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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by SirFinlot View Post
    It's spring time. Lockdown is being relaxed a bit.
    Why would anyone rot in front of pc for 1% damage increase when they can go out.
    I don't know, same reason as why we "rotted in front of our pcs" the last 30 years?

  2. #102
    I 100% agree and I have no idea why so many people in here defend it. I've been playing since Classic, and not once has it felt like the end of an expansion in the very first patch.

    Can't even tell what exactly it is - it's not only that there's been no new content for so long and we know we'll still have to wait a few months. Somehow it feels like the content that is there is only meant to "hold you over", if that makes sense. It doesn't feel like something you want to experience. It's just there to pass the gap towards the "real" content. But at the same time this is supposed to be the real content.

    It just feels... bad. Really, really bad.

  3. #103
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    BFA and Legion 4 months in I recall still being very packed and tons of players on. But Shadowlands feels different now.

    Plus wasn't 7.1 and 8.1 patches both released already by this time in both those expansions?
    7.1 yes, but it didnt have nighthold, nighthold came a fair few months after.

  4. #104
    Time works differently in the shadowlands

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

    I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

    I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

    I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

    I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.
    Have u started playing WoW recently? That happens all the time. Xpack or patch is released u have bump in activity for 2months~ then numbers get lower until next patch.

  6. #106
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    You are probably more right than you think. Looking at how long raid tiers and expansions last, we may yet again see an expansion with only two major content patches.
    But WoD even though it was short did everything right. Shadowlands has been a dumpster fire from the start. I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Have u started playing WoW recently? That happens all the time. Xpack or patch is released u have bump in activity for 2months~ then numbers get lower until next patch.
    No it doesn't.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Before: Loot was boring and slow, that was great and rewarding.
    With TF: So unrewarding and shit!
    Now: Loot is boring and slow, but now its suddenly bad and uNrEwArDiNg.

    Its like you have given up at this point.

    No, they finally made powering up slower and ungrindy so that those who got carried by titanforging and hard grind now finally realized they are shite and not good enough.

    Its not worse this expansion because gearing now is as easy as WoD and before, its just finally hit people they are more shit than they thought they are.

    Loot was slow before, it wasn't boring and raids weren't overtuned because of the top .01% of guilds complaining about not having a challenge. So gear was a reward for fun content, raids are not fun now when you have dozens of mechanics overlapping terribly in the illusion of "difficulty" when it's all about getting a good pull where things line up better. Even in WoD when Warforging was at it's prime, gear wasn't required for killing bosses, ever since Legion they've been tuning raids around having the gear instead of making the raids enjoyable and making the loot a reward. Loot used to be a reward for doing the content, now it's a required tool to get the kills, big difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee76 View Post
    Thats the problem. I experience the same as the OP. Everything seems empty, even more empty then in the time between 8.3 and 9.0.
    Maybe 15-20% of my guild is still active, even in the time beween bfa and sl there were way more guild-mates online on primetime.

    So yes, SL feels empty and bored. And a lot of guild havent cleared mythic yet. But well, my own guild is struggling to find 20 ppl fpr the raid. A lot of guilds are searching members right now.
    You are right, this is something every xpac experienced, but from my point of view, never in such doimensions.


    The problem is, there is no fun content to do, anima grind for dumb cosmetics seems not to work to0 keep the people subbed, and there is no system for char progression to keep people loggin in.
    Daily quest are a chore, even worse without flying. Torghast and Maw pointless. M+ is ok if you are into pushing or with alts, but to gear out an alt is hard. Raids are overtuned, so puggin them with alts is a chore aswell.
    But, again only my opinion, a mmo needs a healthy population. Reasons fpr players to log in. Blizzards answer is "chores, timegating and delays" everywhere. From my point of view, blizz must stop catering those "oh im just raif logging" ppl.
    I would be collecting anima happily but they really overpriced the cosmetics and underpriced the anima/WQ ratio. Anima is what blocks basically every "casual" content, both in activity and "fluff": santum upgrades, collections etc. Almost everything in this expansion feels stupidly overpriced time, effort/yieldwise. PvP gear upgrade, drops, everything. It's like wow has turned into a shitty korean mmo.
    In b4 "wOw aLwAyS hAd GrInDs"!
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-03-20 at 10:14 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Content is same as before, you just don't have endless grind and gimmicks on loot.

    If you are casual, I have quick tip for you - when next expansion will be full of grinds (that give regular people something to do, but will be hell for min-maxers) and crazy stuff like titanforging or Legion legendaries - DON"T listen to Bellurar, Asmongold, Preach. They played huge part in pointing Blizzard towards current direction. It's disgusting if they call SL "soulless" now.

    SL turned artifact power into currency for cosmetics, made it possible to get best gear (even with less regular drops, it's easy to forget that it was impossible from 7.0 to 8.2), turned 'artifact' (Renown) into 2 fast quests, changed legendaries from crazy and unfair system into fast and predictable work. On paper sounds amazing. But you had more fun in Legion, don't ya?
    I dabbled in Legion briefly at the end, but I'm only really subscribed for Classic / TBC ... i wouldn't have picked up BFA or SL otherwise (albeit with tokens).

    Last time I seriously played -- meaning raiding heroic and arena comps -- was MoP. So the present trend in WoW really holds nothing of interest to me.

    What I like is continual progression through an expansion; constant resets eliminate any interest in challenge for me. Raiding is meaningless with so many levels of progression, with the the top tier being utterly inaccessible to someone of my dedication and skill level.

    I have 250+ mounts and pets, most of which are meaningless to me post-Wrath. Transmog has ruined the game as everyone looks gonzo super powerful, where i really can't even tell what raid tier gear came from or how hard it was to achieve.

    So the 'progression' offered is mostly meaningless collectibles to the casual players.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    I would be collecting anima happily but they really overpriced the cosmetics and underpriced the anima/WQ ratio. Almost everything in this expansion feels stupidly overpriced time, effort/yieldwise. PvP gear upgrade, drops, everything. It's like wow has turned into a shitty korean mmo.
    In b4 "wOw aLwAyS hAd GrInDs"!
    Feels the same since legion from my perspective. Though I guess they found a way to bring the grind to everyone not just raiders. I like to think its because of how much the forums applauded it being applied to raiders that they did it.

    I know its just to get people playing longer though sadly.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    Feels the same since legion from my perspective. Though I guess they found a way to bring the grind to everyone not just raiders. I like to think its because of how much the forums applauded it being applied to raiders that they did it.

    I know its just to get people playing longer though sadly.
    Yeah I'm with you on that. Feeling the same since Legion.

  12. #112
    I've thought of going back to tbc... my memory has it as the best expansion but after classic I am a bit wary of it. Ive changed even if the game hasn't. After a decade of knocking out heroic raids then mythic when mythic was a thing and a dozen CEs I worry that what I found enjoyable will simply be trivial to the point of boredom now.

  13. #113
    We are in the "waiting for the next patch" lull. I started several months late and even I feel relatively caught up, but I'll see if I can complete all 4 covenant campaigns in the meantime. Not bored yet, but I can see why someone who started day one would be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Loot was slow before, it wasn't boring and raids weren't overtuned because of the top .01% of guilds complaining about not having a challenge. So gear was a reward for fun content, raids are not fun now when you have dozens of mechanics overlapping terribly in the illusion of "difficulty" when it's all about getting a good pull where things line up better. Even in WoD when Warforging was at it's prime, gear wasn't required for killing bosses, ever since Legion they've been tuning raids around having the gear instead of making the raids enjoyable and making the loot a reward. Loot used to be a reward for doing the content, now it's a required tool to get the kills, big difference.
    But loot isn't suddenly less rewarding now, with being as slow as before Legion/BfA. It is just as rewarding, but you personally think it's less rewarding. I am sure many think as you do, acknowledging that, but other people, including me are glad they made this change because loot DO feel rewarding again, gear being obsolete for the last two expansions.

    CN is overtuned compared to the intro raids the two latest expansion, yes. But CN being overtuned compared to some of the other raids the last years isn't a bad thing. It's just that people are so used to be able to overgear and overpower from grinding AP the last two expansion that makes it feel like this, because skill matters more now seeing the rental power is a lot less significant this time around.

  15. #115
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I find it funny that anytime you make a comparison, OTHER people INSERT the TERM "WoW killer". Notice how I never used that term. Other people are attached to that term and I'm not sure why, it's like a psychological thing, they probably wanna use it as a strawman is my guess, because it's easier to argue against one single thing "killing" off something so big.
    People are all about logical fallacy on this forum.

    Example: you should stop posting on these forums cuz you hate WoW!!!!! = fallacy.
    You may not have used it, but others still frequently bring it up. Even in this very thread. Like you said, people are attached to it. Even if the very idea is dumb (you wouldn't necessary kill WoW even if you did everything better) it is still a concept that will not die. So yeah I think it is worth noting that none of these MMOs are WoW killers, but they do several things better than WoW and players can and will move to them either temporarily or permanently if WoW doesn't perform as well as they want.

  16. #116
    Stood in the Fire KoolKidKaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

    I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

    I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

    I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

    I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.
    It's because this expansion has nothing to do outside of Weekly goals which can all be done on Tuesday. It's boring, it's not very rewarding, and just not fun. People have other games, also farming on classic to get ready for TBC is something a good bit of people are doing also. It's just not in a good spot right now overall.

  17. #117
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Isn't that the entire point of entertainment though? To give you a way to waste time while you are enjoying yourself? People usually only consider it a waste of time, or imply it is something bad, when they start to lose interest in the entertainment. Which is fine. But the entire point of entertainment is to create enjoyment for as long as possible. Subscription or "Service" games want to keep you playing as long as possible because that is part of how they make a revenue.

    Plus it helps with the over all health of the game when you have people playing longer because so many of these types of games have some multiplayer benefit. The more basic multiplayer games decline usually because people stop playing so match making or groups becomes harder. So it isn't a bad thing that WoW wants to extend the time you spend in the game. Is the balance always right? Nope.
    Yes I get what you are saying, but timegates, RNG drops and vendor trash were never fun. People just didn't care because they enjoyed exploring the new zones, they liked the combat, maybe even the story. They didn't mind just going to places and killing stuff.

  18. #118
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This thread is awful close to a "WoW is Dead/Dying" thread, but I've opted to live it open for constructive state of the game discussion. But the weapons-grade takes and infighting need to settle down. Be civil with one another going forward.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I find it funny that anytime you make a comparison, OTHER people INSERT the TERM "WoW killer". Notice how I never used that term. Other people are attached to that term and I'm not sure why, it's like a psychological thing, they probably wanna use it as a strawman is my guess, because it's easier to argue against one single thing "killing" off something so big.
    People are all about logical fallacy on this forum.

    Example: you should stop posting on these forums cuz you hate WoW!!!!! = fallacy.
    Way to ignore how WoW was changed into basically self sustaining model with... cata I would say? (the end of wrath with the first ever store mount, the sparkling pony). Wow is raking in a HUGE amount of money from paid services alone. And then there's the token (boosting), mounts, pets etc. Do you think wow would be "this alive" without these? If you think about it, wow doesn't even need to make too much, or too good content because the services alone can make enough money for it to be relatively healthy (read: hugely profitable). They have embraced the cyclical player bullshit to the max. Even the content release pacing and its quality/quantity was directly adjusted to it. For wow to be "healthy enough" they just need to give the playerbase "something to chew on for a while" while they spend their money on boosting and racechange and mounts and pets that brings in the REAL money.
    Before the store and the token, wow had to be good to attract players and give quality content for them in hope for them to stay subbed. With token and a store mount every 6 months and with other services they don't rely on the playerbase anymore. WoW grew another leg to stand on, in fact, it can carry the whole thing alone between expansions. Sell the most expac boxes every 2 years (which actually happens time after time after time ) -> MT services will/can carry in between.
    When Ion - I think - first ever said in WoD "There's better way to gauge player engagement than subs", when we got the tokens, is when Wow actually changed foot from relying on playerbase to relying on MTs. That's when we got the shitload of store mounts too and they stopped announcing sub numbers. It all clicks together.

    Anyone thought that selling mounts and pets and tokens would result in a better game with more budget and care and love? Hahhahahahaha.
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-03-20 at 10:58 PM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohvul View Post
    Time works differently in the shadowlands
    This.

    On a serious note, it's just one person's opinion.

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