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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    Blizzard has to stop this toxic idea of chores and rather let players focus on content they enjoy.
    An activity only becomes a chore if you don't enjoy it but want the reward. For example doing a m+ per week for the vault could be seen as a chore if you don't like m+.

    So the only way to accomplish what you're asking for and let players focus on what they enjoy is to remove all rewards from every piece of content.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post

    Blizzard has to stop this toxic idea of chores and rather let players focus on content they enjoy.
    The "chores" are other peoples content. What you're asking for is to have the reward from that content neutered so that you don't feel obliged to do it.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But if say you can clear Mythic raids all content is beneath you because that is the "top" level. It isn't a difference I am over looking just a difference that ultimately doesn't matter unless you make it matter. Which returns to my comment about chores being self imposed rather then a function of the developers.
    The issue is those chores are required via later bosses. Now sure you can argue that with a perfect comp you can squeeze by the hard dps checks but even then it is stretching it.

    These systems are built with the expectation the chores are done. Perfect comps might be able to farm mythic enough to pass them but even then I am doubtful they would still be successful enough to completely bypass it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    An activity only becomes a chore if you don't enjoy it but want the reward. For example doing a m+ per week for the vault could be seen as a chore if you don't like m+.

    So the only way to accomplish what you're asking for and let players focus on what they enjoy is to remove all rewards from every piece of content.
    All you would have to do is scale the rewards. I don't think anyone in good faith will argue that harder content shouldn't have greater rewards. Just move the currency into multiple forms of content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    The "chores" are other peoples content. What you're asking for is to have the reward from that content neutered so that you don't feel obliged to do it.
    I am asking the rewards be moved to other content as well so everyone can do what they enjoy.

  4. #224
    "Why does SL feel like end of expansion time?"
    End of expansions are usually fun though even if it is the end =-(

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    I still don't understand, why would you have to or want to play WoW all the time? This game is my passion, and other RL things make it even impossible to keep up with multiple games, but for true gamers, seriously, why?

    Blizzard does not want you to play only WoW, there are threads on their official forums where CMs are discussing their favorite other games with the players ffs.

    And yes, even though Blizzard gets slack all the time for ''carrot on the stick'', it is evident more then ever that players in this game would sacrifice fun, immersion, even sanity for loot and power, and that nothing else comes even close in importance.
    This. The game shouldn't revolve around no-lifers. Current content is fine. You have a set ammount of meaningful things you can do and build goals without falling behind.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    This. The game shouldn't revolve around no-lifers. Current content is fine. You have a set ammount of meaningful things you can do and build goals without falling behind.
    I mean if the game wanted to move away from catering to no lifers they could gut the time sink systems.

  7. #227
    It has been like this for every expac new stuff, raids etc. people clear it then log in less just coming in for basics till the new stuff is released. Plus alot of WoW's player base has gotten older and does not have the time they used to.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post


    I am asking the rewards be moved to other content as well so everyone can do what they enjoy.
    Basically nobody would do the maw which is fine as far as I'm concerned because that place is awful. I actually tend to agree multiple paths towards the same reward is a fantastic idea. So let's put mythic raid gear on a vendor for valor points. After all we wouldn't want anyone to feel compelled to do content they don't like.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2021-03-21 at 07:36 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    No. The expansion legit doesn’t have to end with us assaulting the enemy at their main base. You do know the Jailer could actually beat us, if Blizzard wants to write the narrative that way, yes? Idk why you think we have to win every battle we get into
    They can, sure. But you flat out said lorewise we aren't even close to the end. Do you work for blizzard? I mean without insider knowledge you can't know for sure where we are lorewise.

  10. #230
    The problem is as it has always been. Outside of raids / m+ / pvp, the game simply isn't fun. There's no thought or creativity to doing WQ or leveling or the campaign or zerging old content for cosmetics. It doesn't matter how much there is to do when 90% of it is just not fun. 99% of WQ are kill x, collect y, fill the bar crap that takes way too long. Old raids pose no challenge and are just time consuming and you zerging down mobs. Campaign quests are the same as WQ.

    Nobody enjoys any of that content, I don't care how casual you are. It's not fun, and I don't believe anybody who says it is - what they find "fun" is the rewards, and rewards shouldn't be what makes something fun. And even if it is, is it $15/month worth of fun? The game is too focused on reward systems and not about making the moment to moment gameplay engaging, and it's been like this since vanilla unfortunately. You would think they would have seen how positively received the Mage Tower was and add that as the baseline sort of creativity for designing all content, but no, people seem to like turning their brains off.
    Last edited by infinitemeridian; 2021-03-21 at 07:39 PM.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

    I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

    I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

    I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

    I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

    Active thread warnings:

    This thread is awful close to a "WoW is Dead/Dying" thread, but I've opted to live it open for constructive state of the game discussion. But the weapons-grade takes and infighting need to settle down. Be civil with one another going forward.
    Your experience is dramatically different to mine....

    Cities are full. Groups for everything are there. Even the maw is full of people.
    There is not less to do than the last two expansion. Just less you HAVE to do.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Your experience is dramatically different to mine....

    Cities are full. Groups for everything are there. Even the maw is full of people.
    There is not less to do than the last two expansion. Just less you HAVE to do.
    Less that YOU have to do was somebody else's reward from content they would have pursued. The lesson that they learned from WoD was that content without reward may as well not be content at all. They seem to have forgot this. Mind you their was nothing you HAD to do even in Legion it was all in your heads and you whined to the developers when you really should have sought out the assistance of a therapist. The developers are apparently incredible sensitive to this concern (they're all raiders with full time careers i guess) so daddy developer decided to hold your hand instead.

    If I said that raiding was forced content because of the rewards being too compelling that I was "forced" to pursue it to continue progressing my character not a single one of you lot would expect raids should be gutted of reward.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2021-03-21 at 07:46 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Basically nobody would do the maw which is fine as far as I'm concerned because that place is awful. I actually tend to agree multiple paths towards the same reward is a fantastic idea. So let's put mythic raid gear on a vendor for valor points. After all we wouldn't want anyone to feel compelled to do content they don't like.
    There are issues that comes with taking higher end rewards and moving them to lower end rather then the other way around...

    It creates massive barriers to entry for new players if you start to hand out mythic raid gear. It would impose a even more brutal form of raider io then we have now. Its doable but it actively harms players outside of established guilds.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by probert View Post
    Bellular, Asmongold, Preach... they've all called out this expansion as being pretty soulless.
    Ha!

    Quote Originally Posted by probert View Post
    Nothing for casuals to do, shit raid tier, wonky loot system. The gating is *incredibly* transparent, Blizzard spreading too little content over too long a period of time. The Story, somehow, is MORE shit than BFA.

    its the first time we've seen two bad expansion in a row, its very clear Blizzard has lost its mojo.
    Let me be clear, these streamers play more Wow per -DAY- than I am able to do in a week. I do not take their particular concerns to be valid in any way---it is pretty clear that you're going to be bored with something if that is all you do all day long catering to slavering fans who demand your presence.

    I like the story; I think it's pretty solid and has a lot of places to go. This expansion is not "bad" in the sense of WoD or Cata (or even BfA) because
    a) it's still on the opening patch
    b) there aren't any "infinite grind" systems that provide advantages to people who play 24 hours a day.
    c) the story is interesting and new
    d) Nathria is a nails-hard raid with lots of mechanics, like a full-raid version of Crucible of Storms, the most woefully underrated raid in WoW history.

    So Preach and Asmongold and Bellular and whoever can shove off and go hate wank with their cultists.
    Last edited by Steelangel; 2021-03-21 at 07:48 PM.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    There are issues that comes with taking higher end rewards and moving them to lower end rather then the other way around...

    It creates massive barriers to entry for new players if you start to hand out mythic raid gear. It would impose a even more brutal form of raider io then we have now. Its doable but it actively harms players outside of established guilds.
    They have fairly well established catch up mechanics for new players and alts for that matter. Raider IO exists in part because m+ tuning is incredible punishing and restrictive. Thats easily solved. Nerf m+.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    They have fairly well established catch up mechanics for new players and alts for that matter. Raider IO exists in part because m+ tuning is incredible punishing and restrictive. Thats easily solved. Nerf m+.
    It would still create a far more brutal raider io that would spread into deeper parts of the game. People look at loot and see that as the key to doing well in the game but its not that big of a step. Loot isn't something players who "made it" even actively consider unless they are really min maxing to push CE. Gear just kinda comes to you if you know how to play.

    If everyone suddenly has mythic gear everyone is going to start filtering groups harder then ever before as they become more and more paranoid over who can play and who can't.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    There are issues that comes with taking higher end rewards and moving them to lower end rather then the other way around...

    It creates massive barriers to entry for new players if you start to hand out mythic raid gear. It would impose a even more brutal form of raider io then we have now. Its doable but it actively harms players outside of established guilds.
    There are already massive barriers of entry. Raiderio and such already exist and are doing their work. Would be nice to have something decent to work toward while I'm waiting in LFG getting rejected for the 800th time.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Less that YOU have to do was somebody else's reward from content they would have pursued. The lesson that they learned from WoD was that content without reward may as well not be content at all. They seem to have forgot this. Mind you their was nothing you HAD to do even in Legion it was all in your heads and you whined to the developers when you really should have sought out the assistance of a therapist. The developers are apparently incredible sensitive to this concern (they're all raiders with full time careers i guess) so daddy developer decided to hold your hand instead.

    If I said that raiding was forced content because of the rewards being too compelling that I was "forced" to pursue it to continue progressing my character not a single one of you lot would expect raids should be gutted of reward.
    But there is reward. For everything. Thogast could use a bit more.
    Content does not need iLvl or power gain behind it all the time.
    Your lesson learned from WoD was put into something on the opposite end in Legion and Bfa where, if you wanted to stay current you had to do tons of stuff each week just to be able to compete.

    I am a happy mythic raider who does not have to deal with shit like artifact power, islands and whatnot anymore. Log in. Raid. Done. You can do the same with PvP and Mythic+. If you want do do more. Do more. The content is there.

    Stop that "it was in your heads" bullshit. Of course you don't have to do anything. No one froces you to play wow. Nothing is forced. But it was required to reach certain goal.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    It would still create a far more brutal raider io that would spread into deeper parts of the game. People look at loot and see that as the key to doing well in the game but its not that big of a step. Loot isn't something players who "made it" even actively consider unless they are really min maxing to push CE. Gear just kinda comes to you if you know how to play.

    If everyone suddenly has mythic gear everyone is going to start filtering groups harder then ever before as they become more and more paranoid over who can play and who can't.
    If the tuning didn't require it it would not. Simple as that.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #240
    I played SL when it first launched. Got really psyched up for the Maw intro quest, did Bastion, got a little bit into Maldraxxus...then got bored. I've leveled professions, did old raids...anything but current content. Sitting at level 55 in Maldraxxus and not motivated to continue on. It does seem rather dull and content-less since launch but I chuck it up to the pandemic and stuff. I've been playing Fortnite with my kid to pass the time and when we're done I think "Maybe I should log onto WoW and finish up to at least 60, maybe I'll get interested again." Then I just turn off the monitor and go to sleep. Almost 17 years of WoW (2004 to now) and I'm a tad burned out of the leveling, rep, and power grinds. I'm still subbed but I can't find a reason to force me to log in.

    1 reason is there's no flying. That's just a complete turn off for me. And now that I'm waaaaaaaay behind in the Covenant grind, it'll be longer until I can get flying in 9.1. I'm sure I'll get back into it but it's such a chore and not fun for me.

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