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  1. #361
    Kinda doesn't help that WoD isn't like SL, in that "Oh yeah, an old villain "returns", or that "SL's unimportant". Uhm, no. SL's very fuckin important, and the Jailer's the main enemy of the expansion. He's also supposed to be a bigger threat than Sargeras himself...

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

    I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

    I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

    I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

    I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

    Active thread warnings:

    This thread is awful close to a "WoW is Dead/Dying" thread, but I've opted to live it open for constructive state of the game discussion. But the weapons-grade takes and infighting need to settle down. Be civil with one another going forward.
    That is not what im seeing on my server at all on thrall packed if anything to many people still playing its annoying when i get ques on it sometimes as well.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    I never get this WOD part. A lot of people seem to be contradicting their statements. I mean we know that Blizzard works on content months or even years in advance. They have some idea as to where the story is heading. For example, there is probably a team already working on the next expansion inside Blizzard. Now I wasn't around for WOD so have no idea what happened. However, I was wondering, did Blizzard cut content they were working on or just didn't invest a lot into WOD. If anything SL feels more like a "filler" expansion allowing things to happen in Azeroth and set things up. If that's the case, SL is going to be as short as WOD and limited in content.
    Yes, I believe they did have more content for WoD. Atleast was the plan to have more content and have it last longer. They obviously cut it short and delivered what they had to deliver - proper raids. They clearly saw it tanked and decided to scrap more content for it and focus on the next xpac. For the better I suppose, cause Legion was quite good.

    I have the same feeling now as back in WoD. Start off great, then quickly got boring and not worth my time at all. I've been playing on/off since vanilla, but in WoD I was offline for a looong time.Only xpac I missed most of it and by the looks of it, I didnt miss anything at all.

  4. #364
    I think they though that Torghast was going to be "unlimited content" and that on top of callings, pvp/pve weekly/daily quests, and the normal PVE/PVP content that it would keep people interested. But there's too many problems to list in the current game, and it's no surprise so many people have quit. It's pretty normal for the new expansion to bring a lot of players in then it slows patch to patch...but it doesn't have to be like that. This never happened in older expansions (pre Cata), so it's hard to say if it's just a sign of the times (way more competition now for example) or is a reflection of the game itself.
    Check out my Ret Paladin YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/VarabenGaming

    #RETPRESENT

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by terminaltrip421 View Post
    and I thought I was slow. it took me weeks before I had my first 60. stayed on top of the campaign. meanwhile I leveled my next three doing just world quests (almost entirely battle pets) until their zone meta was full which brought them to about 58 and then did one of each dungeon/quest to hit 60. now I have 2 at 40 renown and the other 2 ~30 doing only callings and the weekly world boss. callings have an annoying amount of rng when it comes to offering renown but it still shouldn't take more than 4 weeks max doing it that way.
    I have a paladin and and mage at 60, both Kyrian, renown maxed, campaigns done. No raids or dungeons to speak of, except that required for the campaign. Second highest alt is 55, others are still at 51.

    I'd say I'm putting in a couple of hours per week at the moment, spread over a few evenings. Collecting covenant tmog and playing through the campaigns is keeping me interested for now.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    This is because you're not on a populated server, and you're probably feeling burnout.
    I am literally playing on the biggest german alliance server and its the same for me.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I am literally playing on the biggest german alliance server and its the same for me.
    A non-English EU server is much smaller than NA megaservers. You are not on a "populated" server. I am on one of those NA megaservers. Oribos is packed at all times of the day.
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
    this thread is a waste of internet

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I dont think people are anymore. People are unsubbing left and right. I checked my friends list before my sub ran out, and there was no one online the last days. On my BLizzard launcher, only 1 person still logs into wow during the week. Sure its all anecdotal evidence, but this reminds me so much of WoD. LOTS of people playing at first, then BOOM everyone is gone.

    Most people clearly play this game on and off. New patch, sub up. When people feel "done", they unsub and wait for next patch. Blizzard clearly are happy with this, or else they would double down on creating proper content that would last. It probably helps on revenue having sub, wow token, pets, mounts, and more in the cash shop. They dont need masses of players staying subbed.
    This is exactly what happened to my friends list in classic.

    Exploded for the first few months, then everyone was gone.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I heard somewhere that they quit WoD midway cause they had no idea what to do with it.

    Also, COVID's pushed Blizzard as a whole back. I doubt SL's development is going to be hindered all that much. I've already explained how they could still fit in the next couple patches.

    "We know some Blizzard devs left to new studios, which has caused some turnover of resources." Since when has it caused turnovers? Developers have left since fuckin 2014, yet WoW's been going on for awhile now.
    https://www.dreamhaven.com/about

    Also that designer that made the covenant ability FX's and left to Riot before release. I cba with looking for the link, keep up with the news.

  10. #370
    The Lightbringer Violent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    That is not what im seeing on my server at all on thrall packed if anything to many people still playing its annoying when i get ques on it sometimes as well.
    You're not going to find a sever with ZERO people on it, Why do you think Blizzard has been merging realms for the last 4 years??
    That's right, to make it a GRAND illusion that there isn't 8 Million wow players anymore.

    "My server is connected with 5 others servers, but IN MY OPINOIN, it's not dying at all, just look at all these players!"

    So they mash you all in one place and you think the world is "BRIMMING" with players, huh?
    Some of you people are so deluded, it's not even fun trying to discuss anything with you. Because you just "don't" get it.
    <~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.

    <~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Varaben View Post
    I think they though that Torghast was going to be "unlimited content" and that on top of callings, pvp/pve weekly/daily quests, and the normal PVE/PVP content that it would keep people interested. But there's too many problems to list in the current game, and it's no surprise so many people have quit. It's pretty normal for the new expansion to bring a lot of players in then it slows patch to patch...but it doesn't have to be like that. This never happened in older expansions (pre Cata), so it's hard to say if it's just a sign of the times (way more competition now for example) or is a reflection of the game itself.
    It did happen, but got masked by how many new subs it kept getting.

    Which is why when they posted the stats in Cata that WoW had over 100 million players over its life but only 12 million max concurrent players.

    WoW bled players hard, and eventually you ran out of new ones. And the Asian payment model of “pay per hour and count of a sub didn’t hurt.”

    WoW is in the end phases of the product lifecycle graph where the population is low. We get some spikes in expansion releases, and a little on patches, due to some hype and players getting nostalgic for when they used to play and enjoy WoW.

    Also, is an MMO (or any game) expected to be more popular the longer it goes? 16 years? 20? 40?

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    I never get this WOD part. A lot of people seem to be contradicting their statements. I mean we know that Blizzard works on content months or even years in advance. They have some idea as to where the story is heading. For example, there is probably a team already working on the next expansion inside Blizzard. Now I wasn't around for WOD so have no idea what happened. However, I was wondering, did Blizzard cut content they were working on or just didn't invest a lot into WOD. If anything SL feels more like a "filler" expansion allowing things to happen in Azeroth and set things up. If that's the case, SL is going to be as short as WOD and limited in content.
    The problems with these statments of Blizzard's workfow is the same as with things like your horoscope. They are vague rubbish you say, because they are technically true for everyone and sound good, because someone is always spinning some ideas early in a dev team, but the overall production beginns way later. This is an almost univeral truth in all jobs where you can claim something like a development process (at least from the PoV of project management), be it a software or hardware product.

    The recent beta phases have shown that Blizzard's workflow is way more short term than what people would think by the statments you mentioned, which btw have been stated years ago when the team was a different one. You also can't really develop another expansion in parallel with the exception of some concepts (concept art) and universal components (art assets), because the direction of the current expansion is clearly trial and error systems wise and we've seen Blizzard even admit that they react to the role of certain characters according to feedback. It would be simply pointless to spin the next expansion's changes when they completely contradict what the current design team is doing for the current expansion.

    WoD was alot of things. Blizzard saw subscriptions skyrocket by almost 3 million after it went down alot throughout MoP. But that didn't last apparently and Blizzard realized that the expansion wasn't capturing people as much as they thought (imho it was a badly timed movie tie-in that backfired). One major patch (!) was a bit of social media integration for example. Blizzard went all out with the development for Legion, but like everytime Blizzard does that, they need to practically abandon the current expansion because their resources are alot more limited than we acknowledge. The content draught at the end of every expansion is the result of these limited resources. They might have had more content planned, like the Island to the north that was often talked about, but at the end of the day Blizzard delivered the minimum for raiding focused on the next expansion.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    https://www.dreamhaven.com/about

    Also that designer that made the covenant ability FX's and left to Riot before release. I cba with looking for the link, keep up with the news.
    Lots of developers have done stuff that’s crucial to the game. Do you know how many PvP and PVE developers have left? Yeah, PVE and PVP are still just fine...

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    You're not going to find a sever with ZERO people on it, Why do you think Blizzard has been merging realms for the last 4 years??
    That's right, to make it a GRAND illusion that there isn't 8 Million wow players anymore.

    "My server is connected with 5 others servers, but IN MY OPINOIN, it's not dying at all, just look at all these players!"

    So they mash you all in one place and you think the world is "BRIMMING" with players, huh?
    Some of you people are so deluded, it's not even fun trying to discuss anything with you. Because you just "don't" get it.
    While connected realms are part of it, if we are talking about US-Thrall then it's also simply one of the largest servers in the region. These large servers are spots of congregation, because more and more people flee to these because the smaller ones can't sustain viable endgame groups - even when connected with other realms. So people who play there will probably never feel the population is dwindling, because they constantly get the remnants of the servers where alot of people quit. So the large ones remain somewhat stable (and get totally drowned in players when the next big thing is released) while the smaller ones suffer the loss of people leaving twice, because of the ones that quit and those that transfer.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    If you are casual, I have quick tip for you - when next expansion will be full of grinds (that give regular people something to do, but will be hell for min-maxers) and crazy stuff like titanforging or Legion legendaries - DON"T listen to Bellurar, Asmongold, Preach. They played huge part in pointing Blizzard towards current direction. It's disgusting if they call SL "soulless" now.
    It would help the game a lot if people would actually care more about streamers that actually play the game beyond average instead of giving the drama content streamers so much attention.

    I like the game a bit more if there is more to do and the participation and active playerbase mid-content in LEGION showed that a big part of the community was playing the game more and in the end for any MMO, thats all there is. It doesnt matter if the content is 10/10, if the balance is 10/10, the only thing that matters if people actually play the game.

    I enjoy the game either way, its still better as anything else on the market and if there is a low maintenance expansion, who cares I can just add some old content achievements or reputation grind to the mix.
    -

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    You're not going to find a sever with ZERO people on it, Why do you think Blizzard has been merging realms for the last 4 years??
    That's right, to make it a GRAND illusion that there isn't 8 Million wow players anymore.

    "My server is connected with 5 others servers, but IN MY OPINOIN, it's not dying at all, just look at all these players!"

    So they mash you all in one place and you think the world is "BRIMMING" with players, huh?
    Some of you people are so deluded, it's not even fun trying to discuss anything with you. Because you just "don't" get it.
    Your a fool i have a hard time finding people out of my server i hate the people who play on it i wish it was Other servers.thrall has always been a huge server wtf are you talking about here fool!
    Last edited by Lurker1; 2021-03-22 at 04:38 PM.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    This is exactly what happened to my friends list in classic.

    Exploded for the first few months, then everyone was gone.
    Yeah, and? That might be for very different reasons than why people quit retail. Leveling is probably a big hurdle in classic, while thats a non issue in retail.

  18. #378
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Yeah, I getcha. The issue is that SL's not a filler expansion. Lore-wise, it's arguably the most important WoW expansion next to Legion, and arguably more-so than Wrath.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, them pulling a WoD here would be fucking weird.
    They pulling a WoD was weird there as well. These things are rarely planned. I mean storywise it was important. It set up the return of the Legion in full force. What Blizzard didn't realize, I think, is that people were already sick to death of orcish drama as that was Cata and MoP already. And with the WarCraft movie released, nobody who cared about the lore needed a refresher of who the more important clan leaders were. So when they saw how people didn't much care for the basic premise, they decided to wrap it up ASAP and focus on Legion, the fanservice expansion.

  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It might also be that as a nation Japan actually acted swiftly and responsibly to covid early allowing for a swift transition. While the US early reaction was criminal.

    As with communication to the player base I have seen both Yoshi and the wow dev teams point out similar things but get different responses. Yoshi pretty much telling people to take breaks cause the game will always be there gets praise. Wow dev saying they make the game based around players taking breaks got them panned.

    Yoshi points out that with the stat squish farming old stuff will be difficult people are OK with mostly. Blizz state it and they're attacked for even doing a squish and things being more difficult. So while people in ffxiv are OK with Yoshi stat squish response meaning he won't have to find ways to fix it. Wow dev team has to find ways to fix it because "getting gear to help" was treated as an insult. Even though in the end it was the same response.
    Part of that is he's very open with potential megatives while blizz devs keep saying shit like "things won't change don't worry"

    Also running old contents not as big in ffxiv..not solo at least since you can just que for any old content no matter your level

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    BFA and Legion 4 months in I recall still being very packed and tons of players on. But Shadowlands feels different now.

    Plus wasn't 7.1 and 8.1 patches both released already by this time in both those expansions?
    Legion was packed, BFA was dead.

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