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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    No it doesn't.
    It kinda does though. WoW turned into a below average seasonal game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    But WoD even though it was short did everything right.
    Sorry what?

  2. #122
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    The way I see it is because:

    1) CN is stupidly overtuned. Even AotC groups were wiping on Inerva or Denathrius, at least before the last wave of nerfs.

    2) M+ was castrated. It went from a completely alternative way of gearing your toons to a whack-a-mole thing that you only do to have more options in the weekly vault.

    3) PvP is mandatory if you want to gear your character at a decent pace. However, it's a 1-shot fest even worse than the "good ol' days" of Vanilla or the first two seasons of WotLK.

    4) Zones are small, hard to navigate (except Maldraxxus), and brimming with mobs if you ever dare to wander 5 inches astray from the road. World quests are long, tedious and all over the place, the effective deletion of FMW is just rubbing salt in a wound. Speaking of which, flight paths take way too long, especially since they drag your ass to Oribos first before sending you to your actual destination. Imagine if you had to go to Dalaran first just because you needed to travel from, say, Aszuna to Val'sharah.

    5) Maw and Torghast: I honestly don't know how could anyone think that this would be novel, original content. Especially since you have to rerun the latter on every single alt, it's even worse than the 8.3 legendary cloak acquisition. It also doesn't help that many legendary powers are a shameless ripoff of Legion.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But loot isn't suddenly less rewarding now
    I already explained why because loot then was just extra for killing the boss, now loot is required for killing the boss. Yes loot made the bosses easier, as they should, but it was also possible to kill the bosses without having to grind for weeks hoping everything dropped for everyone on your roster. Now several times over the last few expansions we're punished for having too much gear: few examples being: Denathrius, Xy'mox, Za'qul, and Mistress Sassz'ine. Loot should be a reward, not a requirement. When it's required and you're forced to be lucky so that your guild can progress it makes it feel less rewarding and less fun.

    Example of what I'm talking about: Most top 100 guilds killed Heroic Sinestra 25 with some members still in blues from heroic dungeons, that wouldn't be possible today.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    I already explained why because loot then was just extra for killing the boss, now loot is required for killing the boss. Yes loot made the bosses easier, as they should, but it was also possible to kill the bosses without having to grind for weeks hoping everything dropped for everyone on your roster. Now several times over the last few expansions we're punished for having too much gear: few examples being: Denathrius, Xy'mox, Za'qul, and Mistress Sassz'ine. Loot should be a reward, not a requirement. When it's required and you're forced to be lucky so that your guild can progress it makes it feel less rewarding and less fun.

    Example of what I'm talking about: Most top 100 guilds killed Heroic Sinestra 25 with some members still in blues from heroic dungeons, that wouldn't be possible today.
    The bosses are killable at really low gear levels compared to what players have now and most bosses have been nerfed multiple times.

    At some point you have to accept if you aren’t killing a boss maybe it’s a skill/strategy issue and look for how to improve.

    Or accept maybe that boss is out of reach for your team.

  5. #125
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    I wouldn't know, I play other games when I'm not captivated by WoW. If it were truly the end-patch though, I'd probably be able to play and enjoy it.
    Liberté, égalité, fraternité
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    I cackle out loud everytime I'm told that I'm "too confident" on a FACTUAL subject. I'm a neurotic S.O.B!! I'm quadruple-checking shit when most people are already busy pretending to be scholars on a subject after a quick glance-over at the correlating Wikipedia page!!

  6. #126
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    This has been the reality of the expansions since WoD was released. Tons of players come back because they bought into the hype. Then, a few months in, reality strikes and they realize that Blizz once again put little effort into the expansion, and the majority leave.

    Once the next raid drops, you'll see a flurry of activity for a few weeks, and they'll disappear again.

    Rather than demand that Blizz put in the effort that they promised with $15/mo ($20/mo if you buy via in-game gold) subscriptions, people just shrugged their shoulders and accepted it blindly.

    You'll see throughout this thread the acceptance of this new reality. Blizz learned that they can indeed cut efforts down the bone, and they'll still reap plenty of profit because of the suckers...er, loyal customers.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    And many people complained 4 months for the opening raid tier was too short.
    Now we have a 10 boss raid that is MUCH harder than EN and harder than Uldir.
    9.1 now would be terrible.
    I can only agree. I feel at least 2 more months is ez mode. Probably could take 4 months and my guild would just have started growing tired of farming mythic CN.

  8. #128
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    It kinda does though. WoW turned into a below average seasonal game.



    Sorry what?
    Wod was a solid expansion. Could it have been longer? Yes but because it was short doesn't mean it was a bad expansion. Sorry I have to translate basic english for you. Also nice edit of my comment jackass.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    It's always slower 4 months into a new content update. Always.
    I can think of 2 expansions where this was not true.

    But OP is right. I think what's wrong with WoW lately is that the game is just old. Graphically the entire game needs a revamp to bring it up to date (and no, I don't mean changing the art style) and mechanically it's essentially the same as it was in 2004. WoW has been naturally shedding players since its peak over 10 years ago as they burn out, grow up and move on, and the new generation of gamers have different expectations and a huge range of interesting games to play.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Also nice edit of my comment jackass.
    Lol what? All he did was cut the irrelevant part out, he didn't change anything about it.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Still here and still posting
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  11. #131
    That's the consequence when you design your game with extreme seasonality, attempt to solve everything with time gating and fall behind on content updates.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    The bosses are killable at really low gear levels compared to what players have now and most bosses have been nerfed multiple times.

    At some point you have to accept if you aren’t killing a boss maybe it’s a skill/strategy issue and look for how to improve.

    Or accept maybe that boss is out of reach for your team.
    It's really not lmao. I've achieved every Cutting Edge since Mists at early kill dates, the only one I didn't earn is U'unat in from Crucible of Storms. The raid is vastly overtuned, even after receiving several nerfs. The raid is tuned around having gear instead of the gear being the reward. It's not a skill issue, it's a Blizzard trying to bleed playtime out of the playerbase rather than making enjoyable content.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    It's really not lmao. I've achieved every Cutting Edge since Mists at early kill dates, the only one I didn't earn is U'unat in from Crucible of Storms. The raid is vastly overtuned, even after receiving several nerfs. The raid is tuned around having gear instead of the gear being the reward. It's not a skill issue, it's a Blizzard trying to bleed playtime out of the playerbase rather than making enjoyable content.
    I think they expected way more raiders would be doing M+ than they actually are. Some did some didn't... some only did mythics because the gear was so easy and the great vault and drop rates sucked.... complete miscalculation on the popularity of M+

  14. #134
    Done with this tier, finished all my main objectives. Now I do some keys every week and level alts but frankly i was looking forward to downing denathrius and getting into this lull. I like breaks from time to time, to level alts, do achis and play other games. Tbh i hope 9.1 comes as late as possible.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    I think they expected way more raiders would be doing M+ than they actually are. Some did some didn't... some only did mythics because the gear was so easy and the great vault and drop rates sucked.... complete miscalculation on the popularity of M+
    That's the issue, they gut M+, but also expect players to grind it out. It's absurd. First it's dropping much lower ilv than it did in the last 2 expansions and they reduce the amount of drops. I know I'm not going to waste my time grinding out M+ for a small chance of loot, First it's a chance to get the loot, then it's a even smaller chance to get the exact item you need. It's a pretty shitty system now in terms of gearing and it doesn't feel rewarding as a system so...
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    That's the issue, they gut M+, but also expect players to grind it out. It's absurd. First it's dropping much lower ilv than it did in the last 2 expansions and they reduce the amount of drops. I know I'm not going to waste my time grinding out M+ for a small chance of loot, First it's a chance to get the loot, then it's a even smaller chance to get the exact item you need. It's a pretty shitty system now in terms of gearing and it doesn't feel rewarding as a system so...
    I did not get SL until Xmas... Did doing 4 +5's give you 2, 210 items in your vault at launch ?

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    2) M+ was castrated. It went from a completely alternative way of gearing your toons to a whack-a-mole thing that you only do to have more options in the weekly vault.
    This makes sense only if you clear at least 3 bosses on Mythic raid every week or have high rating in pvp already. Otherwise, M+ Vault is still your only option for 226 gear. And frankly, I feel like i still have to do at least 4 keys a week as compared to 2 keys per week in previous expansions.

    Or did you mean you were gearing from loot from the actual dungeons? Cause that would be a lie. Only boostees were gearing there, ilvl was too low to matter, you would only farm specific pieces or hope for titanforge / corruption, but the gear itself was neigh useless. The weekly chest was all that mattered. Or did you guys forget what ilvl actually dropped from m+?
    Last edited by Loveliest; 2021-03-21 at 12:53 AM.

  18. #138
    Killed Denathrius like a month ago.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The way I see it is because:

    1) CN is stupidly overtuned. Even AotC groups were wiping on Inerva or Denathrius, at least before the last wave of nerfs.

    2) M+ was castrated. It went from a completely alternative way of gearing your toons to a whack-a-mole thing that you only do to have more options in the weekly vault.

    3) PvP is mandatory if you want to gear your character at a decent pace. However, it's a 1-shot fest even worse than the "good ol' days" of Vanilla or the first two seasons of WotLK.

    4) Zones are small, hard to navigate (except Maldraxxus), and brimming with mobs if you ever dare to wander 5 inches astray from the road. World quests are long, tedious and all over the place, the effective deletion of FMW is just rubbing salt in a wound. Speaking of which, flight paths take way too long, especially since they drag your ass to Oribos first before sending you to your actual destination. Imagine if you had to go to Dalaran first just because you needed to travel from, say, Aszuna to Val'sharah.

    5) Maw and Torghast: I honestly don't know how could anyone think that this would be novel, original content. Especially since you have to rerun the latter on every single alt, it's even worse than the 8.3 legendary cloak acquisition. It also doesn't help that many legendary powers are a shameless ripoff of Legion.
    Preach on brother. Totally agreed. Don't remind me of the stupid fucking disconnected zones and getting from zone to zone, having to fly through Oribos every freaking time, WTF takes forever to get around. And no flight whistle or equivalent. just painful to get around Shadowlands
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2021-03-21 at 01:09 AM.

  20. #140
    I’ve been enjoying the game. I log on to do the Maw for Conduit upgrades when I want to, I do Callings when I want, level alts, and I log on for raid days.
    I love the fact that I don’t miss out on things when I don’t log on to farm things like Legion and BfA required if you wanted to stay with progression raiding. The game is back to where I log on when I WANT to, not when I HAVE to.
    I’m back to where I can log off and the lay other games, spend time with family, work out, watch movies, do anything other than WoW and not worry about what I’m missing out on.
    I play because I want to.
    Honestly, I think it’s getting a little depressing that people blame Blizzard and their developers for making a game that doesn’t require you to log on all the time to not fall behind. It’s like players want to be held hostage to a specific game in the concept that anything that doesn’t involve WoW is somehow inferior.
    If you like the game, play it. If you don’t, do something else. If the game has run out of things for you to do then do something else in between the lulls; but just quit being so focused on WoW like it’s the only thing in the world to occupy your time as a hobby.

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