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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I wouldn't call subs into play, since 1) no one has official numbers for either WoW or its direct competition (mainly FF14 or ESO) and 2) devs have shown time and time again that they don't give a !@#$ about the number of subs, otherwise they wouldn't have designed systems like SL's which leave a sizeable portion of the playerbase out of content after a couple of months. As long as they sell mountains of tokens thanks to the widespread boosting and raid BoE's (especially in a context where PvE loot was heavily nerfed), as well as 6 months subs accompanied by some lame pet/mount/xmog, they couldn't give a flying crap about the number of subs...

    ...At least as long as the bleeding of players doesn't reach WoD levels, that is.
    Agreed. They're doing just fine still, even compared to the competition combined, They may not be killing it big time like they wre years ago, but it's still a nice cash cow to have.

    They will only make drastic change, if the sub numbers hit critical for them. I have no idea what that number is, but Blizzard absolutely has a number in mind, they don't want crossed and going lower. But I think that's still a few years away.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by luciano View Post
    I play wow to be uber-powerful and collect stuff like mounts and tier sets and right now, outside of farming the reeeeeally old raids, I am neither powerful nor am I able to farm half the old raids I want to farm. Even some that I could farm an expansion ago are now too hard for my character. They nerfed the shit out of us and they're like, HMM, WHY ARE PEOPLE LEAVING?
    I agree with you. That was one of my most favorite things to do. Go farm move in old raids with friends. We even made it a scheduled event across many servers, “mog bro” runs.

    Now it is so tedious for the previous two expansions. Forget it. That hurt.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    I agree with you. That was one of my most favorite things to do. Go farm move in old raids with friends. We even made it a scheduled event across many servers, “mog bro” runs.

    Now it is so tedious for the previous two expansions. Forget it. That hurt.
    Are they ever going to fix old Raid scaling and tune it better? Is that coming in 9.1?

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Are they ever going to fix old Raid scaling and tune it better? Is that coming in 9.1?
    no? Legion raids already have the damage multiplier, our gear will get better in 9.1 which will make it easier to solo Nighthold/Tomb/Antorus if you can't do it already

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "That's why the patch is delayed"

    Uhm...can you show me where that was stated at all?
    Huh... you want me to lay it thick huh?
    Go check when the .1 patches came out, or even how long there is between .2 and .3 patches. They are often shorter than what we are seeing here.

    We know covid cause the working from home transition which is not as efficient as having everyone in one place causing delays in production across the whole market. We know some Blizzard devs left to new studios, which has caused some turnover of resources.

    If you are expecting them to come out and admit the obvious, you don't really have realistic expectations. They never said WoD content was cut or delayed either, yet it was. There are some things that are obvious. You have to make an effort.

    Unless you are in denial... Then whatever. Your problem. I'm not here to convince you of anything. The evidence speaks for itself. If you want to pretend these aren't real, then it's your choice. You don't have to ask me for official sources that will never be shown to us, or you'd know about them already.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-03-22 at 02:58 AM.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    I injured my back recently too so I haven't been able to play WoW as much for a while. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise MMORPG wise. I picked up ESO since I could play that from the couch on my xbox with a controller and that was much kinder to my back. I quickly realized how much better that game treated me as a casual player and that the iron focus on premade long form group content while shitting on everything else is the worst thing that's happened to WoW.
    yeah slightly off topic but--back in 2005 I injured my back at work and I had had back problems before then but the injury really bumped up the pain level. ER Xray showed a bone spur shaped like a fish hook between my L4 and L5 wrapped around my spinal cord and about as thin as a sheet of paper. The injury resulted in my back swelling which resulted in said bone spur pressing against my spinal cord. Several months of rehab and direct injections into my back later I was: 1) newly married, 2) complete loss of feeling down the back of my left leg to my heel and 3) 9 neurosurgeons later and not 1 would operate on my back to remove the bone spur. It's just something I've gotta live with now. That and recovering from a heart attack in Sept of last year, COVID (twice), and prostate cancer (and subsequent removal--all clean!). Just had my 42nd b-day and seen some shit.

    back OT- I loved TBC because gearing and leveling wasn't as much of a chore as it has become. I did my 10 arena matches a week, got a piece or 2 of arena gear...I was happy. Sure, call'em welfare epics but I felt my invested time was useful in gearing up. Now? Pfft. And PvP is just a shitshow that I won't even touch it. Not even casually. So, like BFA and Legion before it, I'll gear up mostly during the last patch of the xpac when Timeless Isle 4.0 comes out.

  7. #327
    The Lightbringer Violent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArunTheRogue View Post
    It's absolute opposite on my side.
    LOL! This guy.
    "It's not the end, it's the complete beginning!" 15 years into it. (As your character is in the legit "afterlife") Hahahah!

    How do you even take yourself seriously, my dude?
    <~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.

    <~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    I mean the silent majority picked their covenants upwards of 80% all the same to min max... I don't think the silent majority is what you think it is.
    The silent majority has been unsubbed for the last two months. You have no idea what their covenant choice was.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    I injured my back recently too so I haven't been able to play WoW as much for a while. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise MMORPG wise. I picked up ESO since I could play that from the couch on my xbox with a controller and that was much kinder to my back. I quickly realized how much better that game treated me as a casual player and that the iron focus on premade long form group content while shitting on everything else is the worst thing that's happened to WoW.
    Yeah, I really like where ESO is at now - I play on PC though. It's miles ahead of WoW in a lot of categories (crafting, lore, gear stickerbook, customization, class builds, every quest voice acted) and in some cases WoW doesn't even have a comparable system (justice/thieves guild, housing). I honestly urge everyone I talk to who's not feeling WoW lately to give it a second shot but it just seems either people have sort of a Stockholm's syndrome with WoW and/or ESO left a bad first impression with it's rocky launch and they've written it off completely.

    Sort of a shame because they're doing a lot of interesting stuff there and I feel by comparison the WoW devs are phoning it in and milking the shit out of their players with complete disrespect for their time.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho21 View Post
    yeah slightly off topic but--back in 2005 I injured my back at work and I had had back problems before then but the injury really bumped up the pain level. ER Xray showed a bone spur shaped like a fish hook between my L4 and L5 wrapped around my spinal cord and about as thin as a sheet of paper. The injury resulted in my back swelling which resulted in said bone spur pressing against my spinal cord. Several months of rehab and direct injections into my back later I was: 1) newly married, 2) complete loss of feeling down the back of my left leg to my heel and 3) 9 neurosurgeons later and not 1 would operate on my back to remove the bone spur. It's just something I've gotta live with now. That and recovering from a heart attack in Sept of last year, COVID (twice), and prostate cancer (and subsequent removal--all clean!). Just had my 42nd b-day and seen some shit.

    back OT- I loved TBC because gearing and leveling wasn't as much of a chore as it has become. I did my 10 arena matches a week, got a piece or 2 of arena gear...I was happy. Sure, call'em welfare epics but I felt my invested time was useful in gearing up. Now? Pfft. And PvP is just a shitshow that I won't even touch it. Not even casually. So, like BFA and Legion before it, I'll gear up mostly during the last patch of the xpac when Timeless Isle 4.0 comes out.
    Same age as me then. It's that time in life when health problems can start creeping up on you, I've started taking care of myself a lot better since I realized that I only get the one body.

    I think the problem with gearing today is that there is no weekly checklist regardless of what content you're doing. Sure we can get iLvl200 from doing a glorified rep grind but that's over really fast and then there's nothing to do.
    Those 10 arena matches every week put you on sort of a journey where you slowly progressed your character little by little and it felt good. For a lot of players it's not really about the quality of the gear but having gear to work towards but I do understand how it can be a big problem in PvP.

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    Depends on what the casuals like to do I guess. There's an assload of Covenant transmog to collect, which is keeping me busy. Putting an alt through each Covenant is also taking me a while.
    and I thought I was slow. it took me weeks before I had my first 60. stayed on top of the campaign. meanwhile I leveled my next three doing just world quests (almost entirely battle pets) until their zone meta was full which brought them to about 58 and then did one of each dungeon/quest to hit 60. now I have 2 at 40 renown and the other 2 ~30 doing only callings and the weekly world boss. callings have an annoying amount of rng when it comes to offering renown but it still shouldn't take more than 4 weeks max doing it that way.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I honestly urge everyone I talk to who's not feeling WoW lately to give it a second shot but it just seems either people have sort of a Stockholm's syndrome with WoW and/or ESO left a bad first impression with it's rocky launch and they've written it off completely.
    That's what happened to me. I played the ESO beta and concluded that the game was shit and never looked back but after hearing good things about it ad nauseam and the base game being so cheap I thought that I'd give it a chance and was blown away. It feels like playing a real RPG, I have no idea what WoW is supposed to be these days.
    I have no idea how the endgame group PVE content is in that game and frankly I don't care since I'm not really interested in that content, especially not on console. I have done a lot of instanced PvP though and it's a lot of fun!
    Last edited by Echo of Soul; 2021-03-22 at 07:10 AM.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    The silent majority has been unsubbed for the last two months. You have no idea what their covenant choice was.
    the silent majority picks whenever covenant feels "cool " to them.

    problem with wow : those forums and streamers/youtubers is that so many people here think that you average person does like hc raiding and m +10 when relaity is only like 5% do those - while majority maaaybe picks up flowers for WQs .

    and then when game is designed solely for 5% its natural "silent majority" leaves.

    nobody sane will play this game loner then 2-3 weeks when its in current state.

    you level up , do some dungeons , lfr catch up to renown and then you can unsub because there is nothing to do for you in game.

    you can go to FF14 and have fun there - because there is plenty to do as casual player there.

    for example - can someone explain me the reason why hc dungeons dont drop like 50 VP to incentivise peopel to upgrade their armour ? why VP upgrades are locked behind +5 difficulty which only very low % in game does ?

    this is what is killing wow - catering only to hardcore playersbase.

  14. #334
    Because the itemization is crap at max level. I have 6 toons at level 60, one at ilvl 198, and yesterday I realized I did Spires of Ascension for the first time. There is NO incentive to run heroic dungeons because the loot is so bad. Also there is no meaning to do world quests because:
    1) anima rewards are puny
    2) gold rewards are a joke compared to the random items you sometimes get that are worth 2000g or more
    3) gear rewards are lower level than everything you already got
    4) world quests are a pain for anything else than a tank class (because all of them are lots of crappy mobs you have to aoe becuase they die before you can start your single target rotation)
    5) no meaning to farm gold by ah as i can just buy gold with tokens

  15. #335
    4 months tomorrow and it's a zzzz snorefest. My char is 218 since mid january, finished torghast completely including 250k phantasma achiev, twisting corridors 8, got rival in PVP and stuck around 1900 because no people to constantly play, LFG tool is cancer, not interested in m+ and raids. I barely logged in the past two weeks to get renown 40 and hand of the archon for the lulz sorry but for some reason I would grind TBC factions for items than Shadowlands atm.

  16. #336
    I just can't play Wow casually. I'm not 100% sure, why. I guess, real reason - is that I can make pause at any moment in other games and don't feel obligated to do X amount of work every day. For example I can play other games without hurting my real life, even if they take time to play. For example Terraia is very grindy game. Including my health. Because at the same time, when I start playing Wow, I start to suffer from some hypodynamia problems. It's some sort of blood pressure or circulation problems. And it takes time to recover from this problems. About a month.

    I tried to do minimal amount of content in SL. It included leveling 50-60 and getting Renown level 23. Even such minimal amount of content required too much effort from me. I even had to play during free time on work, that I usually don't do.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  17. #337
    We're on sludge MM, I mostly raid log (who needs 220 when you're full 226 ? 1 MM+ per week is enough.
    Now that I'm 40 renown with the 3 potential legs I want, I skip all the other "content", even the maw, just missing one gem

    Most of my guild do the same... IF they login for raids...

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Honestly, there's LOTS of good games and MMOs out there to pick from that all treat their customers/players far better and give a much better experience. Sure, they may not be as polished as WoW with their graphics or some little QoL snippets, but overall you'll have much more fun in a game that's trying to appeal to you if you feel that WoW has stopped.

    I think it's more Sunk Cost with WoW that keeps people playing past the time they really want to. I've wanted to get away from WoW for months now but leaving behind all I've accomplished and acquired has been difficult. Everybody deals with it in their own way.
    Honestly, i've been defending Blizzard for the most time over the years. They have, for the most part, delivered decent enough content. WoD was an exception(not counting the raids, they were good), and I feel SL is going the same route. The people that do high m+ keys and mythic raids, seems to be happy about the content. Good raid, or so I have heard.

    Problem is - Like with WoD, SL lacks depth and actual content besides the raid and now m+(since it wasnt in WoD). Its so light with relevant and fun content. Torghast is shit already, and thats supposed to carry through the whole xpac. Blizzard really let us down this time around. They gave us less loot, less fun content to do beyond raids/dungeons. Whatever content there is, is useless grinds for no apparent reason. No one should play right now and grind stuff, just unsub and wait for 9.3 or 9.2. Then everything will be handed to you. Right now theres zero insentives to stay subbed at all.

    Usually I would farm for the level 40 renown and get the title, but now I cant be bothered one bit.

    They focous on creating proper content for MDI and mythic raids always deliver. Thats what they apparently focus on. Its going to hurt them.

    Usually I would turn to pvp everytime I got bored, but thats also quite bad. Especially if you want to gear up a new char, the honor/conq farm is horrendous.
    Last edited by crusadernero; 2021-03-22 at 09:15 AM.

  19. #339
    Overall problem is with time management. Despite of being casual, I just hate, when I could play more today, but I've run out of things to do. Or I can't play right now, because group is required and it's not prime time. That's, why I prefer to always have "backup" unlimited content, like leveling. Or being able to do the same content on several alts. Like one world boss isn't enough? I have 4 alts and can kill 4 world bosses a week. But content in Wow is way too quantized and this "quantum" is way too large. I.e. if you start doing something - then you need to complete whole thing, otherwise it's useless. It's also useless, if it takes too much time to complete. For example, it would be great to level new alt for just 20 minutes a day. But 20 minutes is what? May be 2-3 quests? And how many quests are required? Hundreds? If you'd do 2-3 quests a day, it would take months to complete. It's too long and unrewarding. So, you don't even notice, how you start to play more. More, than you want. And it starts to hurt your health.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  20. #340
    It's unfair to compare WoD to SL. In SL we do have content. IT's just that those are mostly optional. I think it's a good thing. The game is what you make of it. Not having a chore list for alt is great.

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