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  1. #121
    No, but I'm fully expecting pally tanks to be meta.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by keelr View Post
    nah. It won't be super faceroll at some points (Shattered Halls on timer), but the average wow player is like 10 imes better than back then.
    This.

    They were never REALLY hard, but what has been "acceptable" in today's WoW is very different from what was "acceptable" in older WoW. Even Shattered Halls I expect people will not really struggle TOO hard with, maybe a couple wipes in the early stages as people learn how to pull it.

    But it will not take long before even that is facerollable, especially since people will know what to farm for and gear with instead of using random off pieces in the hopes it will work out for them like they did back in the day. I think the biggest limiter for most will be the daily lockout on heroic dungeons - That wasn't removed until LFG tool in Wrath lol.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-03-27 at 07:12 AM.

  3. #123
    the damage will be brutal in the beginning when you have a lot of druids and palas that didn't tank in naxx or t2, using dungeon blues, I'd wager the exact same thing will happen again where ppl will get to 70, get their heroic keys and just go straight into heroics with whatever gear they have and some ppl will be borderline unhealable. remember when ppl showed up with no gems and no enchants on their transitory dungeon gear, yep. that will happen again.

    it'll be hard, for the healers who have to pray their heals land in time. for everyone else it'll be the same as any other dungeon. the hard part is playing a healer.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2021-03-27 at 05:56 AM.

  4. #124
    Herald of the Titans
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    Seeing people in Nax gear on stream wiping on Normal id say yes, even though the average player level is higher, Heroic would still be brutal untill players get Kara+ gear.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    There were a lot of CC options that had longer cooldowns so if it got broken for whatever reason or was resisted, it made things much more difficult.

    It's also not necessarily an IQ problem, as knowing what specific mob NOT to hit took coordination and communication. Which again, isn't hard, it's just decidedly NOT faceroll easy, which is a pretty profound step up for some people.

    Downplay it all you want, but not paying attention and screwing it up can easily lead to wipes. So, yes, while it is super easy to do right, it's also pretty easy to screw it up and extremely important to do right otherwise the entire group could die.

    It reminds me of that scene in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 where Rocket gives Baby Groot the explosive with the giant, red, and easily pressed button and the only thing Baby Groot has to do is NOT hit that button...
    It didn't at all doing a 15 is harder than any dungeon in the burning crusade. All the content will be downed in days. You'd be crazy to think otherwise. its an easily learned dance.

    Your just trying to make outdated mechanics complex. There is nothing hard about ccing mobs that do nothing to stop you. Its a basic competence problem. it was hard to screw up at least compared to mythic+ dungeon. All the timer ask is that you do good damage and know the dungeon nothing else. 3 elemental shamans + tank + healer can clear any dungeon @15 or below.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  6. #126
    From what I remember they were mostly just tedious. Like Shattered Halls? Yeah fuck that - it simply was unnecessarily long drag filled with trash.

    Besides everyone and their mothers will be spamming Mechanar anyway, simply because it's quick and at some point you do it in your sleep anyway.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    the damage will be brutal in the beginning when you have a lot of druids and palas that didn't tank in naxx or t2, using dungeon blues, I'd wager the exact same thing will happen again where ppl will get to 70, get their heroic keys and just go straight into heroics with whatever gear they have and some ppl will be borderline unhealable. remember when ppl showed up with no gems and no enchants on their transitory dungeon gear, yep. that will happen again.

    it'll be hard, for the healers who have to pray their heals land in time. for everyone else it'll be the same as any other dungeon. the hard part is playing a healer.
    This is an accurate take.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    the damage will be brutal in the beginning when you have a lot of druids and palas that didn't tank in naxx or t2, using dungeon blues, I'd wager the exact same thing will happen again where ppl will get to 70, get their heroic keys and just go straight into heroics with whatever gear they have and some ppl will be borderline unhealable. remember when ppl showed up with no gems and no enchants on their transitory dungeon gear, yep. that will happen again.

    it'll be hard, for the healers who have to pray their heals land in time. for everyone else it'll be the same as any other dungeon. the hard part is playing a healer.
    “Man all these healers fucking suck at the beginning of the expansion, must have never played during classic lol” - random rogue probably

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    It didn't at all doing a 15 is harder than any dungeon in the burning crusade. All the content will be downed in days. You'd be crazy to think otherwise. its an easily learned dance.
    Nothing I'm saying refutes this.

    Your just trying to make outdated mechanics complex.
    When did I say anything about complexity?

    There is nothing hard about ccing mobs that do nothing to stop you. Its a basic competence problem. it was hard to screw up at least compared to mythic+ dungeon.

    All the timer ask is that you do good damage and know the dungeon nothing else. 3 elemental shamans + tank + healer can clear any dungeon @15 or below.
    Point to where I said it was hard. You're the one comparing it to Mythic+ here, I've never tried to make that comparison. The only point I made is that it's NOT faceroll easy and requires some level of communication and competence. You and I are on the same page here, why are you making it seem like I disagree with you?

  10. #130
    It's gonna be fun watching hunters try to CC with how it worked back then versus now XD

  11. #131
    easy by todays standards, but tedious.

  12. #132
    at first I think they will present a bit of difficulty when people are rushing in there with massively undergeared tanks. Meta comps will be demanded. After a month when everyone has gear they will be a joke and won't have to be minmaxed as much.

  13. #133
    i saw the lead tank of apes and a few others down blood furnace today on beta at level 68 . it was hard in some spots but they did it.

    i think there are other dungeons that will be tricky till people get better gear.

  14. #134
    They are way easier than a mythic 15 on retail if that says anything.
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    They are way easier than a mythic 15 on retail if that says anything.
    said no one ever, add 5 more keylevels and we are on the right track

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    said no one ever, add 5 more keylevels and we are on the right track
    So BC heroics are harder than a+20 keystone? So statistically speaking, a small percentage of the classic community will be able to clear heroics seeing how small percentage of the retail community can time a +20 ?

    Wow, that's really mind blowing. Thanks for the insight, now I am beginning to comprehend and understand just how insanely difficult BC heroics will be.
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    So BC heroics are harder than a+20 keystone? So statistically speaking, a small percentage of the classic community will be able to clear heroics seeing how small percentage of the retail community can time a +20 ?

    Wow, that's really mind blowing. Thanks for the insight, now I am beginning to comprehend and understand just how insanely difficult BC heroics will be.
    They wont be hard. You will have to worry about the tank being one shot untill he gets gear but by the time everyone is in teir4/5 gear they are faceroll. Pally tanks will be everywhere this time around which makes them even easier. If we are using retail level it would be like 180 geared players trying to clear 10s. Then get 226 and it still be a 10.

  18. #138
    Shiiit. I remember being a scrub Warlock at 70 that didn't have the succubus pet. Walked into Shadow Labs with FEAR on point. Would fear fuckers all over the place and into other packs. Takes a lil longer, but even then it was more than doable.

    I had no problems being a new player in TBC doing it. Shattered Halls is the only one I see people being 'weird' about. It was the only one I had to take seriously for that Champion of the Naruu title.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    said no one ever, add 5 more keylevels and we are on the right track
    Considering they’re being done on beta at 68 by people in T3 gear, I’m gonna say you’re wrong.

    They’ll be tedious at best for a few weeks until the gen pop is moderately geared for kara. Then they’ll be spam fests that we do daily for badges/nethers. There will be a few we avoid pugging.
    Last edited by Prag; 2021-04-04 at 10:36 PM.

  20. #140
    yeah with gear it gets easier again, in hindsight I remember the release heroics and they were kinda, over tuned since most tanks didn't have t3. this time it should be easier? heroics probably aren't getting rolled back to their initial state where some abilities probably had really shitty overlap. you had specific mobs hit really hard like the shadow fiend looking mobs in arcatraz and the rogues in shadow labs just sneak up on your healer and one shot them. there are various places and various packs of mobs that were kinda shit, the mobs in mana tombs i remember could spam that freaking immolate and destroy ppl extremely quickly. every heroic had one or two really shitty pulls or a boss that, was kinda sketch the first few times.

    the weird thing is that it is easier than mythic+ but the classes themselves aren't as versatile as they are in retail so you don't really have lots of oh shit buttons and multiple instant cast heals. that kinda gives it, its own unique challenge. everyone gets a few more buttons in BC which does flesh everyone out a bit more but its still several expansions away from m+
    Last edited by Heathy; 2021-04-04 at 10:39 PM.

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