Why Does Completing an M+5 Give Us Raid Quality gear ?

[MrLachyG]

I hate the existence of sales of boosting so much.

if I'm ever feeling down I cheer myself up by going to the group finder and reporting every single advertisement

[Kumorii]

The reason is probably because blizz just doesnt want to balance around it, they could for sure, but right now they balance the content assuming people get weekly upgrades + a fixed max ilvl of 226 that drops from Mythic Castle Nathria, 2100-2400 rating etc, but if they implemented what you are saying, can you imagine how hard the raid would have to be to compensate for the extra 10 ilvls over mythic? people would be tackling the raid with 236 gear and 243 weps, and they would have to tune it accordingly, and tbh nerfing the content can only take you so far, even if some bosses are in a wheelchair at this point, and i assume they just wanna avoid this.

The issue with this also lies in that as it is raiding is extremely underwhelming compared to mythic + and specially pvp gearing, pvp gearing is stupidly broken atm, everyone in our raid pushed to 1800 rating as a minimum, no joke, just cause of how broken the pvp gearing is atm.

The thing is, you don't have to give higher ilvl from either mythic or whatever rating gives 226.
226 can still be the ceiling.

You can even make it so that HC raids doesn't give 226 from weekly, but instead 220. Which is in between.
Also, the idea isn't to BALANCE content around getting higher ilvl from the vault, because the idea of getting HIGHER ilvl from the vault is to NERF content over time to slowly break down hurdles. To give a sense of progression, not gear wise but content wise.

I don't really buy the idea that it's not being able to improve your gear that make people quit the game. It's that people hit a wall when it comes to content they can clear. Which is tied to gear, but not the same thing. But lets entertain the idea that we need to increase ilvl even beyond mythic raiding.
If we set that at around 230 instead, it would still give a slight help for people progressing in mythic raiding. That way they can get a choice between 230 for clearing 1-3 bosses and a 220 item from HC. Which are higher than their 213 and 226 items from HC and mythic raiding specifically.

As you noticed the numbers with the difference isn't the same. You can make it so that it tapers of. Like easier content give +10 ilvl but is still way lower than the ceiling. The higher content you do the less of a gain from the vault you get, as with my example the vault reward is +4 ilvl. It sort of tapers off the higher up you get.

Anyway, this is just if we HAVE to increase ilvl for highest ranking in pvp and mythic raiding. Which I don't agree we have to. Doing things the same everywhere just because it's the "obvious" way which is "if we increase this, we have to increase that" even though as you say that would just throw out balancing is just bonkers to me. Since we agree on that it would probably hurt the balancing, we can just not do that.

The entire point of my idea is the nerf content over time for players who are progressing through it. Not to make a new ilvl ceiling of gear and adjust difficulties based on the new ilvl, which would defeat the entire purpose of it.

[VinceVega]

It is funny you say that the closest a casual LFR runner or world content player gets is 207. Without a chance to upgrade.

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I hate the existence of sales of boosting so much.

Well yeah. Open world content and LFR is... even less than "not that great". You can do both of those while ignoring half of your abilities. These are not even entry level endgame content.
If you only do those... why do you want even better gear? You clearly have no interest in endgame. (buy you i don't mean you specifically)
The only thing you get by higher difficulties is better iLvl. They allready took out special mythic sets as people complaint they can't get them immediatly.

When i was a heroic raider only i knew i won't get mythic gear. And i was ok with that. Why would i get it?

[Gaidax]

Take a deep breath and maybe rest some or do something else. You seem a bit stressed. OP simply asked a question.

OT:
As said before m+ is spamable so if you work yourself up in difficulty then you can get full high ilvl gear quicker than from raid. On the flippside, mythic raids rewards higher ilvl than m+ so with a guild who trade loot more often than a pug, you might be able to gear up with 226 gear faster than someone doing only m+.

Pick where to go in order to improve your character basically.

There is nothing to take deep breath about, it's yet another shitty topic by same OP about same shit complaining about them "dirty casulz" getting welfare gear. As if frikkin' ilvl 210 item once per week is some game breaking thing that totally should have everyone pull pitchforks out.

Any reasonable person would just shrug and laugh. Waw, you can get an item couple ilvls higher than LFR and World Boss crap once per week. All them evul casulz running with them ilvl 210 itenz totally threaten my tiny willy. Call the waaaambulance.

Why them casulz get it? Because why not. It's OK to have some gear progression for casuals too. It's not like they get frikken' mythic Dena items for logging in once a week.

[chiddie]

There is nothing to take deep breath about, it's yet another shitty topic by same OP about same shit complaining about them "dirty casulz" getting welfare gear. As if frikkin' ilvl 210 item once per week is some game breaking thing that totally should have everyone pull pitchforks out.

Any reasonable person would just shrug and laugh. Waw, you can get an item couple ilvls higher than LFR and World Boss crap once per week. All them evul casulz running with them ilvl 210 itenz totally threaten my tiny willy. Call the waaaambulance.

Why them casulz get it? Because why not. It's OK to have some gear progression for casuals too. It's not like they get frikken' mythic Dena items for logging in once a week.

Also, there will ALWYAS be people that spam ANY content because there is no cap on how many hours you can play per week/day, in a gear based game like this you cannot perfectly balance rewards for ppl that play 10 hours a week and ppl that play 30 hours a week.

I don’t see issues in casuals getting one “easy” 210 piece per week, by the time they will be full 210 the season will end and the wheel will start running again.

[Lochton]

Well yeah. Open world content and LFR is... even less than "not that great". You can do both of those while ignoring half of your abilities. These are not even entry level endgame content.
If you only do those... why do you want even better gear? You clearly have no interest in endgame. (buy you i don't mean you specifically)
The only thing you get by higher difficulties is better iLvl. They allready took out special mythic sets as people complaint they can't get them immediatly.

When i was a heroic raider only i knew i won't get mythic gear. And i was ok with that. Why would i get it?

This is just flowing into arguments people have in two other threads.

For me, getting better gear means handling current content easier on, as well as being able to handle older content easier. I'm not advocating for better gear to drop really but I found it stupid to limit the upgrade function to Mythic+ only. Giving the ability to upgrade world content gear isn't even harming anyone as we are rewarded so little Valor with callings compared to Mythic+ in the first place. For that matter, giving Valor for world content is weird if world content players can't use it anyways.

I used to love Warforged because it gave world players a chance of upgrades but others complained that it basically affected their min/max'ing.

As for special designs, should be permitted to be reached by people doing that content. If you aren't doing that content, then special designs aren't for you.

[VinceVega]

This is just flowing into arguments people have in two other threads.

For me, getting better gear means handling current content easier on, as well as being able to handle older content easier. I'm not advocating for better gear to drop really but I found it stupid to limit the upgrade function to Mythic+ only. Giving the ability to upgrade world content gear isn't even harming anyone as we are rewarded so little Valor with callings compared to Mythic+ in the first place. For that matter, giving Valor for world content is weird if world content players can't use it anyways.

I used to love Warforged because it gave world players a chance of upgrades but others complained that it basically affected their min/max'ing.

As for special designs, should be permitted to be reached by people doing that content. If you aren't doing that content, then special designs aren't for you.

I agree in part. That valor iopen world thing is weird.
And also open world Items are just bad in general. You get the 197 at a point you won't need them anymore. Well.. unless oyu only play LFR then you actually do need them because they are better.
I think i would be ok if open world iLvl would go up to normal rading gear. But if you do that you make LFR in turn completly useless for people playing that content. If you pump up LFR iLvl you have to push up the rest. If different difficulties give the same iLvl you basically force everyone on the hogher one to continously farm the lower level to get the needed iLvl faster. No matter where you change it you f-up another part of gearing.

Right now i don't have to do open world content. And thank god for that. If the open world would give you the possibilitie to farm it for real really good gear everyone who wants to do any endgame content is forced to play it again (not forced as in gunpoint, you know what i mean)

right now everyone gets the gear they need to clear the content they do. I think it is fine as is. But i actually did not have a problem with WF/TF... it was a welcome suprise to get something better than expected once in a while. Also: I think gearing is to fast again. But that is for everyone to decide themselves^^

[Lochton]

I agree in part. That valor iopen world thing is weird.
And also open world Items are just bad in general. You get the 197 at a point you won't need them anymore. Well.. unless oyu only play LFR then you actually do need them because they are better.
I think i would be ok if open world iLvl would go up to normal rading gear. But if you do that you make LFR in turn completly useless for people playing that content. If you pump up LFR iLvl you have to push up the rest. If different difficulties give the same iLvl you basically force everyone on the hogher one to continously farm the lower level to get the needed iLvl faster. No matter where you change it you f-up another part of gearing.

I agree, hence why I thought a slow system like the Valor upgrade wouldn't harm, as points are a joke compared to Mythic+

Right now i don't have to do open world content. And thank god for that. If the open world would give you the possibilitie to farm it for real really good gear everyone who wants to do any endgame content is forced to play it again (not forced as in gunpoint, you know what i mean)

Don't worry, I understand. But this is what happened with Warforged basically. People felt forced because it COULD, with a small chance, proc and be better than a current piece of loot.

right now everyone gets the gear they need to clear the content they do. I think it is fine as is. But i actually did not have a problem with WF/TF... it was a welcome suprise to get something better than expected once in a while. Also: I think gearing is to fast again. But that is for everyone to decide themselves^^

I loved the Warforged system because as stated, world content players had a chance to see a progression in gear. And yeah, gearing felt a little sped up, the usage of the covenant tier set should've been needed a little longer but we're too late to the table with that, as another raid is to come. And I won't hold my breath but hope the Valor upgrade system becomes a world content available thing as well, doesn't have to be the same amount as Mythic+ but at least so one can get to 213. It'll take a long time for world content anyways.

[ClassicPeon]

And i would argue against it^^
Mechanic in the raid are still a good deal harder than any dungeon.

The "hard" part of Mythic+ is mostly finding people to play with. If you onyl pug. Sure then the 15 is harder than Sire with you guild.
But if you PuG you make it harder on yourself. You don't have to.

Having completed hc and dabbled in the first three bosses of mythic so far i dont really get what you are saying.

Castle Nathria has notoriously easy mechanics. Perhaps Stone Legion and Denathrius require some thinking but the rest are honestly mostly faceroll.

I dont have keystone master yet though. Its a mix of balance being horrible and my spec not performing that well in m+.

[Zephire]

There is nothing to take deep breath about, it's yet another shitty topic by same OP about same shit complaining about them "dirty casulz" getting welfare gear. As if frikkin' ilvl 210 item once per week is some game breaking thing that totally should have everyone pull pitchforks out.

Any reasonable person would just shrug and laugh. Waw, you can get an item couple ilvls higher than LFR and World Boss crap once per week. All them evul casulz running with them ilvl 210 itenz totally threaten my tiny willy. Call the waaaambulance.

Why them casulz get it? Because why not. It's OK to have some gear progression for casuals too. It's not like they get frikken' mythic Dena items for logging in once a week.

But OP doesn't express him or herself as you discribed. I just don't understand why you answer in a way that sound so harsh over something that OP doesn't say.

The question is super neutral. Nevermind, the question isn't that neutral, I just skiped the "casual" as I just figured that it was just a way to express the question. I have not taken in consideration post history of OP. Still think it's a bit harsh but yeah, I missread it a little :P

[slime]

To help you progress where ever you may be stuck.

[Aradur]

And i would argue against it^^
Mechanic in the raid are still a good deal harder than any dungeon.

The "hard" part of Mythic+ is mostly finding people to play with. If you onyl pug. Sure then the 15 is harder than Sire with you guild.
But if you PuG you make it harder on yourself. You don't have to.

Could i get an armory-link to your character please?

[VinceVega]

Could i get an armory-link to your character please?

YOu wanna know if i did Mythic+? I didn't. I have one 15. Did that quite early on. Have no big interest in it anymore... or time.

Still i did this one way before we cleared heroic. Now in 5 bosses Mythic raid.
Had my all 15 in Bfa. Maybe doing later on but probably not, because i am not a massive fan of the current dungeons.

But you have to trust me or not i don't care. But i won't put my profile on public.

[loras]

I don't get it...

When Casuals do LFR they get the ilvl of their content in their Vault

Yet when we do a M+5 which is basically 171 content, we get a 210 ivl in our vault

This seems very weird to me

Because raiding really isn't that hard, only the prevalence of leeches can make it so. Worst are the leeches with an attitude of "I am better than anyone else, WHY DOES THE GAME NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS".

If anything mythic+ and pvp should offer raid-quality rewards more readily, since even if you're crap yourself the rest of the raid can and often will make up for you if they're good.

[Temp name]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...t-Your-Content

You get tired of your other thread on this subject..?

[Frozenbro]

And i would argue against it^^
Mechanic in the raid are still a good deal harder than any dungeon.

The "hard" part of Mythic+ is mostly finding people to play with. If you onyl pug. Sure then the 15 is harder than Sire with you guild.
But if you PuG you make it harder on yourself. You don't have to.

Thats really arguable tbh, i found mythic +15s back then as in really undergeared harder than most of heroic raid, maybe Sire is harder, and im saying this as some1 that already completed all the content, right now yeah +15s are a meme and all you wanna say but back then with that crap gear i remember only Sire giving me more issues than +15s.

[Something Wicked]

Because Ion and his cronies are (literally) elitist raiders, and they wanted an easy way to gear up each time a new raid was released.

That's why.

It's also why there's such massive "exploits" (wink wink, nudge nudge) that slip into the game at the start of each expansion, last about a week or two, then get removed without any consequences to those who "exploited" (wink wink, nudge nudge) them.

[Nalam the Venom]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...t-Your-Content

You get tired of your other thread on this subject..?

They do that sometimes.

Just rephrase to see if they can spin arguments in their favor

[ellieg]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...t-Your-Content

You get tired of your other thread on this subject..?

Just make sure you report him. Dude clearly needs some sort of mental help

[Aresk]

Faster and cheaper to buy 1 Sire kill than 8 +15 boosts.

Yeah, but that sort of goes toward the point, right? Raiding requires one boost on heroic to get credit for basically the whole thing, while Mythic+ requires eight dungeons, and you have to go through the entire thing. Not to mention a M+ carry, 20% of the group is getting carried, versus in a raid, you can carry multiple people at that same 20% mark.

Honestly I don't think the mechanics are that much harder between the two, but I'm coming at this from a tank perspective. If I screw up in a raid, there's a second tank to help mitigate that for a bit. If I screw up in M+, especially if there's no one who can battle res, that can be the end of that pull. Not to mention M+ requires knowing all the pulls and timings of cooldowns a lot better than raid, where trash is mostly laughable. Maybe for DPS, who don't need Prideful routes memorized and who may have more mechanics in raid, raid is harder. *shrug*

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if I'm ever feeling down I cheer myself up by going to the group finder and reporting every single advertisement

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who does that!