What if WoW was slower, harder and more tactical. And full of adventure.

[Akka]

1. Yes, typical gamers are not like they were 10 years ago. They have full time jobs, have families. They don't have the time to sink 10+ hours a day into a game.

So video games were invented 10 years ago, only revealed to the select generation from 2010 and nobody else started to play since then ?

[Myradin]

So video games were invented 10 years ago, only revealed to the select generation from 2010 and nobody else started to play since then ?

I think its more being a gamer as an adult became more of a thing.

[Elias1337]

I think its more being a gamer as an adult became more of a thing.

No it really didnt.

[Kalisandra]

1) Slowdown the game. Make everymob in game threat. Majority of mobs have some spells. Make them deadly so players need to counter them.
Make players to use CC spells like polymorph/fear if they are attacked by multiple mobs. This is what I love about classic WoW and I think retail should be inspired.

They tried this in Cataclysm. The player base was not amused, and was not happy.

2) Dungeons - make new dungeon difficulty where tactics matters. Keep mythic plus many players like it but give us alternative which is fun and tactical to optain loot that matters.
- this difficulty should be very hard where players need to cooperate and use tactics. And most importantly - not time limited.
- people need to CC mobs and use variety of tactics to clear dungeons.
- I believe dungeon finder would work.
- It would be less toxic.
- People would socialize once again. People would find new friends because they would need to communicate with each other to clear dungeon.

This would absolutely not work with Dungeon Finder. This level of play really needs voice comms and a consistently competent level of player. LFG has never been for that and the player base will not adapt. Again Cataclysm showed that.

3) Old content should scale with item level in certain way.
- This would be radical change.
- Is it good that we are able to clear every mob in old worlds in one shot? I don't think so.
- It would be great if threat were everywhere.
- Proposition. All mobs in game in each zone would be equaly deadly. This would reset in every new expaision.
- By the time players recieve new equip in current expansion, players would have growing advantage.
- Anyway, even with full end expansion gear, all mobs would be minor threat and player would not be able to oneshot them.

This is a terrible idea. In general, old content should be out-levelled and become trivial. Tune timewalking up in some cases, sure (but not in the way it sometimes is where random mob spells one-shot players - that's just dumb), but in general old content should become easily beatable.

5) This will be bery unpopular
- Give mounts benefits in their zones. For example classic racial mounts would increase speed +15% and hp +15% in Azeroth. Shadowlands mount would benefit in Shadowland zones etc.
- Introduce summon proper zone mount button.
- I think mounts are incredibly cluttered. It would be cool if most of people used racial mounts in classic bg's for example. Battle would felt like Warcraft battle.

If the buffs were smaller than that, I'd go along with this. At the same time, the various riding speed buffs you can get need to stack with the guild one (because just about everyone has it, and it makes all those other buffs worthless) or the guild one removed. And the DK and PAlly speed buffs need to stack with these buffs too. Having a +20% buff that is really +10%, and when you consider that a fast ground mount gives 200% run speed, that extra 10% speed is a relative 5% boost, which is effectively nothing. If you're flying it's even less of a relative boost.

- - - Updated - - -

And aren't battle royale games generally fast-paced?

In a fair number of them the winners are the guys who lurk and hide until towards the end, so I suppose for them most of the game is fairly slow.

[deenman]

They did with dungeons in Cata, and everyone cried about it.
So, No thank you.

the heck you talking about? cata heroics were basicaly m+ before m+, people cried because they all of a sudden introduced an extremly huge difficulty spike in dungeons vs wotlk ones...with a random que...that was destined to fail

the most interesting part about early cata dungeons was healer mana was a thing for a time

[Akka]

I think its more being a gamer as an adult became more of a thing.

Most of my guild was already working and having babies when WoW was released, and that was over 15 years ago. The whole "geeks becoming the new bosses" is from the end of the nineties, folks, people born after that time are now adults, video games are today older than TV was when video games started.
The "we were kids back then" is just a retarded argument thrown by people who think the world came into being with them, and who fail to realize that ten years before them, younger people that are now adults were discovering video games as kids too, and ten years later when they are adults, younger people are discovering video games as kids.

Dark Souls is now an "old school game" for people who start playing now. It's "a pretty recent game" for me, because my notion of "old school" goes back to the, literally, previous millenium.

[Zyrinx]

The "god killing heroes of the cosmos" angle is played, I agree

[Mic_128]

Most of my guild was already working and having babies when WoW was released, and that was over 15 years ago.

Good for you, but not as many people were in that position as they are now. It's gotten more and more common, to the point the average gamer is now 35, which was my point.

[Ajaysaki]

Pulling 10 mobs and needing perfect interrupt/stun/blind rotations while doing top tier dps is harder than spending 30 minutes on a pack killing one at a time.

I agree with this statement in theory, but in shadowlands game design it's very very easy to do because Cooldowns are so absurdly powerful, tanks and healers are so strong, we have so many oh shit buttons that actually it doesn't require half the execution you would imagine, I do think that players are to strong in relation to 'the world' and it does sap the fun out of the game a little, but this game is no longer designed for or targeted at good players, it's full of catch up mechanics and ways to get constant progress via boss nerfs and the vault / valor etc, so it makes sense that it's 'easy now.

Compare mythic + to challenge modes, if mythic + had gear scaling and everyone was target capped to 8 max and there was more diversity between the classes damage sources it would be a much better game mode to prove yourself in.

Just for context, I am a dad of 3 kids who has a full time job and I play around 18/19 in mythic +

[Azerate]

Then no one would play it.

[Razion]

This was tried in Cata and people hated it.

[Laurathansal]

What if WoW was slower, harder more tactical. But still accessible but not too time consuming.
Players are now strong like gods. Players are champions killing 90% content with aoe runs. Savers of the worlds. I don't think it's fun anymore.

Let us be adventurers. Adventurers which cooperate with each other and make new real friends.
Typical gamer is not like 10 years ago. Harder games are growing popular nowadays. For example Dark Souls, unforgivable battle royal games, esports etc.

I have some proposals I would like to know your opinion about these proposals.


1) Slowdown the game. Make everymob in game threat. Majority of mobs have some spells. Make them deadly so players need to counter them.
Make players to use CC spells like polymorph/fear if they are attacked by multiple mobs. This is what I love about classic WoW and I think retail should be inspired.

2) Dungeons - make new dungeon difficulty where tactics matters. Keep mythic plus many players like it but give us alternative which is fun and tactical to optain loot that matters.
- this difficulty should be very hard where players need to cooperate and use tactics. And most importantly - not time limited.
- people need to CC mobs and use variety of tactics to clear dungeons.
- I believe dungeon finder would work.
- It would be less toxic.
- People would socialize once again. People would find new friends because they would need to communicate with each other to clear dungeon.

3) Old content should scale with item level in certain way.
- This would be radical change.
- Is it good that we are able to clear every mob in old worlds in one shot? I don't think so.
- It would be great if threat were everywhere.
- Proposition. All mobs in game in each zone would be equaly deadly. This would reset in every new expaision.
- By the time players recieve new equip in current expansion, players would have growing advantage.
- Anyway, even with full end expansion gear, all mobs would be minor threat and player would not be able to oneshot them.

4) Focus on classic Warcraft theme.
- Do not waste old content. Timewalking is great idea, let's improve it.
- Personally, the best 30 minutes spent in Shadowlands to me was new starting zone. Really. Why? Because It gived me original Warcraft vibes. It is just a short tutorial but I love it, it felt like adventure.

5) This will be bery unpopular
- Give mounts benefits in their zones. For example classic racial mounts would increase speed +15% and hp +15% in Azeroth. Shadowlands mount would benefit in Shadowland zones etc.
- Introduce summon proper zone mount button.
- I think mounts are incredibly cluttered. It would be cool if most of people used racial mounts in classic bg's for example. Battle would felt like Warcraft battle.


I think some opinions will be unpopular among you. Lets discuss them!

I approve of all of this. I play WoW for 16 years and have played all types of content on all difficulties. I have done early heroic raiding, mythic raiding, and pushed high keys in mythic+.

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Don't let yourself be demotivated by folks who think Mythic+ is the pinnacle of dungeon strategics.

[Kyriani]

I'd argue WoW being hard and more tactical is why people quit raiding to begin with.

This is why I stopped raiding from MoP onward. The raid encounters have just gotten more difficult as time went on. The arms race between sophisticated encounter addons and encounter difficulty culminated in virtually every fight being highly mobile, with more phases, and more mechanics. It just became overwhelming and too stressful for me. Add to that the trend towards making content I don't enjoy, that's often a slog to get through and unrewarding (like most of SL's world quests for example), and it basically limits me to playing the story and unsubbing once I run out of things to do, that I want to do, that feel worth doing.

Personally Something at the difficulty level of TBC or WOTLK, with transmog, collections tab for mounts/pets/toys/etc, the more modernized graphics we have for character models and environments, and the additional races/allied races and customization, would be about what I'd really like to play. Sadly this isn't something I expect to ever see for wow's future. I'm just not the audience wow is being designed for anymore. I get some lip service with catchup, but that's about it. I have no interest in "getting better at the game" or "competing against others". I'm not looking for a challenge, I'm just looking for entertainment. And while some people find challenges entertaining, not all people do. I know I certainly don't.

[TheFirstOnes]

That’s cool. I didn’t really want to get pinged just to hear about that. But I get it.

[Electric Lighter]

So video games were invented 10 years ago, only revealed to the select generation from 2010 and nobody else started to play since then ?

A lot of people use this as a coping mechanism.

The truth is a lot of players simply are not good at the game and as it has increased in difficulty ( you only really see this in mythic though arguably some heroic raids are harder) they can no longer keep up.

Rather then sort through logs and figure this out they assume its simply people playing for longer then they are. Some people react extremely poorly when they find out they can't make the cut in mythic.

[Akka]

A lot of people use this as a coping mechanism.

The truth is a lot of players simply are not good at the game and as it has increased in difficulty ( you only really see this in mythic though arguably some heroic raids are harder) they can no longer keep up.

Rather then sort through logs and figure this out they assume its simply people playing for longer then they are. Some people react extremely poorly when they find out they can't make the cut in mythic.

Sorry, but I don't really understand the relation between my post and your answer.

[PaladinBash]

What if a game notorious for gradually gotten worse arbitrarily were arbitrarily made worse?

IDK man it's pretty much what Blizzard does so who knows.