Why does SL feel like end of expansion time?

[Ohvul]

Time works differently in the shadowlands

[HCLM]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

Have u started playing WoW recently? That happens all the time. Xpack or patch is released u have bump in activity for 2months~ then numbers get lower until next patch.

[Depakote]

You are probably more right than you think. Looking at how long raid tiers and expansions last, we may yet again see an expansion with only two major content patches.

But WoD even though it was short did everything right. Shadowlands has been a dumpster fire from the start. I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

- - - Updated - - -

Have u started playing WoW recently? That happens all the time. Xpack or patch is released u have bump in activity for 2months~ then numbers get lower until next patch.

No it doesn't.

[Zyky]

Before: Loot was boring and slow, that was great and rewarding.
With TF: So unrewarding and shit!
Now: Loot is boring and slow, but now its suddenly bad and uNrEwArDiNg.

Its like you have given up at this point.

No, they finally made powering up slower and ungrindy so that those who got carried by titanforging and hard grind now finally realized they are shite and not good enough.

Its not worse this expansion because gearing now is as easy as WoD and before, its just finally hit people they are more shit than they thought they are.

Loot was slow before, it wasn't boring and raids weren't overtuned because of the top .01% of guilds complaining about not having a challenge. So gear was a reward for fun content, raids are not fun now when you have dozens of mechanics overlapping terribly in the illusion of "difficulty" when it's all about getting a good pull where things line up better. Even in WoD when Warforging was at it's prime, gear wasn't required for killing bosses, ever since Legion they've been tuning raids around having the gear instead of making the raids enjoyable and making the loot a reward. Loot used to be a reward for doing the content, now it's a required tool to get the kills, big difference.

[Lei]

Thats the problem. I experience the same as the OP. Everything seems empty, even more empty then in the time between 8.3 and 9.0.
Maybe 15-20% of my guild is still active, even in the time beween bfa and sl there were way more guild-mates online on primetime.

So yes, SL feels empty and bored. And a lot of guild havent cleared mythic yet. But well, my own guild is struggling to find 20 ppl fpr the raid. A lot of guilds are searching members right now.
You are right, this is something every xpac experienced, but from my point of view, never in such doimensions.


The problem is, there is no fun content to do, anima grind for dumb cosmetics seems not to work to0 keep the people subbed, and there is no system for char progression to keep people loggin in.
Daily quest are a chore, even worse without flying. Torghast and Maw pointless. M+ is ok if you are into pushing or with alts, but to gear out an alt is hard. Raids are overtuned, so puggin them with alts is a chore aswell.
But, again only my opinion, a mmo needs a healthy population. Reasons fpr players to log in. Blizzards answer is "chores, timegating and delays" everywhere. From my point of view, blizz must stop catering those "oh im just raif logging" ppl.

I would be collecting anima happily but they really overpriced the cosmetics and underpriced the anima/WQ ratio. Anima is what blocks basically every "casual" content, both in activity and "fluff": santum upgrades, collections etc. Almost everything in this expansion feels stupidly overpriced time, effort/yieldwise. PvP gear upgrade, drops, everything. It's like wow has turned into a shitty korean mmo.
In b4 "wOw aLwAyS hAd GrInDs"!

[probert]

Content is same as before, you just don't have endless grind and gimmicks on loot.

If you are casual, I have quick tip for you - when next expansion will be full of grinds (that give regular people something to do, but will be hell for min-maxers) and crazy stuff like titanforging or Legion legendaries - DON"T listen to Bellurar, Asmongold, Preach. They played huge part in pointing Blizzard towards current direction. It's disgusting if they call SL "soulless" now.

SL turned artifact power into currency for cosmetics, made it possible to get best gear (even with less regular drops, it's easy to forget that it was impossible from 7.0 to 8.2), turned 'artifact' (Renown) into 2 fast quests, changed legendaries from crazy and unfair system into fast and predictable work. On paper sounds amazing. But you had more fun in Legion, don't ya?

I dabbled in Legion briefly at the end, but I'm only really subscribed for Classic / TBC ... i wouldn't have picked up BFA or SL otherwise (albeit with tokens).

Last time I seriously played -- meaning raiding heroic and arena comps -- was MoP. So the present trend in WoW really holds nothing of interest to me.

What I like is continual progression through an expansion; constant resets eliminate any interest in challenge for me. Raiding is meaningless with so many levels of progression, with the the top tier being utterly inaccessible to someone of my dedication and skill level.

I have 250+ mounts and pets, most of which are meaningless to me post-Wrath. Transmog has ruined the game as everyone looks gonzo super powerful, where i really can't even tell what raid tier gear came from or how hard it was to achieve.

So the 'progression' offered is mostly meaningless collectibles to the casual players.

[Electric Lighter]

I would be collecting anima happily but they really overpriced the cosmetics and underpriced the anima/WQ ratio. Almost everything in this expansion feels stupidly overpriced time, effort/yieldwise. PvP gear upgrade, drops, everything. It's like wow has turned into a shitty korean mmo.
In b4 "wOw aLwAyS hAd GrInDs"!

Feels the same since legion from my perspective. Though I guess they found a way to bring the grind to everyone not just raiders. I like to think its because of how much the forums applauded it being applied to raiders that they did it.

I know its just to get people playing longer though sadly.

[Lei]

Feels the same since legion from my perspective. Though I guess they found a way to bring the grind to everyone not just raiders. I like to think its because of how much the forums applauded it being applied to raiders that they did it.

I know its just to get people playing longer though sadly.

Yeah I'm with you on that. Feeling the same since Legion.

[Electric Lighter]

I've thought of going back to tbc... my memory has it as the best expansion but after classic I am a bit wary of it. Ive changed even if the game hasn't. After a decade of knocking out heroic raids then mythic when mythic was a thing and a dozen CEs I worry that what I found enjoyable will simply be trivial to the point of boredom now.

[Powerogue]

We are in the "waiting for the next patch" lull. I started several months late and even I feel relatively caught up, but I'll see if I can complete all 4 covenant campaigns in the meantime. Not bored yet, but I can see why someone who started day one would be.

[Doffen]

Loot was slow before, it wasn't boring and raids weren't overtuned because of the top .01% of guilds complaining about not having a challenge. So gear was a reward for fun content, raids are not fun now when you have dozens of mechanics overlapping terribly in the illusion of "difficulty" when it's all about getting a good pull where things line up better. Even in WoD when Warforging was at it's prime, gear wasn't required for killing bosses, ever since Legion they've been tuning raids around having the gear instead of making the raids enjoyable and making the loot a reward. Loot used to be a reward for doing the content, now it's a required tool to get the kills, big difference.

But loot isn't suddenly less rewarding now, with being as slow as before Legion/BfA. It is just as rewarding, but you personally think it's less rewarding. I am sure many think as you do, acknowledging that, but other people, including me are glad they made this change because loot DO feel rewarding again, gear being obsolete for the last two expansions.

CN is overtuned compared to the intro raids the two latest expansion, yes. But CN being overtuned compared to some of the other raids the last years isn't a bad thing. It's just that people are so used to be able to overgear and overpower from grinding AP the last two expansion that makes it feel like this, because skill matters more now seeing the rental power is a lot less significant this time around.

[Wangming]

I find it funny that anytime you make a comparison, OTHER people INSERT the TERM "WoW killer". Notice how I never used that term. Other people are attached to that term and I'm not sure why, it's like a psychological thing, they probably wanna use it as a strawman is my guess, because it's easier to argue against one single thing "killing" off something so big.
People are all about logical fallacy on this forum.

Example: you should stop posting on these forums cuz you hate WoW!!!!! = fallacy.

You may not have used it, but others still frequently bring it up. Even in this very thread. Like you said, people are attached to it. Even if the very idea is dumb (you wouldn't necessary kill WoW even if you did everything better) it is still a concept that will not die. So yeah I think it is worth noting that none of these MMOs are WoW killers, but they do several things better than WoW and players can and will move to them either temporarily or permanently if WoW doesn't perform as well as they want.

[KoolKidKaos]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

It's because this expansion has nothing to do outside of Weekly goals which can all be done on Tuesday. It's boring, it's not very rewarding, and just not fun. People have other games, also farming on classic to get ready for TBC is something a good bit of people are doing also. It's just not in a good spot right now overall.

[Wangming]

Isn't that the entire point of entertainment though? To give you a way to waste time while you are enjoying yourself? People usually only consider it a waste of time, or imply it is something bad, when they start to lose interest in the entertainment. Which is fine. But the entire point of entertainment is to create enjoyment for as long as possible. Subscription or "Service" games want to keep you playing as long as possible because that is part of how they make a revenue.

Plus it helps with the over all health of the game when you have people playing longer because so many of these types of games have some multiplayer benefit. The more basic multiplayer games decline usually because people stop playing so match making or groups becomes harder. So it isn't a bad thing that WoW wants to extend the time you spend in the game. Is the balance always right? Nope.

Yes I get what you are saying, but timegates, RNG drops and vendor trash were never fun. People just didn't care because they enjoyed exploring the new zones, they liked the combat, maybe even the story. They didn't mind just going to places and killing stuff.

[Aucald]

This thread is awful close to a "WoW is Dead/Dying" thread, but I've opted to live it open for constructive state of the game discussion. But the weapons-grade takes and infighting need to settle down. Be civil with one another going forward.

[Lei]

I find it funny that anytime you make a comparison, OTHER people INSERT the TERM "WoW killer". Notice how I never used that term. Other people are attached to that term and I'm not sure why, it's like a psychological thing, they probably wanna use it as a strawman is my guess, because it's easier to argue against one single thing "killing" off something so big.
People are all about logical fallacy on this forum.

Example: you should stop posting on these forums cuz you hate WoW!!!!! = fallacy.

Way to ignore how WoW was changed into basically self sustaining model with... cata I would say? (the end of wrath with the first ever store mount, the sparkling pony). Wow is raking in a HUGE amount of money from paid services alone. And then there's the token (boosting), mounts, pets etc. Do you think wow would be "this alive" without these? If you think about it, wow doesn't even need to make too much, or too good content because the services alone can make enough money for it to be relatively healthy (read: hugely profitable). They have embraced the cyclical player bullshit to the max. Even the content release pacing and its quality/quantity was directly adjusted to it. For wow to be "healthy enough" they just need to give the playerbase "something to chew on for a while" while they spend their money on boosting and racechange and mounts and pets that brings in the REAL money.
Before the store and the token, wow had to be good to attract players and give quality content for them in hope for them to stay subbed. With token and a store mount every 6 months and with other services they don't rely on the playerbase anymore. WoW grew another leg to stand on, in fact, it can carry the whole thing alone between expansions. Sell the most expac boxes every 2 years (which actually happens time after time after time ) -> MT services will/can carry in between.
When Ion - I think - first ever said in WoD "There's better way to gauge player engagement than subs", when we got the tokens, is when Wow actually changed foot from relying on playerbase to relying on MTs. That's when we got the shitload of store mounts too and they stopped announcing sub numbers. It all clicks together.

Anyone thought that selling mounts and pets and tokens would result in a better game with more budget and care and love? Hahhahahahaha.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Time works differently in the shadowlands

This.

On a serious note, it's just one person's opinion.

[Sentynel]

No it doesn't.

It kinda does though. WoW turned into a below average seasonal game.

But WoD even though it was short did everything right.

Sorry what?

[Soon-TM]

The way I see it is because:

1) CN is stupidly overtuned. Even AotC groups were wiping on Inerva or Denathrius, at least before the last wave of nerfs.

2) M+ was castrated. It went from a completely alternative way of gearing your toons to a whack-a-mole thing that you only do to have more options in the weekly vault.

3) PvP is mandatory if you want to gear your character at a decent pace. However, it's a 1-shot fest even worse than the "good ol' days" of Vanilla or the first two seasons of WotLK.

4) Zones are small, hard to navigate (except Maldraxxus), and brimming with mobs if you ever dare to wander 5 inches astray from the road. World quests are long, tedious and all over the place, the effective deletion of FMW is just rubbing salt in a wound. Speaking of which, flight paths take way too long, especially since they drag your ass to Oribos first before sending you to your actual destination. Imagine if you had to go to Dalaran first just because you needed to travel from, say, Aszuna to Val'sharah.

5) Maw and Torghast: I honestly don't know how could anyone think that this would be novel, original content. Especially since you have to rerun the latter on every single alt, it's even worse than the 8.3 legendary cloak acquisition. It also doesn't help that many legendary powers are a shameless ripoff of Legion.

[Zyky]

But loot isn't suddenly less rewarding now

I already explained why because loot then was just extra for killing the boss, now loot is required for killing the boss. Yes loot made the bosses easier, as they should, but it was also possible to kill the bosses without having to grind for weeks hoping everything dropped for everyone on your roster. Now several times over the last few expansions we're punished for having too much gear: few examples being: Denathrius, Xy'mox, Za'qul, and Mistress Sassz'ine. Loot should be a reward, not a requirement. When it's required and you're forced to be lucky so that your guild can progress it makes it feel less rewarding and less fun.

Example of what I'm talking about: Most top 100 guilds killed Heroic Sinestra 25 with some members still in blues from heroic dungeons, that wouldn't be possible today.