time the clicking shit in order to jump into same group as in tbc arenas. ( yes, arena abusing is an age old problem in this god forsaken game )

    2) completely independent rating from 2v2 and 3v3.

    3) higher rating requirements for current tresholds, such as 1.5k - 1.7k - 1.9k instead of 1.4 - 1.6 - 1.8 why ? because i reckon it would be easier to climb the ratings that way because you will only encounter players at your gear - talent - luck - skill rating. fair game is fair.

    4) no gladiator mount. it must remain exclusive to 3v3 because it is close to impossible ( or it should be ) to boost a keyboard turner to 2.4k+ ratings on 3v3. ofcourse you can boost a guy who is hard stuck at 2.2k but it is not the same and i don't think i need to explain why.

    5) give us solo queue for rated bgs as well. because, simply , why not ?

    dude, you're hardstuck at 1400 as a fire mage when they are one of the most overpowered and plug and play classes in the game, you aren't going to get any better with solo queue, you're just not good at this game

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    Honestly thing it's just a problem endemic to being an MMO. PVP focused games overcome the lack of power progression with cosmetic progression. But WoW already has transmog and (not very good) pvp set appearances, and progression for the rest of the game is tied to gear power...so it's just weird when one aspect of the game doesn't apply.

    Unfortunately players seem to want WoW pvp to, say, have all the balance of League of Legends + you keep the items you buy from match to match. It's an inherent balancing catch 22 where one makes the other impossible but without either few people want to play. And then for every pvper that wants skill based "fair fights" you get two that pvp specifically to "roflstomp newbs" and want the gear imbalance.

    I legit don't think there is a solution until Blizzard is willing to say "our pvp design is for X (pro rating or casual fun) and if you want something different, then maybe try a different game."
    Introducing Armor dyes into the game could greatly improve the current form of progression and provide Blizzard with more microtransx. Win/win for everyone. Make 80% of all the dyes obtainable in game, some rarer than others and let players sell them on AH. It can and will instigate more wow token purchases. However, for one reason or another Blizzard refuses to do it.

    I agree with you. There probably isn't a solution, but I also strongly believe WOW pvp can still be improved. Ion Hazziclueless recently said pvp participation #s have been up quite a bit. The question is why? Is it because they added progressive tiers to the gear? Gear upgrades? Is it because they attached animae rewards for pvp? Maybe a combo of both. I'll tell what it's not, it's not because WOW pvp is more engaging than ever and balanced.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by h8ryan View Post
    dude, you're hardstuck at 1400 as a fire mage when they are one of the most overpowered and plug and play classes in the game, you aren't going to get any better with solo queue, you're just not good at this game
    i got infracted because of another moron like yourself. here comes the second one :

    you daft shithead, listen here : i may be good or bad but this isn't the problem here. say, if i am stuck at 1.4k, i should be facing 1.4k or lower players. this is the logic. are you this dumb to grasp this idea in all honesty ? fuck off to where you lurk you dumb fuck.

    see you in a few days.
    war does not determine who is right, only who is left.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by h8ryan View Post
    dude, you're hardstuck at 1400 as a fire mage when they are one of the most overpowered and plug and play classes in the game, you aren't going to get any better with solo queue, you're just not good at this game
    thats not his point, at all. He wants a queue system were you meet people at your rating. It sucks donkeykongballs meeting someone with high ranking when im far from that rank.

    I like doing arena but I stopped doing them for the most part cause more often than not its a 2.2k+ rated dude with BiS gear 1 shotting in seconds you face.

    Imagine if lets say.. Overwatch had a system like this. Everyone from Bronze to Master were tossed into the same playerpool. It would be a massive shitshow. Theres smurfs there, but the issue aint as big as with wow.

    It doesnt matter what your skill is, 1k or 2.2k. Thats not the point at all. People want to meet others at about same rating. Maybe it should be a system were if one on your team has over 2k rating, you 100% meet another team with same or better rank? Might give the boosters actual work to do, facing others with same or better rating.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Maybe it should be a system were if one on your team has over 2k rating, you 100% meet another team with same or better rank? Might give the boosters actual work to do, facing others with same or better rating.
    now this is a logical solution. currently, it is like a lottery. when one is 1k and the other is 2k in the same team, you may face anywhere between 1.5k and 2k and this is not fair to the 1.5k team because of the massive gear AND skill difference. sure, the lower guy dies in mere seconds most of the time but the higher geared one easily solos the team, especially if he is driving the current ferrari, a ret pally.

    i mean seriously, the current situation shouldn't be this hard to get : whatever your rating is, face the team that has the same or similar ratings. problem solved.
    war does not determine who is right, only who is left.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Class templates are bad anyway because they assume everyone plays the same way when in reality they do not.
    And how would that impact you if you got a stat budget and got to choose whatever stats you wanted on your template?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  10. #130
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    And how would that impact you if you got a stat budget and got to choose whatever stats you wanted on your template?
    See what i said about templates being bad.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Class templates are bad anyway because they assume everyone plays the same way when in reality they do not.
    Maybe this argument would have any weight if 99% people didn't just pick their BiS stats. Literally everyone is stacking versatility -> second best stat (usually haste).
    And it's not like stats actually affect gameplay in a significant way.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    now this is a logical solution. currently, it is like a lottery. when one is 1k and the other is 2k in the same team, you may face anywhere between 1.5k and 2k and this is not fair to the 1.5k team because of the massive gear AND skill difference. sure, the lower guy dies in mere seconds most of the time but the higher geared one easily solos the team, especially if he is driving the current ferrari, a ret pally.

    i mean seriously, the current situation shouldn't be this hard to get : whatever your rating is, face the team that has the same or similar ratings. problem solved.
    Yep. I am by no means very good at this game, and I have no issue admit people are better than me. Whats annoying is that im facing players that are obviously more skilled and much better geared than me so often. When im playing others ranked games I face others on my same level and its easy to "feel" its happening. Most games are even and enjoyable cause most people are on the same rank.

    Arena is not fun when you again and again meet people that have no reason whatsoever being in lower brackets.

    If Blizzard would put more effort into making a decent PvP system, I probably would stay subbed a whole lot more in wow.

  13. #133
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctiphobia View Post
    Maybe this argument would have any weight if 99% people didn't just pick their BiS stats. Literally everyone is stacking versatility -> second best stat (usually haste).
    And it's not like stats actually affect gameplay in a significant way.
    I like how you just pulled out a number out of the ether and expect people to take it seriously.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    i don't even wanna describe why. fuck the pvp developers for the game. fuck pvp boosters and fuck blizzard for allowing them to ruin the game for the rest of the players.
    PVP boosting was a thing since van wow. i once said pay to win started in van wow with server transfers, sorta got flamed here. yet during classic wow, my point was proven as several streamers server swapped servers for gear, and PVP carries, then swapped back all roided out.

    TBC and every expac since has had arena paid carries, game rigging, etc. a top streamer in past TBC stories has explained out on how fresh team were made and deleted to game the system. TBC was plagued with RMT which still continues

    wait till you see all the players with glaives that will be coming CBC if blizzard forgets, addons and server transfers will enable players to get both in 1-2 days. i will not describe how this was done, but tears will roll.

    as for SL, with PVP gearing being equal (gear) or better (wpns) than the the current mythic raid, even before the raid was out is not new. several streamers talk in van wow how they were invited to raids even though they did not raid and only PVP'd. other streamers used PVP gear to outpace TBC raids. former blizz dev ghostcrawler had a issue with this in TBC and called it welfare epics, which i also believe included justice badge gear where you could spam herioc dungeons and build up gear stronger than many lower raids players never did.

    blizzard forgets, and SL is virtually a throw back to TBC, and it is funny that CBC is coming back now.
    Last edited by pinkz; 2021-04-06 at 02:51 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    i don't even wanna describe why. fuck the pvp developers for the game. fuck pvp boosters and fuck blizzard for allowing them to ruin the game for the rest of the players.
    No one cares about pvpers or pvp at all.

    Pvp is a meme.

  16. #136
    Can people please just use I instead of i? That's all, have a good day.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    thats not his point, at all. He wants a queue system were you meet people at your rating. It sucks donkeykongballs meeting someone with high ranking when im far from that rank.

    I like doing arena but I stopped doing them for the most part cause more often than not its a 2.2k+ rated dude with BiS gear 1 shotting in seconds you face.

    Imagine if lets say.. Overwatch had a system like this. Everyone from Bronze to Master were tossed into the same playerpool. It would be a massive shitshow. Theres smurfs there, but the issue aint as big as with wow.

    It doesnt matter what your skill is, 1k or 2.2k. Thats not the point at all. People want to meet others at about same rating. Maybe it should be a system were if one on your team has over 2k rating, you 100% meet another team with same or better rank? Might give the boosters actual work to do, facing others with same or better rating.

    you realize boosters can just tank their own rating to game your own requirements right?

    what you want and think we need is a system where if you achieve a rating you will always play at that rating across all characters regardless of if you lose rating and that just wouldn't work either.

    boosting in wow will always be a thing, why not work to get to a point where you aren't getting 2v1'd by someone who has moderately better gear than you

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    now this is a logical solution. currently, it is like a lottery. when one is 1k and the other is 2k in the same team, you may face anywhere between 1.5k and 2k and this is not fair to the 1.5k team because of the massive gear AND skill difference. sure, the lower guy dies in mere seconds most of the time but the higher geared one easily solos the team, especially if he is driving the current ferrari, a ret pally.

    i mean seriously, the current situation shouldn't be this hard to get : whatever your rating is, face the team that has the same or similar ratings. problem solved.


    problem solved how? I boost people and tank my ratings down to 1400 to play bad players so that my boost goes more smoothly

    how would you combat me just purposefully losing rating so that I can play people at 1400 in the 2v2 bracket?

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by h8ryan View Post
    problem solved how? I boost people and tank my ratings down to 1400 to play bad players so that my boost goes more smoothly

    how would you combat me just purposefully losing rating so that I can play people at 1400 in the 2v2 bracket?
    you make me repeat myself but here it goes : mmr. matchmaking rating. an improved version of it. say, if you win n games against x, you won't face x anymore. if you don't win n games purposefully ( because anything is possible ) then your rating decays normally because you are losing to players who are at your (imaginary) level. if there is no way to remain stable, you either have to win or lose because you lose if you don't act.

    don't take these imaginary things as bible tho. i need to sit down and calculate exact numbers in order to implement such a big thing ( for me, not for blizzard) on a random forum while i am high half of the time. the idea is there, however. it is fixable and sure, you have no obligation to play fair. but when you lose purposefully and then you lose your access to x, would you lose ? what would change your mind ? what is your red line ? sure you must have one.

    you get the idea i guess ? if not, move along.
    war does not determine who is right, only who is left.

  19. #139
    2v2 is the booster bracket
    play 3v3

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Class templates are bad anyway because they assume everyone plays the same way when in reality they do not.
    Ok...how is this different than how the game currently is with more choices in gear? Every one t hat plays x class uses the same gear aside from the free gear they got from the vault...there are clear BiS that people have created as the meta and everyone just cookie cutters it anyway. One added solution could be to use stat templates while also allowing players to adjust the secondary stats by say moving 20% of haste into 10% crit and 10% vers as an example.

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